Ozias
Full Member
Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you
Posts: 100
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Post by Ozias on May 6, 2023 4:57:09 GMT -8
I'm all for Infant Dedication as Infant Baptism seems unbiblical to me. Because an infant cannot place his or her faith in Christ. An infant cannot understand what water baptism symbolizes. Also, the Bible does not record any infants being baptized.
Infant Dedication Is not only logical but it's also practical.
Christian parents who dedicate a child are making a promise to the Lord before the church congregation to do everything within their power to raise the child in a godly way — prayerfully — until he or she can make a decision on his or her own to follow God. As is the case with infant baptism, it is sometimes customary at this time to name godparents to help raise the child according to godly principles.
Parents who make this vow, or commitment, are instructed to raise the child in the ways of God and not according to their own ways. Some of the responsibilities include teaching and training the child in God's Word, demonstrating practical examples of godliness, disciplining the child according to God's ways, and praying earnestly for the child.
Train up a child in the way he should go [and in keeping with his individual gift or bent], and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6
The practice of baby dedication is rooted in this passage found in Deuteronomy 6:4-7:
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2023 6:09:14 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save.
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Post by civic on May 6, 2023 7:38:24 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. The baptism of infants originally was a salvific doctrine which is unbiblical. One must believe then they are saved. Baptism confirms an already present faith which is impossible with infants. If God saves an infant who dies it has nothing whatsoever to do with them being baptized or not and rests upon His mercy and grace alone. |
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Post by Theophilus on May 6, 2023 9:44:52 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. The baptism of infants originally was a salvific doctrine which is unbiblical. One must believe then they are saved. Baptism confirms an already present faith which is impossible with infants. If God saves an infant who dies it has nothing whatsoever to do with them being baptized or not and rests upon His mercy and grace alone. I definitely agree. Baptism is not essential to our salvation. No sacrament is essential to salvation: if you say it is, you are aligning yourself with the Roman Catholics. Protestants have always said that while baptism and the Lord’s Supper are commands of the Lord, and we should therefore practice them, they are not essential. They do not add grace or have the power to bring about salvation or redemption. To me it's an outward sign of an inward conversion. And since infants cannot be converted water baptism is of no avail to them. Then there is the reality of an age of accountability, an age a child reaches at which point the child can be morally accountable for its behavior. Deuteronomy 1:39
“Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.” It seems that at some unspecified age children do gain an awareness of right and wrong and that prior to that age children cannot be considered morally accountable before God. God does not view infants as sinners. Some claim that all children are born in a state of guilt and moral corruption due to original sin. Then you have the problem of if they die before their mature enough to put their faith in Christ they are automatically condemned hell. Through no fault of their own. That's starting to sound like Calvinism. How does John 3:16 fit into that? |
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Post by Seeker on May 6, 2023 12:08:13 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. It's obvious to us that baptism does not save. But not to millions of Catholics and Mormons. They buy into that one hook line and sinker. |
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Ozias
Full Member
Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you
Posts: 100
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Post by Ozias on May 11, 2023 14:23:55 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. It seems like infant dedication would also accomplish that. A baby dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice baby dedication instead of infant baptism (also known as Christening ) as their primary celebration of a child's birth into the community of faith. |
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Post by Theophilus on Jun 6, 2023 8:33:50 GMT -8
Only believers who have placed their faith in Christ should be baptized - as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Christ (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4). Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience after faith in Christ. It is a proclamation of faith in Christ, a statement of submission to Him, and an identification with His death, burial, and resurrection.
Obviously this excludes infants.
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Post by atpollard on Jul 3, 2023 10:03:03 GMT -8
There can be no answer until one first answers the Questions behind the Question.
- What is "The Church"?
- What is "baptism"?
If one begins from the Reformed (ie. WCF/Presbyterian) perspective that God replaced the OLD COVENANT with a NEW COVENANT in the very LITERAL sense, then Acts 2 is the inauguration of a Covenant parallel with the Sinai Covenant and the CHURCH is a "new Israel" (PEOPLE/NATION) belonging to God and including entire families ("for you and your children"). Thus "baptism" becomes admittance into the PEOPLE OF GOD and is appropriate for infants and children. Under the Old Covenant, Israel did not raise their children as Gentiles until they were old enough to choose for themselves if they wanted to become part of the Nation. Under the New Covenant, it makes no more sense to raise your children as slaves to sin and the world and wait to see if they will choose to follow God on their own ... NO! you raise your children in a Christian Home as part of the blessings of the People of God with the expectations that God will honor his promise to bless a THOUSAND generations!
If one begins from the Baptist perspective that the Church is the Body of Christ and those who have ALREADY believed (not those who will SOMEDAY believe) then Baptism if for those who already BELIEVE and is inappropriate for an infant that cannot understand, let alone hear the gospel, and believe it and be transformed by the Spirit of God. Baptism, for a Baptist, is a celebration of a salvific experience.
So, once one defines (from Scripture and per YOUR understanding) "Church" and "baptism" ... the question of Credobaptism (believers only) or Paedobaptism (families) resolves itself into an obvious answer.
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Post by civic on Jul 3, 2023 10:12:41 GMT -8
There can be no answer until one first answers the Questions behind the Question.
- What is "The Church"?
- What is "baptism"?
If one begins from the Reformed (ie. WCF/Presbyterian) perspective that God replaced the OLD COVENANT with a NEW COVENANT in the very LITERAL sense, then Acts 2 is the inauguration of a Covenant parallel with the Sinai Covenant and the CHURCH is a "new Israel" (PEOPLE/NATION) belonging to God and including entire families ("for you and your children"). Thus "baptism" becomes admittance into the PEOPLE OF GOD and is appropriate for infants and children. Under the Old Covenant, Israel did not raise their children as Gentiles until they were old enough to choose for themselves if they wanted to become part of the Nation. Under the New Covenant, it makes no more sense to raise your children as slaves to sin and the world and wait to see if they will choose to follow God on their own ... NO! you raise your children in a Christian Home as part of the blessings of the People of God with the expectations that God will honor his promise to bless a THOUSAND generations!
If one begins from the Baptist perspective that the Church is the Body of Christ and those who have ALREADY believed (not those who will SOMEDAY believe) then Baptism if for those who already BELIEVE and is inappropriate for an infant that cannot understand, let alone hear the gospel, and believe it and be transformed by the Spirit of God. Baptism, for a Baptist, is a celebration of a salvific experience.
So, once one defines (from Scripture and per YOUR understanding) "Church" and "baptism" ... the question of Credobaptism (believers only) or Paedobaptism (families) resolves itself into an obvious answer. I’m glad you made it here and welcome 
And good job on explaining the differences along with the built in presuppositions.
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Post by charismaticlady on Jul 19, 2023 14:24:15 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. The baptism of infants originally was a salvific doctrine which is unbiblical. One must believe then they are saved. Baptism confirms an already present faith which is impossible with infants. If God saves an infant who dies it has nothing whatsoever to do with them being baptized or not and rests upon His mercy and grace alone. I was immersed when I was 10 years old. Again when I was about 25, and then I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. He told me then "Now be baptized in water."
One day my mother gave me my baby book and inside was a certificate for my infant baptism! She never even told me!
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Post by dizerner2 on Jul 19, 2023 15:25:19 GMT -8
Dedication yes, baptism no
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Post by forgiven on Jul 19, 2023 15:38:20 GMT -8
Does not baptizing an infant recognize them in the physical church of the new covenant. It's obvious baptism does not save. there is no scripture to support this |
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Post by forgiven on Jul 19, 2023 15:41:31 GMT -8
The baptism of infants originally was a salvific doctrine which is unbiblical. One must believe then they are saved. Baptism confirms an already present faith which is impossible with infants. If God saves an infant who dies it has nothing whatsoever to do with them being baptized or not and rests upon His mercy and grace alone. I was immersed when I was 10 years old. Again when I was about 25, and then I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. He told me then "Now be baptized in water."
One day my mother gave me my baby book and inside was a certificate for my infant baptism! She never even told me!
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. when one gets saved we have the ability to hear God voice through the Holy spirit . infant baptism is =to taking a bath holds no merit |
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Post by charismaticlady on Jul 19, 2023 15:46:41 GMT -8
I was immersed when I was 10 years old. Again when I was about 25, and then I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. He told me then "Now be baptized in water."
One day my mother gave me my baby book and inside was a certificate for my infant baptism! She never even told me!
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. when one gets saved we have the ability to hear God voice through the Holy spirit . infant baptism is =to taking a bath holds no merit You too? Or did you mistakenly copy mine? |
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Post by forgiven on Jul 19, 2023 15:58:04 GMT -8
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. when one gets saved we have the ability to hear God voice through the Holy spirit . infant baptism is =to taking a bath holds no merit You too? Or did you mistakenly copy mine? i dont care for this format in a forum ..it was a quote reply --you stated I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and received the ability to hear God's voice at 40. i said when one gets saved we have the ability to hear God voice through the Holy spirit . infant baptism is =to taking a bath holds no merit |
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