netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 9, 2022 6:22:17 GMT -8
Note: This prologue is a theoretical hypotheses of Israel’s eschatology, and is what I think (and all the Plymouth Brethren) is probably truth; and let us be aware that regardless of what may be considered, it is not essential doctrine, same for any growth truth that has no effect on one’s salvation (i.e. whether or not if one believes salvation is permanent does not affect being saved.)
The Lord has come and many Gentiles have received Him, but still not many of God’s people have received Him; but this will come later, after they see Him (Jhn 20:29). There are those among “God’s people” who presently believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “believing Israel”), but not in is Son. These He has surly saved (still in union but presently out of fellowship), for what is there to be said of the years God has and is dealing with believing Israel; which is saying much more than not believing at all, which has always been the state of the majority of the world. Otherwise a vast majority of the Jews would be lost! There have always been those who believe in God who love Him, thus is the love to them to be finally shunned? God has always returned their hearts to Him and will yet do so one more time—and it will be permanent. Many I’m sure are not familiar with the fact that God has saved the Israelites who believe in Him, by the same method of Christ’ Blood efficacy, as it was “paid forward” (Act 2:2; Rom 3:25; Heb 9:15-22).
The only time that remains for the return to fellowship of believing Israel (to fellowship, not union which has never been broken) is during the Millennium, when they shall finally see Him and believe (but no son-ship in Christ, just a people of God); and this is when they and the Christians will take part in the “first resurrection” (Rev 20:5). The Lord and those with Him will teach Israel what God has prepared for them. Israel now believing in Christ will be the New Earthly representative, with Christ and those who are His instructing Israel (Mat 19:28; Luk 22:30).
The prophecies of Jerimiah and Ezekiel do not be refer to the present covenant of the Christians, because it is a covenant with man; for the present and “everlasting Covenant” is between the Father and the Son, in that the Father raised the Son from the dead after expiating their sins (Heb 13:20, et al). Thus Christians are not in a covenant with God (Benefactor), but are recipients (beneficiaries) of the “Covenant of Redemption”!
Whether or not this is just theory or truth, it thankfully is not essential doctrine, and cannot effect salvation either way it is believed.
The Three Covenants
“Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. (Heb 13:20, 21).
Here we have the word “covenant” (which is so frequently mentioned in chapters 8, 9, 10, 12) and an eternal covenant. It is here we find “the God of peace bringing again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the Great Shepherd of the sheep”—how? “With the Blood of an eternal covenant.” That is, in accordance with the terms of an agreement between the Father and the Son, which terms are seen to be a promise from the Father that if the Son would become “a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death” (Heb 2:9), shedding His Blood for us, the Father would bring Him again from among the dead. The Son came to earth, and became “obedient unto death,” and the Father indeed brought Him again from among the dead. The eternal covenant was kept (“Covenant of Redemption”).
Before we go further, it will be well to look back over the Scripture teaching as to covenants. To make a covenant effective, the parties thereto must be able to fulfill the conditions undertaken. But with fallen man, such fulfillment is unthinkable, impossible. For:
a) Man is a creature, and all the ability must be supplied by God.
b) Man is a fallen creature, and unable to put away his guilt. Therefore the legal covenant of Sinai was, as 2Cor 3:7, 9 says a “ministration of death … condemnation.” It revealed to man his helplessness, but it supplied no strength (yet forgiveness was granted to the obedient, which manifested faith – e.g. Num 15:24-31—NC). We are removed, then, in our consideration of Hebrews 13:20, both from the legal covenant of chapters 8 and 9, and from the future “new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah” (Heb 8:8) because:
a) “The Law (with its covenant) made nothing perfect” (Heb 7:19), and was “disannulled,” “because of its weakness and unprofitableness” (v 18).
b) The “new covenant” to be made with Israel and Judah at our Lord’s return to earth, we have seen is all grace—God’s operation instead of their response (Jer 31:31-24; Ezek 36:24-27; 37:12-14, 21, 23, 25-28). Therefore the “new covenant” which the Hebrew believers to whom Paul was writing had explained to them, was not yet on, nor will be until Christ’s return to earth; and then it will apply to “the house of Israel and the house of Judah,” as God says, in the land of Palestine, with the peculiar earthly blessings described in Scripture.
But—there is yet an eternal covenant, detailed in Hebrews 13:20, in which and according to which Paul knows that all believers may be made perfect in “every good work.” This eternal covenant, in which the God of peace and our Lord Jesus are the Benefactors, and the sheep are the beneficiaries—this covenant is the only covenant which believers should keep in mind as already and eternally fulfilled in its conditions (sacrifice has been made—NC), and available to all.
This is the covenant that was revealed to Paul: “The Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread … in like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My Blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.” This is the Eternal Covenant of which the Lord Jesus is said to be “the Mediator” (9:15), and which is celebrated in the Lord’s Supper, in view of His death, by those benefited forever thereby!
MJS devotional excerpt for July 29
“There are various ways in which as saints we are tried, but through all circumstances God is threading our way, occupying Himself with us, our particular characters, etc., to instruct and develop us. What we want is to realize that our Father loves us so much that He has taken such pains to make us ‘partakers of His holiness’ (Heb. 12:10). We are apt not to believe the activity of His love. Some trouble comes on us; our Father has been watching us individually for weeks, months, years; watching us to bring this trouble which He sees is needed.” –Henry Hugh Snell (1817-1892)
“How varied are the ways in which our Father bringeth down and lifteth up! We have to learn the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ in the bright day as well as in the sorrowful day. If He is everything to me in my brightest day there is no fear, but He will be my chief joy in the day of sorrow.” –MJS |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 10, 2022 2:58:19 GMT -8
I just noticed this post, it`s an interesting topic of discussion. While it isn`t salvific, what a person thinks about the covenants has quite an impact on one's perspective. Replacement theology often begins with the belief that the new covenant is a covenant with Gentiles rather than a covenant with Israel. The soft approach you are taking is nice and all but I don`t favor giving confused Christians any slack on this. The Biblical Covenants are contracts between God and man that were written by God and I believe there have been more than three.
The Bible records God making the first animal sacrifice (Gen 3:21) and (Gen 4) demonstrates a continuation of the practice in the Cain & Abel story. I believe the implication is mercy and a covenant relationship. God made a covenant with Noah from which we get the Noahide laws that the UN wants to implement worldwide. Then there is the Abraham covenant and the Moses covenant. So it appears that 4 covenants precede the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is a contract that has not been fully executed yet and Jesus must return before it will be fully executed. It is not another covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6) but as you note it is a contract with the commonwealth of Israel which will be a worldwide commonwealth in the age to come at which time the New Covenant will be the governing document for the entire earth as Jesus rules from Jerusalem.
Welcome to the forum.
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 10, 2022 7:16:43 GMT -8
I just noticed this post, it`s an interesting topic of discussion. While it isn`t salvific, what a person thinks about the covenants has quite an impact on one's perspective. Replacement theology often begins with the belief that the new covenant is a covenant with Gentiles rather than a covenant with Israel. The soft approach you are taking is nice and all but I don`t favor giving confused Christians any slack on this. The Biblical Covenants are contracts between God and man that were written by God and I believe there have been more than three. Hi, and thanks for the greeting and reply! The covenants referred in this article are primary covenants that overshadow all the particular covenants. I believe many if not most still do not understand that God has temporarily put His people Israel (Jews who believe in God but not in Christ - Jn 14:1) out of fellowship with Him, but never out of union, which is why He always returns them unto Himself. They are quite mistaken when attributing the Body of Christ as Israel. When Scripture speaks of Christianity is uses language that directly applies, such as the Church, the Body or Bride. Scripture is mostly clear that when it uses the word Israel, it means those who are of the progeny and blood of Abraham! The present "Eternal Covenant" (also know as the Covenant of Redemption, which I believe is credible doctrine) is stated that the Father covenanted with His Son to raise Him from the dead if He would expiate their sins (Heb 13:20). Thus making Them the Benefactors, and the believer, beneficiary! Thus, the New Covenant of Jerimiah an Ezekiel will be established during the millennium (Jer 31:31; Eze 36:23-28). Israel (who believe in God - Jn 14:1) inherits the New Earth; and Christians the New Heaven. They will still be a people of God, but no son-ship in Christ! |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 10, 2022 8:08:17 GMT -8
I just noticed this post, it`s an interesting topic of discussion. While it isn`t salvific, what a person thinks about the covenants has quite an impact on one's perspective. Replacement theology often begins with the belief that the new covenant is a covenant with Gentiles rather than a covenant with Israel. The soft approach you are taking is nice and all but I don`t favor giving confused Christians any slack on this. The Biblical Covenants are contracts between God and man that were written by God and I believe there have been more than three. Hi, and thanks for the greeting and reply! The covenants referred in this article are primary covenants that overshadow all the particular covenants. I believe many if not most still do not understand that God has temporarily put His people Israel (Jews who believe in God but not in Christ - Jn 14:1) out of fellowship with Him, but never out of union, which is why He always returns them unto Himself. They are quite mistaken when attributing the Body of Christ as Israel. When Scripture speaks of Christianity is uses language that directly applies, such as the Church, the Body or Bride. Scripture is mostly clear that when it uses the word Israel, it means those who are of the progeny and blood of Abraham! The present "Eternal Covenant" (also know as the Covenant of Redemption, which I believe is credible doctrine) is stated that the Father covenanted with His Son to raise Him from the dead if He would expiate their sins (Heb 13:20). Thus making Them the Benefactors, and the believer, beneficiary! Thus, the New Covenant of Jerimiah an Ezekiel will be established during the millennium (Jer 31:31; Eze 36:23-28). Israel (who believe in God - Jn 14:1) inherits the New Earth; and Christians the New Heaven. They will still be a people of God, but no son-ship in Christ! There will not be a new earth until the end of the next age and which group do you claim are not sons? Jews or Gentiles? |
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netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 10, 2022 10:26:00 GMT -8
There will not be a new earth until the end of the next age and which group do you claim are not sons? Jews or Gentiles? Jews who do not believe in Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1). |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 10, 2022 11:27:22 GMT -8
Believing in God does not relieve them of the responsibility to believe in Jesus. Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 11, 2022 5:29:47 GMT -8
Believing in God does not relieve them of the responsibility to believe in Jesus. Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. "There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Act 4:12). Believing Israel (Jhn 14:1) will not inherit son-ship but will remain a people of God. To go to Heaven you must believe in Jesus, thus Israel will inherit the New Earth; and the Christians the New Heaven. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 11, 2022 7:56:02 GMT -8
Believing in God does not relieve them of the responsibility to believe in Jesus. Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. "There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Act 4:12). Believing Israel (Jhn 14:1) will not inherit son-ship but will remain a people of God. To go to Heaven you must believe in Jesus, thus Israel will inherit the New Earth; and the Christians the New Heaven. There aren`t any scriptures that offer salvation to people who have heard of Jesus and reject him. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. There aren`t any scriptures that say Jews who do not believe in Jesus will inherit New Earth |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 11, 2022 9:17:31 GMT -8
"There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Act 4:12). Believing Israel (Jhn 14:1) will not inherit son-ship but will remain a people of God. To go to Heaven you must believe in Jesus, thus Israel will inherit the New Earth; and the Christians the New Heaven. There aren`t any scriptures that say Jews who do not believe in Jesus will inherit New Earth Israel, or the Jews believing in God will be saved, but without son-ship and heaven without Christ (Jer 31:31-24; Ezek 36:24-27; 37:12-14, 21, 23, 25-28). I know of no Scriptures that say Christians inherit the new earth. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 11, 2022 9:33:58 GMT -8
There aren`t any scriptures that say Jews who do not believe in Jesus will inherit New Earth Israel, or the Jews believing in God will be saved, but without son-ship and heaven without Christ (Jer 31:31-24; Ezek 36:24-27; 37:12-14, 21, 23, 25-28). I know of no Scriptures that say Christians inherit the new earth. Then let me give you one Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? The passages you are attempting to use pertain to the next Age. The new heaven and earth will not come to pass until after that concludes, until eternity arrives. 1 Cor. 15 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. |
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netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 11, 2022 10:47:32 GMT -8
Israel, or the Jews believing in God will be saved, but without son-ship and heaven without Christ (Jer 31:31-24; Ezek 36:24-27; 37:12-14, 21, 23, 25-28). I know of no Scriptures that say Christians inherit the new earth. Then let me give you one Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? The passages you are attempting to use pertain to the next Age. The new heaven and earth will not come to pass until after that concludes, until eternity arrives. 1 Cor. 15 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. This all speaks of Christianity, but the article refers to Israel's new law and statutes (Jer 31:33; Eze 36:27). |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 11, 2022 14:24:35 GMT -8
Then let me give you one Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? The passages you are attempting to use pertain to the next Age. The new heaven and earth will not come to pass until after that concludes, until eternity arrives. 1 Cor. 15 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. This all speaks of Christianity, but the article refers to Israel's new law and statutes (Jer 31:33; Eze 36:27). All the passages you are citing are for the next age, the time period revealed in Rev 20:1-9. They do not depict the New Earth which will have no seas Jer. 31:35-36 |
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netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 12, 2022 4:38:40 GMT -8
This all speaks of Christianity, but the article refers to Israel's new law and statutes (Jer 31:33; Eze 36:27). All the passages you are citing are for the next age, the time period revealed in Rev 20:1-9. They do not depict the New Earth which will have no seas Jer. 31:35-36 Yes, the next and final dispensation is the Millennium on this old earth. Then eternity begins with the New Heaven and New Earth! |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 12, 2022 4:50:45 GMT -8
All the passages you are citing are for the next age, the time period revealed in Rev 20:1-9. They do not depict the New Earth which will have no seas Jer. 31:35-36 Yes, the next and final dispensation is the Millennium on this old earth. Then eternity begins with the New Heaven and New Earth! Right! But all those unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies concerning Israel will be fulfilled during the Millennium and in that time period everyone on earth will know Jesus and all the Israelies will be saved. We Gentiles are adopted into the Commonwealth at the Isaac generation which gives Gentile nations equal status with the 12 tribes of Israel. We inherit the Kingdom together. Unfortunately for the Jews though, a Jew who rejects Jesus is in just as much, maybe even more trouble than a Gentile who rejects Jesus. For any person who has heard of Jesus Christ simply believing in God isn`t enough. |
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netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Sept 12, 2022 5:10:54 GMT -8
Yes, the next and final dispensation is the Millennium on this old earth. Then eternity begins with the New Heaven and New Earth! We inherit the Kingdom together. Israel inherits the New Earth; and the Christians rule with Christ over the New Earth from the New Heaven. |
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