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Post by praiseyeshua on Mar 9, 2023 11:48:03 GMT -8
I've said this before and I'll say it again to set the tone for this thread.
I'm probably 90 percent Calvinist, however, the 10 percent difference I have between them and myself..... is in extremely meaningful areas.
For example..... I believe the Scriptures....
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and you would not!
Calvinism would actually have you believe that God Incarnate wouldn't actually do what He said He would do.......
They would have you believe that this "IF" that Jesus presented was actually His appointed will.
In other words..... Jesus just loved creating His own self determining drama.........
However, Jesus is MOURNING this reality in these verse. MOURNING the damnation of those He would willingly help.
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Post by civic on Mar 10, 2023 7:53:35 GMT -8
I've said this before and I'll it again to set the tone for this thread. I'm probably 90 percent Calvinist, however, the 10 percent difference I have been them and myself..... is in extremely meaningful areas. For example..... I believe the Scriptures.... Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and you would not! Calvinism would actually have you believe that God Incarnate wouldn't actually do what He said He would do....... They would have you believe that this "IF" that Jesus presented was actually His appointed will. In other words..... Jesus just loved creating His own self determining drama......... However, Jesus is MOURNING this reality in these verse. MOURNING the damnation of those He would willingly help. The fact that the Holy Spirit can be grieved, Jesus wept and the Father can be both pleased and sorry reveals God does not meticulously determine all things. The fact God cares and that He can relent shows us that not everything involving man is set in stone. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Mar 13, 2023 7:43:27 GMT -8
I've said this before and I'll it again to set the tone for this thread. I'm probably 90 percent Calvinist, however, the 10 percent difference I have been them and myself..... is in extremely meaningful areas. For example..... I believe the Scriptures.... Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and you would not! Calvinism would actually have you believe that God Incarnate wouldn't actually do what He said He would do....... They would have you believe that this "IF" that Jesus presented was actually His appointed will. In other words..... Jesus just loved creating His own self determining drama......... However, Jesus is MOURNING this reality in these verse. MOURNING the damnation of those He would willingly help. The fact that the Holy Spirit can be grieved, Jesus wept and the Father can be both pleased and sorry reveals God does not meticulously determine all things. The fact God cares and that He can relent shows us that not everything involving man is set in stone. we are warned not to harden our hearts—>Heb 3:15 - While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.Clement of Rome, who was the Apostle Paul’s companion, said, “But, you say, God ought to have made us at first so that we should not have thought at all of such things. You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice… Since therefore every one’s freedom constitutes the true good, and shows the true evil, God has contrived that friendship or hostility should be in each man by occasions. But no, it is said: everything that we think He makes us to think. Stop! Why do you blaspheme more and more, in saying this? For if we are under His influence in all that we think, you say that He is the cause of fornications, lusts, avarice, and all blasphemy. Cease your evil-speaking, ye who ought to speak well of Him, and to bestow all honour upon Him.”https://biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/is-god-the-author-of-sin-calvinism-refuted-jesse-morrell/ |
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Post by Isabel Bacote on Apr 26, 2023 13:26:01 GMT -8
IT SEEMS CERTAIN THAT the debate between Calvinism and those who reject Calvinism will never end. I am under no illusion that my meager contribution will end the discussion. I do pray my thoughts will contribute to the discussion by possibly clarifying some of the issues and further exposing the incongruence between Calvinism and Scripture.
Even more so, I want not only to offer a critique of many of the claims and interpretations of Calvinism, but also an alternative understanding that I believe is more reflective of Scripture and consistent logic. I call my position Extensivism, which I more precisely define and explain in chapter 3 and the Authorial Glossary. In its broadest application, it encompasses all who believe God’s salvific love is for every person in contrast to Calvinism’s exclusivism, which limits God’s salvific love to only some.
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Post by civic on Apr 26, 2023 14:20:15 GMT -8
IT SEEMS CERTAIN THAT the debate between Calvinism and those who reject Calvinism will never end. I am under no illusion that my meager contribution will end the discussion. I do pray my thoughts will contribute to the discussion by possibly clarifying some of the issues and further exposing the incongruence between Calvinism and Scripture. Even more so, I want not only to offer a critique of many of the claims and interpretations of Calvinism, but also an alternative understanding that I believe is more reflective of Scripture and consistent logic. I call my position Extensivism, which I more precisely define and explain in chapter 3 and the Authorial Glossary. In its broadest application, it encompasses all who believe God’s salvific love is for every person in contrast to Calvinism’s exclusivism, which limits God’s salvific love to only some. Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum Isabel. How did you find out about our forum ? Thank you ! |
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Post by guy zomer on Apr 27, 2023 4:43:56 GMT -8
IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND the actual contrast between Calvinism’s belief about the nature of God, his sovereign rule over his creation, and his salvation plan with Extensivism’s view of the same, one must understand the two position’s vastly different perspectives of what it means for man to be free to choose and be responsible for his choices.
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Post by civic on Apr 27, 2023 5:09:09 GMT -8
The fact that the Holy Spirit can be grieved, Jesus wept and the Father can be both pleased and sorry reveals God does not meticulously determine all things. The fact God cares and that He can relent shows us that not everything involving man is set in stone. we are warned not to harden our hearts—>Heb 3:15 - While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.Clement of Rome, who was the Apostle Paul’s companion, said, “But, you say, God ought to have made us at first so that we should not have thought at all of such things. You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice… Since therefore every one’s freedom constitutes the true good, and shows the true evil, God has contrived that friendship or hostility should be in each man by occasions. But no, it is said: everything that we think He makes us to think. Stop! Why do you blaspheme more and more, in saying this? For if we are under His influence in all that we think, you say that He is the cause of fornications, lusts, avarice, and all blasphemy. Cease your evil-speaking, ye who ought to speak well of Him, and to bestow all honour upon Him.”https://biblicaltruthresources.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/is-god-the-author-of-sin-calvinism-refuted-jesse-morrell/ Good points and I like Jesse. |
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Post by guy zomer on Apr 27, 2023 15:09:09 GMT -8
Everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.
(ISA. 43:7)
One of our goals in Breaking Free is to identify our personal hindrances to abundant life.
In Isaiah 43:7, what do you suppose God means when He refers to His glory? The more I study God’s glory, the more convinced I become that it is almost indefinable. Let’s look at several Scriptures and learn the meanings in Hebrew and Greek. However, keep in mind that God’s glory far exceeds anything we can comprehend. His glory is everything we’re about to learn and infinitely more.
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Post by Bernie Wertheim on May 2, 2023 11:34:00 GMT -8
Any other view of God’s sovereignty than Calvinism diminishes the glory of God; only “the doctrines of grace” fully honor and uphold God’s glory. Plus, it makes Calvinist extremely upset.
It all depends on what “God’s glory” means. If it means power, then perhaps this is correct. But power isn’t glorious except when guided by goodness and love. Hitler was powerful but obviously not glorious. Jesus Christ revealed God as “our Father” and therefore as good and loving.
In fact, high Calvinism (TULIP), wrongly labeled “the doctrines of grace” by Calvinists, diminishes God’s glory by depicting him as malicious and arbitrary. Furthermore, if Calvinism is correct, nothing can “diminish the glory of God” because God foreordained everything for his glory.
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Post by Lettie Grisham on May 8, 2023 15:41:22 GMT -8
Calvin listened to the voice of man, many voices, and the result was confusion to this day.
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Post by Doreen Micheals on May 11, 2023 11:53:47 GMT -8
One has to wonder, however, who is the God at the center of Calvinism. Boettner admits that God could save everyone, because election to salvation is unconditional and regeneration and faith are solely gifts of God given only to the elect: “But for reasons which have been only partially revealed, He leaves many impenitent.”
While non-Calvinists are willing to admit that high Calvinism is God-centered, they have good reason to wonder how exactly to distinguish between the God it centers itself on and Satan—except that Satan wants all people damned to hell and God wants only a certain number damned to hell. That may sound harsh, but it is the reason most Christians are not Calvinists. Talk about a disconnect.
And it is no less harsh than Calvinists’ frequent accusation that Arminians (and other non-Calvinists) place man, not God, at the center of their theology because they want to boast and rob God of his rightful glory. Talk about a disconnect.
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Post by Tatiana Wheatley on May 11, 2023 12:23:03 GMT -8
Neither Arminianism nor other non-Calvinist Christian theologies say that God never overrides a person’s free will. What they say is that God never foreordains or renders certain sin or the choice to accept God grace. God puts pressure on people to do good, including to receive Christ, but never influences to evil or overrides free will in the matter of salvation.
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Post by Fiona Milliken on Jul 6, 2023 6:43:40 GMT -8
To the Administrator!,
keep up the good work! .
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Post by Albertina Verdin on Jul 6, 2023 15:53:46 GMT -8
God and man must both do something before a man can be saved. Hyper-Calvinism denies the necessity of human action, and Arminianism denies the true nature of the Divine action. The Bible clearly sets forth both the divine and human as essential in God's plan of salvation. This is not to say, as Arminianism does, God's part is to freely provide salvation for all men, and man's part is to become willing to accept it.
This is not what we said above, nor is it what the Bible teaches. In order to understand what God's Word really says and to try to answer some "straw dummy" objections, we shall establish the subject one point at a time.
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Post by Sharon Waldrop on Jul 8, 2023 18:36:22 GMT -8
Virtually all Calvinists (as distinct from some in the Reformed tradition and especially what I have called “revisionist Reformed” theologians) affirm a strong or high view of God’s sovereignty such as Boettner’s. Did Calvin himself affirm such? In Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion, Geneva’s chief pastor wrote about God’s providence: “We ought undoubtedly to hold that whatever changes are discerned in the world are produced from the secret stirring of God’s hand … what God has determined must necessarily so take place.”
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