The Three Covenants

The New Covenant in Hebrews.

Hebrews is the only biblical letter outside of Paul’s writings that uses the term “new covenant.” The author of Hebrews uses this term four out of the six times that it occurs in the New Testament (Heb 8:8, 13; 9:15; 12:24). In Hebrews 8:8, the author refers to the new covenant when he quotes from Jeremiah. In Hebrews 8:13, the author echoes the Pauline understanding of the old covenant as obsolete and the new covenant as superior.
In the third instance, Hebrews 9:15, the author speaks of the high priesthood of Jesus after the order of Melchizedek.

Just as the high priest affirmed the old covenant through sacrifice, Jesus Himself affirms the new covenant through the outpouring of His blood. As the high priest sanctifies all of the people of Israel, Jesus, through His sacrifice, sanctifies all who choose to make an eternal covenant with Him (Heb 10:14). The author of Hebrews refers to the law and sacrifice system here as the “first covenant” (πρώτῃ διαθήκῃ, prōtē diathēkē), thus encapsulating all the previous covenants into one. This interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures led early Christians to view everything that had come before them as being one “old” covenant (Bruce, The Canon of Scripture, 59). The author of Hebrews also speaks of the new covenant as being part of that which establishes a kingdom that cannot be shaken.

The church fathers wrote too little about Hebrews to provide any firm conclusion regarding their agreement on the new covenant theology of Hebrews. However, since Hebrews’ understanding of the new covenant generally harmonizes with Pauline understanding, it is reasonable to conclude that the church fathers likely would have affirmed it. Even with the developments of new covenant theology in Hebrews, the theology still focuses on the faithful life of the Christ-follower, not on written documents.


The Lexham Bible Dictionary
John D. Barry

Believing Israel (faith in God but not Jesus - Jhn 14:1) has been forgiven by God applying Jesus' Blood to their sins in the sin sacrifices (Act 2:25; Rom 3:25; Heb 9:15-22; 
Also Col 2:17; Heb 8:5; 10:1). But since they do not believe in Christ, God has no fellowship with them; just a "people of God." 

netchaplain , here's a trick for managing the quote boxes. When you first click the "Quote" button immediately scroll down to the bottom of the new window and immediately put some text in the space under the quote. This will reserve the space for your post should you edit or delete content from the quoted post.

It's not going to work for that last post because the quote box is already screwed up so use this post. 





Who, or what, is Israel, according to scripture? How does whole scripture define its own term, its own use of "Israel"? Use scripture.


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Perhaps I need to clarify my question because I'm NOT asking about doctrine. I'm asking about scripture. How does scripture define "Israel," not how do man-made doctrines extra-biblically define Israel. You can post all you like, nc, but that does not preclude a discussion. Please stop appealing to the idea we're still going to disagree. It's lame. If you and I are willing to bow to correctly rendered scripture, beginning first and foremost with what is plainly, explicitly stated in scripture then we can 1) reduce a lot of disagreement and 2) possibly extinguish all of it! That is the very purpose of discussion boards, yes? 

Alternatively, if I (and others) can post a more thoroughly consistent set of scriptures that proves better than Stanford's or Snell's then it should be given credence because as you say, we don't follow the man, we follow the teaching. The teaching I am asking about is the teaching of scripture, NOT the extra-biblical teachings of the men I prefer. If your answers to my questions are anything other than scripture, then we will disagree but in all such cases there should be disagreement because no Christian should agree to things not-scriptural. In this particular case of my particular question, scripture never states Israel is a geo-political nation-state based solely on bloodline. By your own standard of "nowhere does scripture say...." we should agree   to reject that definition. This very op discriminates between specific "kinds" of Israel. My question is completely op-relevant, and valid, and therefore not be avoided no matter how many times or how much volume you may have previously posted on the matter. This op is what this thread is supposed to be discussing. 




So who or what does scripture state is Israel? 


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That is completely the opposite of what that scripture states! Let's take a look at that verse in its inherent context. This is what Galatians 6:16 actually states: "And all who will follow this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." Here's what that verse states in its context among all else that text states, 

Galatians 6:12-16

Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. 


We see that Paul has appealed to a "rule" by which "the Israel of God" may be recognized. What is that rule? The rules is the new creation is what matters and neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything. Furthermore, Paul's narrative here is couched in those who "desire to make a good showing in the flesh," and those who try to make a good showing in the flesh so "they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ." 

What the text does NOT state is "The Israel of God is Jews who are Christians." Paul excludes that possibility when he mentions BOTH circumcision AND uncircumcision. Neither matter! What the verse states is that it those who walk in the new creation are the Israel of God. So where do we find scripture defining the new creation? How about 2 Corinthians 5:17? 


2 Corinthians 5:16-17

Therefore, from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.


The new creature is anyone in Christ, not just Jews who are Christians. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Greek; Gal. 3:28). 

In Romans 9 Paul states, "not all Israel is Israel," or "they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel." 

Romans 9:6-8

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.


Who descended from Israel belong to Israel? According to Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the Israel that belongs to Israel are "the children of the promise," and not the "children of the flesh." In other words, Paul specifically excludes flesh, or bloodline from the matter and couches the descendants of Israel that are Israel in God's promise. Paul goes on to further say this promise has absolutely nothing with the will or the work of men. God has mercy on whom He has mercy and that mercy is couched in God's will and God's purpose, not that of men. 

Romans 9:6-18

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


The apostle John wrote similarly in the opening of his gospel. 


John 1:9-13

There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


It is the will fo God that defines the descendants of Israel that are Israel and that is based on God's promise, not the flesh, and not the will or the work of men. 

But there's another HUGE pair of scriptures that are being missed. Look at Hosea 11:1. 

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.

Look at what the apostle Matthew did with Hosea 11:1 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. 

Matthew 2:13-15

Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him." So, Joseph got up and took the Child and His mother while it was still night and left for Egypt. He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called My son."


According to Matthew Jesus is Israel!!! 

Before I get accused of spiritualizing and allegorizing, let me not it is scripture itself that makes these connections. It is scripture that quotes the prophet Hosea to identify the prophets words as Christ. Scripture defines Israel as Christ and those in Christ. Those in Christ are neither Jew nor Gentile. This is important because we want to avoid the problem of Judaizing Christianity. 

That is what Stanford did!

I doubt it intended to do so. He was likely simply following in the vein of the othr Dispensationalists but one of the hugest problems within Dispensationalism is the chronic Judaization of Christianity. 

Yes! This is true, but who does scripture define as the descendants of Abraham? Galatians 3 answers this question. 

Galatians 3:7-9

Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All nations will be blessed in you." So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Romans 4:13-16

For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all....


Simply put, the righteous live by faith, They live by faith, not the law, not the flesh, and not bloodline. 

Matthew 3:9
...do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’ for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

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Scripture. Scripture, not opinion, and not what you or I may think. Not what Stanford or Snell thought, either. So crack open your Bible and read the passages I've referenced. Think and pray about them, contemplating first what they actually, specifically, literally, explicitly state, and not what well-intentioned Christians of doctrinal biases have made them say. 



Because if you can agree scripture defines Jesus as Israel and the geo-political bloodline nation state was merely what scripture calls a "foreshadow" of Christ then we can look at a couple of other things the Dispensational sources said in this op. 

1 Corinthians 12:17 KJV
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Sure we can. Paul, Peter and John do it repeatedly. In point of fact one of the greatest failings in Judaism was their complete, abject failure to be an example to all other nations and bring them - by their example and the purpose, will, and power of God - into the covenant relationship. The Law itself explicitly stipulated the rules of the Law applied to the foreigner, the sojourner among them. It is Dispensationalism, not the Bible that separates the two. One of Darby's CORE traits of his invented hermeneutic was the division between Israel and the Church. 

This is one of the reasons why I asked you how scripture defines Israel, not how Dispensationalism does it. I mean no criticism with this next statement but the posts increasingly indicate your appreciation, your affinity, for Stanford's teaching has persuaded you into a set of theological positions that are eisegetic, not exegetic. I'll assume that was not and is not your intent. I therefore hope you'll continue to engage this discussion and I hope you will give some genuine consideration to the differences between Dispensationalism and scripture.  

When the Jews translated the Hebrew scripture into Greek (Septuagint) the Greek word they used for "the assembly," the "qahal" was "ekklesia." From their own perspective there is a uniform, cohesive, and direct connect between the assembly of God and those called out by Him. It was Darby, not scripture, that divided the two. Look it up. 

No, there are not.

Scripture explcitly states God has made the two people one people AND the scriptures explicitly state the saints are the people of God, the holy nation of God, the nation of priests. The dividing wall that separated the Jews from the Gentiles has been destroyed. The dividing wall between men and God - all humanity and not just Jews - has been destroyed. This isn't just plainly read scripture; it is Christianity 101. Always pay attention to the audience affiliations stated by scripture. 

I've already covered some of this in previous posts. 

Ephesieans 2:11-22
11Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the [v]saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

This was written to the saints, the Christian, NOT the Jew. This specific passage was written about "the Gentiles in the flesh," those who are not circumcised. The text of scripture actually, factually, specifically, directly, explcitly states the Gentile converts to whom he was writing,

• for a time separated from Christ, 
• for a time the Gentiles were excluded from the people of Israel, 
• strangers to the covenants of the promise (this is one of the few times the word "covenant" is used in the plural, btw)
• ow that they are in Christ things have changed and they now have Jesus as their peace, 
• both groups are made into one,
• the barrier has been broken down,
• they are BOTH (Jewish believers and Gentile believers) "one new person," 
• both have access in one Spirit to God the Father, 
• so the Gentile convert is no longer a stranger or foreigner to either Israel or God, 
• they are fellow citizens (of what nation?) with the saints,
• both are of God's household, both of the household built on the apostles (NT) and the prophets (OT), and Christ, 
• the whole of the two built into a single building, the temple of the Lord, a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

 
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:21-25
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.


Darby separated Israel from the Church, not scripture. Dispensationalism makes that separation, not scripture. Read the scripture and believe it exactly as written, what it actually states, and not what Darby makes it say based on his invented hermeneutic that a priori, eisegetically separates Israel and the Church. 

We can in fact combine Israel and Christians when we correctly define Israel. Israel is not and has never been about a geo-political nation-state or physical bloodline. If and when you lay hold of the New Testament's definition and go back and read the Old Testament you will find a new meaning in the OT wording. What was hidden, veiled, and foreshadowed in the Old has been made known in the New. The newer revelation explains the older revelation! And that is where Darby failed. Darby separated Israel from the Church and took on a Jewish understanding, a Jewish definition of Israel, and he did so despite the fact Jesus himself made it clear "Israel" is not about bloodline or geo-political nation-state status. 

When God gave Israel (the people of promise who live by faith, not bloodline or Law) the Law one of the promises He made was to make them a nation of priests. 

Exodus 19:1-6
In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai. 2When they set out from Rephidim, they came to the wilderness of Sinai and camped in the wilderness; and there Israel camped in front of the mountain. 3And Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, saying, “This is what you shall say to the house of Jacob and tell the sons of Israel: 4‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself. 5Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”

1 Peter 2:4-10
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” 7So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”a 8and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. 9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


It was former Jew who wrote that last passage. It was a Jewish convert to Christ who wrote that. He wrote that passage to CHRISTIANS!!! He wrote that about those sanctified in the Spirit to the obedience of Christ, those sprinkled with the blood of Christ. It was NOT written to our about Jewish converts alone. The apostle Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, penning a newer revelation from God stated the converts to Christ are the promised nation of priests, members of God's holy nation, chosen by God Himself. 

Scripture says otherwise. God quite literally destroyed the entire nation of Israel and despite the fact there is now a country on the east side of the Mediterranean bearing the same name, it has never returned. One of the other promises of the covenant and the Law was the promise of destruction. I have to go right now but I will return to show God's promise of destruction in scripture.