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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:29:03 GMT -8
Thomas knew this.... ...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works...and he never forgot. Nor did Paul... 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Amazing...... as I've already said....."in" isn't an indication of "inside". Did Thomas not SEE THE OUTWARD works of Christ? Thomas should have recognized the Father from the Glorious appearance of Jesus Christ. John said... We beheld His GLORY..... the Only Begotten of the Father. In doesn't mean in? Out doesn't mean out? Is the Bible written in abstract? You do know that your redefinitions are the seeds of false teachings, correct? |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:30:41 GMT -8
Baptism doth now save us...giving us a clean conscience before God. We can plead "not guilty" by the "Acts 2:38 amendment". That will be my defense witness. Did Peter baptize you? Are you saying that only Peter can baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:34:01 GMT -8
Isreal was "baptized" in the wilderness. NT saints are baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins as per Acts 2:38 and this... 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Without baptism, you are not free from sins and they still remain. Who baptized John the Baptist? Remember when John told Jesus that he had need to be baptized of Him...... You're lost in man made doctrine. There have been plenty of Saints of God who have had their sins forgiven and washed away by the Blood of Jesus Christ whom have never been baptized nor had the opportunity to get baptized... Besides, you don't have the right to claim you've been properly baptized just because SOMEONE said some "words of over you". It matters who did the baptizing. I don't expect you do anything more than rant without answering or dealing with issues. You haven't thus far. No reason to expect this to change. Discard Acts 2:38 because the Bible doesn't tell us who baptized John the Baptist? Plenty of saints in the NT that disobeyed this... 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,... Yet still got their sins remitted another way? |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:38:10 GMT -8
Christendom simply does not believe God dwells in Jesus Christ, no matter how the scriptures say it. They are mentally blinded by the RCC. Christendom is blinded by "the force". By the "force"..... Jedi nonsense?  Are you actually being serious or not? Jokingly serious. I used "the force" instead of saying Satan has blinded Christendom to think that God is not inside Jesus and never was. His trick is for Christians to tell sinners that God became a human microscopic cell, no wait, a man.... Then folks get more confused when they attempt to process that. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:39:32 GMT -8
Christendom simply does not believe God dwells in Jesus Christ, no matter how the scriptures say it. They are mentally blinded by the RCC. Christendom is blinded by "the force". I don't know about Christendom, but I do know that Jesus is our example and he lives in US. His holy spirit the third member of the trinity Is an indwelling promise by scripture. 1 Kings 8:27 This promise of Jesus is another example of what was promised and fulfilled in Scripture. In the Old Testament, Ezekiel prophesied that the Lord would purify and cleanse His people and put a new spirit within them. That promise was fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Christ and the new birth of His disciples. “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith” (Ephesians 3:16-17). Jesus told us to abide in him. So we are told to live in him. Is Jesus at home in your heart? Does He have access to all aspects of your life? Well God was at home in the Heart of Jesus. He told his disciples if you've seen me you've seen the father. I pray that God would reveal to us how He dwelled in Christ, and subsequently can dwell in us. Is the Father a holy Spirit? Yes or no? |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:40:21 GMT -8
Christendom simply does not believe God dwells in Jesus Christ, no matter how the scriptures say it. They are mentally blinded by the RCC. Christendom is blinded by "the force". Perichoresis |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:41:42 GMT -8
DEFINITION OF PERICHORESIS.—By the Perichoresis of the Three Divine Persons we mean their mutual Interpenetration and Inexistence by virtue of their Consubstantiality, their immanent Processions, and the divine Relations. That's what I'm talking about! Christ clearly affirms the divine Perichoresis when He says: “I am in the Father, and the Father is in me.” John 14:11 “In him we live, and move, and are,” merely asserts the immensity of God, not the Trinitarian Perichoresis. For, as Petavius rightly observes, “though the mind abstract entirely from the notion of place and location in space, and regard solely the Divine Hypostases considered in themselves and absolutely, Perichoresis and the mutual inexistence of Person in Person will still be there; because if one be posited it will be necessary to posit the other; they cannot be separated from one another, but each will remain intimately united with each and all three will mutually inexist.” Hence the Perichoresis of the Blessed Trinity cannot be adequately explained by the divine attribute of immensity. But the good news is: “Perichoresis in the Godhead originates in the unity of the Divine Essence,” says Petavius, “… and it consists in this, that one Person cannot be divided or separated from another, but they mutually exist in one another without confusion and without detriment to the distinction between them. civic talks about this when he tell us that The Trinity cannot be divided or separated. But I should let him talk about that as he explains it better than I ever could. 3 God's. I can count just fine, and so can the rest of the world. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:44:09 GMT -8
The Trinity/is each person distinctly self-conscious? How could they not be? Because we have: “in the beginning,” “at the beginning,” “since the beginning” and “from the beginning,” and they all mean the same thing. They refer to a time when God dwelt alone and lived alone in uncreated majesty and glory. The Father in love with the Son; the Son in love with the Spirit; and the Spirit and the Father and the Son dwelling in the tranquility that had no beginning and can have no end. That marvelous, uncreated beauty of divine unity. When The Trinity began to create, that was the beginning. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Genesis 1:26 Then you have ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ These are among the most famous lines in the New Testament: they begin the Gospel of St. John. So who is this ‘the Word’? That would be Jesus as John points out. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. Jesus is the light John was talking about. "The word" in John 1:1-3 is speaking of the spoken word of God that made evertthing per Gen 1. Our word is us and not another person likewise....I hope, anyway. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:45:37 GMT -8
Christendom simply does not believe God dwells in Jesus Christ, no matter how the scriptures say it. They are mentally blinded by the RCC. Christendom is blinded by "the force". thats ok i dont buy/believe any thing you post your blinded by Religion As long as you understand what I am saying, it's okay not to believe it. The seed is planted. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:52:06 GMT -8
thats ok i dont buy/believe any thing you post your blinded by Religion Makes me think of that song "Blinded by the light" except my eyes have been opened by the light. Jesus is the light and my salvation. What I do when anyone plays some theology on me that doesn't sound right or I absolutely don't go along with I just dig in deeper and find out the reasons why I believe what I believe. Civic is the expert in debating non-tritarians. In 40 years as a Christian out of all the places I've traveled in ministries I've been in I've never met anyone that didn't believe in the trinity. Truther is the only person on any forum that I have ever listened to. On some of the other forms they're pretty tough crowd. we got it easy here I am glad you are hearing me out. Forums are great for saying what you and I think, and if it sticks to the wall, we are onto something. If it won't stick, we try another idea. I refuse to remain stuck in my parents religion. I love digging to find the truth and I love dumping my presuppositions out the window and to the curb. Remember, I taught oneness for over 30 years and set it aside to vindicate the scripture. They obey Acts 2:38 though, which I honor about them. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:55:53 GMT -8
Same here I have always thought of Jesus in Jesus in Trinitarian perspective. The Christian doctrine of the incarnation tells me that the eternal Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, became fully a man, Jesus of Nazareth; that in doing so he did not for a moment cease to be fully God; and that he did this “for us and for our salvation.” Don't you think it is a bit unfair for the other 2 persons to talk the 2nd person into taking on humanity, never having to take it on for themselves? Humanity is weakness. No wonder God thought it not robbery to be equal with God.... |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 16:57:44 GMT -8
There are three terms in the New Testament which indicate the eternal pre-existence and deity of Christ: John 3:16 / His unique Son John 5:18 / His own Father Rom. 8:3 / His own Son These three epithets distinguish the eternal sonship of the second Trinitarian person, from the adoptive sonship of believers, spoken of in Romans 8:14–17 The eternal pre-existence of Christ is something clearly assumed by the authors of the New Testament. Indeed, it would be impossible for them to write such passages as Romans 8:3, if they did not believe in it. ie "in the beginning was the word" You forgot to include, begotten son, which specifically denotes conception in Mary's ovaries via her egg cell. |
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Post by civic on Jun 26, 2023 18:15:29 GMT -8
DEFINITION OF PERICHORESIS.—By the Perichoresis of the Three Divine Persons we mean their mutual Interpenetration and Inexistence by virtue of their Consubstantiality, their immanent Processions, and the divine Relations. That's what I'm talking about! Christ clearly affirms the divine Perichoresis when He says: “I am in the Father, and the Father is in me.” John 14:11 “In him we live, and move, and are,” merely asserts the immensity of God, not the Trinitarian Perichoresis. For, as Petavius rightly observes, “though the mind abstract entirely from the notion of place and location in space, and regard solely the Divine Hypostases considered in themselves and absolutely, Perichoresis and the mutual inexistence of Person in Person will still be there; because if one be posited it will be necessary to posit the other; they cannot be separated from one another, but each will remain intimately united with each and all three will mutually inexist.” Hence the Perichoresis of the Blessed Trinity cannot be adequately explained by the divine attribute of immensity. But the good news is: “Perichoresis in the Godhead originates in the unity of the Divine Essence,” says Petavius, “… and it consists in this, that one Person cannot be divided or separated from another, but they mutually exist in one another without confusion and without detriment to the distinction between them. civic talks about this when he tell us that The Trinity cannot be divided or separated. But I should let him talk about that as he explains it better than I ever could. 3 God's. I can count just fine, and so can the rest of the world. No its One God who is 3 in Persons. Trinitarians are not Tritheists, they are Monotheists. |
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Post by Truther on Jun 26, 2023 19:04:28 GMT -8
3 God's. I can count just fine, and so can the rest of the world. No its One God who is 3 in Persons. Trinitarians are not Tritheists, they are Monotheists. That's 1/3rd plus 1/3rd plus 1/3rd making a whole. Also add flesh to 1/3rd of the persons, accounting for 1/2 a person, pretending to have a God. Don't use heavenly mathematics either. |
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Post by civic on Jun 26, 2023 19:25:20 GMT -8
No its One God who is 3 in Persons. Trinitarians are not Tritheists, they are Monotheists. That's 1/3rd plus 1/3rd plus 1/3rd making a whole. Also add flesh to 1/3rd of the persons, accounting for 1/2 a person, pretending to have a God. Don't use heavenly mathematics either. No as God is not a math equation, He is Miraculous and defies human logic and reasoning. |
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