toml
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by toml on Aug 8, 2022 13:42:17 GMT -8
Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17 Indeed as we are saved by his life Romans 5:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. |
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Post by civic on Aug 8, 2022 13:44:15 GMT -8
Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17 Indeed as we are saved by his life Romans 5:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Yes Tom and also justified by His Resurrection. Amen ! Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. |
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 8, 2022 14:35:12 GMT -8
well, 'saved' will be fulfilled at the Change...
meaning we are still here, imprisoned.
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Post by civic on Aug 8, 2022 14:36:43 GMT -8
well, 'saved' will be fulfilled at the Change... meaning we are still here, imprisoned. Yes in the resurrection we will have the fulfillment of our salvation . Good point , thanks ! |
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 8, 2022 14:58:06 GMT -8
well, 'saved' will be fulfilled at the Change... meaning we are still here, imprisoned. Yes in the resurrection we will have the fulfillment of our salvation . Good point , thanks ! it means being saved will be at the Change… but we know many invited do not show up… :( |
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 8, 2022 14:58:53 GMT -8
they are busy enjoying this world
and do not care
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 8, 2022 15:01:06 GMT -8
many think they got saved by being invited.
such as evangelical sects.
(whose pastors mislead the souls
to believe that…)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 11:36:51 GMT -8
in paradise, before we had to come here, our bodies were of eden nature...... Got scripture for any of that? - Can you show me where paradise is said to have existed prior to Eden?
- Can you show me where it is reported our "coming here" had to happen?
- Can you show me where something called an "eden nature" is stated in scripture (npsh does not mean eden)?
- Can you show me where is reported human bodies were made of "eden nature"?
- Can you show me where the scriptures state our bodies were created with and "eden nature" in paradise?
Please don't offer me interpretive explanations, especially not ones based on extra-biblical sources. Just show me the scripture. Let's start with what is plainly stated. thx |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 12:06:42 GMT -8
Hey, Josheb, good to see you here. Might be the first Calvinist on board.
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Post by civic on Aug 10, 2022 12:20:12 GMT -8
Hey, Josheb, good to see you here. Might be the first Calvinist on board. I invited both Josheb and His Clay two class act calvinists that I respect. I know a couple other real nice and good apologists on another forum I will invite as well. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 13:36:50 GMT -8
Hey, Josheb, good to see you here. Might be the first Calvinist on board. Thanks. I don't mean to be a stickler or split hairs but I prefer to be recognized as a monergist. I defend Calvin, but I don't entirely agree with ANYONE I have ever read (except Jesus  ). The monergist perspective includes Augustine, Luther, and all those old and new who believe conversion is solely God's doing and the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin from which we are being saved. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 14:41:15 GMT -8
It's okay to be a stickler!
Monergist it is.
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 10, 2022 14:48:13 GMT -8
in paradise, before we had to come here, our bodies were of eden nature...... Got scripture for any of that? - Can you show me where paradise is said to have existed prior to Eden?
- Can you show me where it is reported our "coming here" had to happen?
- Can you show me where something called an "eden nature" is stated in scripture (npsh does not mean eden)?
- Can you show me where is reported human bodies were made of "eden nature"?
- Can you show me where the scriptures state our bodies were created with and "eden nature" in paradise?
Please don't offer me interpretive explanations, especially not ones based on extra-biblical sources. Just show me the scripture. Let's start with what is plainly stated. thx 1. no, because paradise is eden so it wasn’t before. 2. No because it did not need to happen that we entered death. ‘Here’ is death. We left eden. 3. The nature in eden and the nature are this earth are different. God explained that to adam. That entering death would mean sweat, pain in childbirth. etc. Eden did not have those characteristics and the current earth does… we are somewhere else that is not eden which we left and where the tree of life is. So, different context and nature. One Good, before sin and corruption. The other, this one, as a result of sin. this current one is death. 4. Human bodies now die, sweat and suffer. Different characteristics. Man entered death. 5. God’s creation before the fall (described in genesis), which He declared good before adam disobeyed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 7:37:42 GMT -8
Got scripture for any of that? - Can you show me where paradise is said to have existed prior to Eden?
- Can you show me where it is reported our "coming here" had to happen?
- Can you show me where something called an "eden nature" is stated in scripture (npsh does not mean eden)?
- Can you show me where is reported human bodies were made of "eden nature"?
- Can you show me where the scriptures state our bodies were created with and "eden nature" in paradise?
Please don't offer me interpretive explanations, especially not ones based on extra-biblical sources. Just show me the scripture. Let's start with what is plainly stated. thx 1. no, because paradise is eden so it wasn’t before. 2. No because it did not need to happen that we entered death. ‘Here’ is death. We left eden. 3. The nature in eden and the nature are this earth are different. God explained that to adam. That entering death would mean sweat, pain in childbirth. etc. Eden did not have those characteristics and the current earth does… we are somewhere else that is not eden which we left and where the tree of life is. So, different context and nature. One Good, before sin and corruption. The other, this one, as a result of sin. this current one is death. 4. Human bodies now die, sweat and suffer. Different characteristics. Man entered death. 5. God’s creation before the fall (described in genesis), which He declared good before adam disobeyed. In other words, you do not have any scripture for the views previously asserted. I might ask you to provide scripture for the claims made in this post, but I know there are no such scriptures and the error of the previous posted is be replicated. For example, where does scripture state Eden is paradise? Neither do I believe you can provide any scripture stating death did not exist in Eden, especially since Paul plainly stated were sown mortal, there is no resurrection without death, and your position would mean cows, frogs, and moths are immortal. So let me ask you a pair of different questions: Do you expect other Christians in this forum to discuss with you claims and positions you cannot prove with scripture plainly stated? Is it your expectation the posters here will accept your scripture-less interpretations of scripture? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 7:41:51 GMT -8
4. Human bodies now die, sweat and suffer. Different characteristics. Man entered death. Human bodies were always going to die. Humans were sown corruptible and mortal. That was God's doing, God's design. Read 1 Cor. 15:35-54. Human bodies are now dead; "dead," not "die." Our bodies were ALWAYS going to have to transformed because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Now, if you have some scripture that actually states Adam and Eve were not made of flesh and blood prior to Genesis 3:6 then I am all eyes and ears. Do please post that text without further delay. Otherwise, some substantive adjustments are warranted. |
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). The monergist perspective includes Augustine, Luther, and all those old and new who believe conversion is solely God's doing and the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin from which we are being saved.