God's Foreknowledge & our salvation/calling/election/predest

Yep. The problem is Paul is NOT speaking to or about unregenerate people. They are not "all mankind." The specific point I am confronting is the claim, "Since all mankind has been gifted with a mind, conscience, and heart, then man does have the capacity, with the power and conviction of the Holy Spirit, to pray and believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior...." and the egregiously flawed argument claiming that statement means "regeneration comes after faith." 

All mankind is not gifted with the Holy Spirit. 

Only the regenerate are gifted with the Holy Spirit....... and that mean regeneration precedes faith, not the other way around. The Corinthians had the Spirit, whether they acted that way or not. Their being "babes in Christ" still means they were still in Christ. Yes, Paul's message is the entire congregation needs to stop being fleshly and grow up spiritually, but the fact remains they were already regenerate and indwelt. It is because they were regenerated and indwelt by the HS that 1) Paul could tell them to shape up, 2) they could receive the exhortation, and 3) they could act upon in in godly manner The fact remains the unregenerate has ONLY the flesh and NOT the Spirit y which they might think, feel, will, or act in any manner spiritual. The natural man - whether he be regenerate or not - does NOT accept the things of the Spirit of God. The mind of flesh is hostile to God - whether that mind exists in an unregenerate person or not - and it does not and CANNOT please God. That's what those passages actually state. They were written to believers about believers but when applied to unbelievers - who have no Spirit, who have only the flesh - they are fatal to the premise of regeneration comes after faith.

That person must first have the Spirit. Otherwise, the things of the Spirit cannot be understood, they will be considered foolishness. That's just as true of the regenerate as it is the unregenerate. Likewise, the mind of flesh is hostile to God, even if the person has been regenerated and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The person who has not been regenerated has only the mind of flesh; he does not have a mind of the Spirit. As a consequence, he CANNOT please God. 

Gnostic, Manichaean, and Iconoclastic acquaintances don't scare me none as long as I'm taking my medication for my Schizoaffective disorder.

The problem here is that all the verses quoted are written to and about people already living within a covenant relationship with God. They are not written about or to the Amorite; they are written to the covenant Jew. They are not written to the Jebusite; they are written to the covenant Jew. Every verse forwarded by you occurs within the context of an already-established covenant relationship that began with God acting without regard to the human faculty, will, or work. 

Yes! Scores of them!

I'll start with every single covenant in the Bible. Every single one of them is initiated by God. Adam, Noah, Moses, David..... none of them were asked beforehand if they wanted to be chosen, called, commanded, or brought into the covenant. Any choice they were given came only after God had initiated the covenant. 

Genesis 6:5-13

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God. Noah became the father of three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. Then God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.


Not a single mention of choice offered to Noah. Not a single mention the favor God found in Noah was due to Noah, especially not his repentance. Noah wasn't asked if he wanted to be chosen, not asked if he wanted to be called, not asked if he wanted to be THE one guy through whom the future generations of humanity would be saved, not asked if he wanted to build and anrk, not asked if he wanted to be brought into the covenant. Only after he was brought into that covenant relationship did Noah choose to do anything covenant related. The same is true with Abram. 

Genesis 12:1-4

Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him....

God did not ask Abram; He commanded Abram. The NT tells us God announced the gospel in advance to Abraham. God chose Abram, He called Abram. He commanded Abram, and He initiated the covenant with Abram without asking Abram if he wanted any of it and there's no record of repentance prior to God doing so.

For the sake of space, I won't quote it but at the burning bush Moses argues with God. He clearly does not want ot go but he does not have a choice; he is commanded against his will to go. He was prepared for his place in the covenant long before he'd ever heard of the covenant. He was chosen, called, commanded without being asked and compelled to go without repenting. Any choice and any action he made occurred only after he'd been brought into the covenant relationship with God. The New Testament tells us ALL these covenants foreshadow the Christ covenant. 

Every single verse you will ever proof-text occurs within that context. NOTHING written in the Bible occurs outside this condition. 

At Pentecost there is an explicit statement God added to the number of the Church. 

Acts 2:43-47

Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Sure human volition can be inferred, but there's no actual mention anywhere in the entire chapter of the human will, and if there were it would occur in the context of the Spirt already having been poured out on those people getting saved (as opposed to those who did not get saved). Even the mention by Peter of "repent and be baptized" occurs within the context of the already established covenant, the outpouring of the covenant, the piercing of the heart, etc. As the narrative conclude the scripture attribute the reasons and causes all only to God, not to the human. EXPLICITLY. 

In Romans 9 Paul references Jacob citing the prophet's declaration he was loved by God, and loved before he was even born. 

Romans 9:6-19

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”


Jacob was brought into the covenant God had made with his father, Abraham. He didn't have a choice. He wasn't particularly repentant, either. As Noah is an example of God's willingness and ability to destroy the entire planet and rid it of sinful man without asking if anyone wants Him to do so, and just as Moses stands as an example of a human who does argue futilely with God before he is saved, Jacob stand as an example of a man being brought into the covenant absent repentance. God was faithful to the man despite his rebellion and broke the man so he would eventually repent. Romans 9 tells us God had mercy on him, loved him before he was even born and God's mercy was solely due to God's will and purpose and not Jacob's the verse explicitly states it does NOT depend on how a man wills or works (runs) but on God. 

Ephesians 2:4-10

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The passage explicitly states our salvation is NOT "of ourselves." The passage explicitly precludes human effort until afterwards. Every single aspect of the passage is attributed to God. Not a single mention of human will, not a single mention of human repentance. 

Scripture does not always make statements about causality in its report of salvation but when it does 1) it ALWAYS occurs within an already established covenant relationship with God initiated by God without asking the sinner if he wanted any of it, and 2) the scriptures ALWAYS assign causality to God and NEVER mention the human volition. Choices only come after these things. This is just as true of the Christ covenant is it was in any and all of its foreshadowing version. The choices of Joshua 24 come only after those people had been established. The choices were not offered the Amorites or the Jebusites. All the non-covenant people were to be destroyed - whether they want it or not. God brought every single individual and group on record into the covenant relationship...

....and they were thankful for His doing so. 

It was a thankfulness inspired and empowered by the covenant relationship and God's will and purpose, not their own. God killed an entire generation except for two people because of a lack of faith shown after the covenant was established and His manifest power was known. He did not ask them if the wanted to die and no amount of repentance would change His will. Not even Moses made it into the promised Promised Land. 

Grace and faith are gifts from God and God's mercy does not depend on how a man will or works. He makes the clay into whatever kind of pot He wants and the pot has now power to question it. The pot serves according to the purpose the Potter designed. So, yes, I can offer many whole passages that explicitly and clearly demonstrates that monergism is true and I do not have to proof=text individual verse or read things into those verses they do not actually state. 

Can you provide parity? Will you do so? Show me the verse that explicitly states the sinfully dead and enslaved unregenerate's will is in any way causal to his or her salvation. 

Here's how it usually plays out when I ask this question: A proof-texted verse that doesn't actually explicitly state anything about the unregenerate's will will be quoted. It's going to be a verse ripped from it's context and treated inferentially. I'm going to make note of that and make my request a second time. Then another proof-texted verse will be quoted and I will make the same observation again and make my request a third time. When a proof-texted verse is quoted and again read inferentially a third time I will simply note three strikes and you're out because if such a verse exists it shouldn't take three tries to find and post it. 

Or..... 

It will be acknowledged in the very next post there isn't actually any verse anywhere in the Bible that explcitly reports the sinfully enslaved and dead unregenerates's will is in any way causal to his salvation. 

Then, whether it's "three strikes and you're out," or an immediate open and honest acknowledgment of the scripture's silence we can discuss what it means to build a soteriological doctrine on the silence of scripture that ignores the scores of places the scriptures explicitly assign causality to God and not man. I can have that discussion without judging you personally. 


Where is the verse that explicitly states the unregenerate's will did it?

I did my part. Now please do yours.

No, because that is not what monergism teaches. The question is a red herring and thereby evidence monergism is not correctly understood. Monergists do not deny the necessity of repentance. We simply believe repentance occurs as a consequence of regeneration. Having been regenerated the previously dead and enslaved flesh-only sinner can now confess, repent, obey, devote, etc. in collaboration with God's inspiration and power. A straw man is being argued if it is thought monergism does not require repentance for salvation. 

Rom 2:14-16 mentions that there are “Nations, who do not have the Law” (aka: Gentile Nations) whose people possess “hearts”, “conscience”, and “thoughts”. That fact along with the Holy Spirit’s overarching convicting ministry throws the notion of “Total Depravity” out the window.



Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;

Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,

Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Who else other than from God did mankind receive their hearts, conscience, and minds from.

There are scores of human actions from every one of the verses you quoted:

1) “Noah walked with God”, (Paul exhorts Christians to walk with God (2 Th 2:12,4:1))
2) “Abram went forth”, (John praised those who went forth in 3 John 1:7 because they were exceptional)
3) Acts 2:43-47 records multiple human actions,
4) Romans 9:6-19 is talking about preordained works and election which requires human action,
5) Ephesians 2:4-10 is a mixture of predestined inheritance (result of our faith and being placed “in Christ”), salvation by grace (God’s Grace extends to our wills, hearts, minds, & conscience which we action), and preordained works (preordained for human actions).



When it comes to emphasizing the importance of faith and human actions together, Apostle James says it best:

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete?
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God."
James 2:24 You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.