|
|
Post by Obadiah on Aug 9, 2022 4:28:36 GMT -8
I wish I had a spiritual tractor for my life bro, been hard plowing. I hear that... but the good news is you made it and your safe in the loving arms of Jesus. I like that old saying "If it doesn't kill you, it will make your stronger". And it is easy to tell that you are strong in our Lord. Our strength is in Him. He is better than any tractor out there. Not to jump on the "name it and clam it" band wagon. Say To This Mountain – Move. Jesus one day spoke to His disciples some of the most exciting, optimistic, and yet most misunderstood words in all of Scripture, when He said to them in Matthew 17:20, “…for truly I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you.”. Your faith and prayers are your spiritual tractor. Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power." |
|
|
|
Post by Obadiah on Aug 18, 2022 13:15:07 GMT -8
I wish I had a spiritual tractor for my life bro, been hard plowing. I hear that... but the good news is you made it and your safe in the loving arms of Jesus. I like that old saying "If it doesn't kill you, it will make your stronger". And it is easy to tell that you are strong in our Lord. Our strength is in Him. He is better than any tractor out there. Not to jump on the "name it and clam it" band wagon. Say To This Mountain – Move. Jesus one day spoke to His disciples some of the most exciting, optimistic, and yet most misunderstood words in all of Scripture, when He said to them in Matthew 17:20, “…for truly I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you.”. Your faith and prayers are your spiritual tractor. Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power."
To some people, Lordship salvation is a different gospel. According to those who oppose the concept of Lordship salvation, they claim that by stipulating that Jesus must be Lord to ensure salvation advocates salvation by works. Dive Deeper> |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2022 12:02:44 GMT -8
Here's a simple observation: The word "Lord" occurs 50 times in this thread prior to this post I now write. Half of those uses occur in a single post and that poster is the only one posting scripture abundantly and diversely on the matter of what scripture itself states about Jesus as Lord and that condition's relevance to salvation. Everything else is predominantly extra-biblical, post-biblical, and human invention.
And that is just ironic, given the title of this op.
Is the phrase "Lordship salvation" found explicitly stated in scripture?
Howabout the phrase "Savior salvation"?
We know every knee will eventually confess Christ as Lord (Phil. 2), but not everyone will confess him as Savior (Jn. 3; Mt. 7; Gal. 6; Rev. 20). How come the correct term is not "Lordship Savior salvation"?
|
|
|
|
Post by Aussie Pete on Aug 20, 2022 19:03:47 GMT -8
The difficulty arises because there are two salvations. The first is to be born again. That is instantaneous and costs nothing. The second salvation is the salvation of the soul. That is progressive and costs everything.
I knew nothing of the Lordship of Christ when I got born again. I was convicted of my sin, scared of hell and I received Christ like a drowning man clutching at a life raft. I received Christ as saviour at that time. I know that I was born again. Something within me changed and I knew it.
These days, much preaching is more like an appeal to join some kind of bless me club. Most people who attend church are not born again. That is my observation over a period of 50 years and it is also statistically backed up. The word "Christian" is far too loosely applied. Many leaders fear offending their church attenders. Who will pay the bills if half the congregation spits the dummy and leaves? And that is why the church appears to be divided, "Christians" lukewarm, church attendance falling in many places and self centred "worship" replacing good teaching. I have to wear earplugs at one place I visit from time to time.
Once a person is born again, lordship of Christ should be taught. The new, born again spirit accepts this joyfully. The natural man of the soul rebels. So a conflict arises. Those who choose to go God's way will experience trials but they lead to growth. Those who cling to self will suffer, but that is self inflicted. It hopefully leads to capitulation to the Lordship of Christ. The sooner we hand over our lives to Christ the better. We need to know that God's ways are infinitely better than ours.
One problem is that the word "salvation" has been demeaned, coming to mean "going to heaven when you die". That is a shallow definition and leads to a shallow Christianity. "Salvation" means deliverance. Some see the gospel like a life belt, keeping people afloat until Jesus comes or they die. The gospel is to take people out of this drowning world and to bring us into the "ark" of Christ.
We are supposed to be preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus is King of the Kingdom!
|
|
|
|
Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 2:00:09 GMT -8
I never heard of Lordship Salvation till about a year ago. Since then, I have done quite a bit of study on this topic. I'm looking forward to reading some posts here on your thoughts. I think that the gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus’ message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. Sadly, I think we still find a lot of hypocrisy in the Church. But the offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. Paul describes the kingdom as a present reality: “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” So, the gospel of Jesus puts sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God’s righteousness. Our Lord’s words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 7:13-23It seems like today's evangelicalism ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and shallower, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person’s behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ or any real change in their lifestyle. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him. This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as “easy-believism,” stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as Lordship Salvation. It is not a "works salvation" it's about obedience. It's in the Bible. In Romans 12:1, Paul says, “I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.” Yes, faith is the doorway to true obedience as it’s the doorway to God, the Source of all righteousness. Fallen man is alienated from Him and the new covenant is all about being reunited with Him. “ I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.” Jer 31:33-34 He gives us a new righteousness, the true one that we were created for, and then we’re responsible for remaining in Him, walking in that light, in that love, to put it most correctly. Man was made for communion with God. “ Apart from Me you can do nothing.” John 15:5 Lordship salvation sounds like an attempt to get back on track BTW, with the true old-time religion as the early church and ECFs understood it. |
|
|
|
Post by Obadiah on Aug 21, 2022 2:53:44 GMT -8
Here's a simple observation: The word "Lord" occurs 50 times in this thread prior to this post I now write. Half of those uses occur in a single post and that poster is the only one posting scripture abundantly and diversely on the matter of what scripture itself states about Jesus as Lord and that condition's relevance to salvation. Everything else is predominantly extra-biblical, post-biblical, and human invention. And that is just ironic, given the title of this op. Is the phrase "Lordship salvation" found explicitly stated in scripture? Howabout the phrase "Savior salvation"? We know every knee will eventually confess Christ as Lord (Phil. 2), but not everyone will confess him as Savior (Jn. 3; Mt. 7; Gal. 6; Rev. 20). How come the correct term is not "Lordship Savior salvation"? I like it! "Lordship Savior salvation" works for me. Good point. Jesus is Lord and my salvation. Lord be my Light and be my Salvation. The Crristian Rock group Dc Talk says it this way: I keep trying to find a life On my own apart from you I am the king of excuses I've got one for every selfish thing I do Tell me what's going on inside of me I despise my own behavior This only serves to confirm my suspicions That I'm still a man in need of a Savior I wanna be in the Light As You are in the Light I wanna shine like the stars In the Heavens Oh, Lord be my light And be my Salvation 'Cause all I want is to be in the Light All I want is to be in the Light This disease of self runs through my blood (through my blood) It's a cancer fatal to my soul Every attempt on my behalf has failed To bring this sickness under control Tell me what's going on inside of me I despise my own behavior This only serves to confirm my suspicions That I'm still a man in need of a Savior I can so relate to this song. |
|
|
|
Post by Obadiah on Aug 21, 2022 5:57:49 GMT -8
Sounds like you're not doing so good at Lordship Salvation. Do you think you'll be holy enough to squeak in? I'm counting on Jesus and His finished work on the cross to get me in. But if all else fails don't forget I have the big shiny John Deere tractor, It for sure will help me sneak in. No squeaks in that tractor I keep it polished and oiled. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 5:22:00 GMT -8
What is the difference between an ABBA Father, and a Lord?
Abba in the greek is a term of endearment, In the english it is like a child who goes to their father and calls him Daddy! It is a term of love, A dad is someone who loves his child. Someone who the child does not fear. Someone who the child respects and loves back. The child is not afraid to come to their dad even when they do wrong, because they know that even though the dad may discipline the child. He does it out of love.
This is what God calls himself for us
2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind
Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father”
I grew up in a lordship salvation kind of church. I was actually embarrassed when we went on visitation. Where the men in my church would tell people they must give up their sins and make God lord or they would go to hell. I saw people in the church walk away. Because instead of trying to help people who struggled with sin, they instead judged them, even called their salvation in question. The old, “if you had enough faith you would stop”
While I agree, this is true to some extent. Sometimes our faith needs help. God tells us to confess our sins to one another that we may be healed. He would not tell us that if we could stop sin on our own by just “having enough faith” In the same token. Why would we confess our sin when we know we will not ever get help. But get judgment? Kicked out of church. Or be told we must not be saved.
True discipleship comes from having the freedom to be open. The freedom to not be afraid. Of knowing you will not be judged. Where you can talk, and get help (help each other0 with the areas of struggle. While also knowing there are some things, that if you do not repent and resist change after a time of prayer, confession and going through the word and tryign to get to the root. There is a call to ask someone to step out of church until the repent (church discipline) But this is not lordship acting. This is a daddy acting. The lord disciplines those who he loves..
I have seen drug addicts. Drunks, Sexually promiscuous people who would have been condemned at what I SEE as a lordship church. Find healing and overcame these addictions in a true discipleship church. One of the leaders in my church before he came to Christ was an openly Gay, dug addicted addict who hated God because all the churches kept condemning him and telling him there was no hope. Until leaders in my church showed him love and compassion (much like Jesus did when he walked with the prostitutes and tax gatherers) and this love drew him to the people of my church, he ended up hitting rock bottom and called out to God for salvation. And has since been completely healed of his drug addiction and has a beautiful wife and three children, and is and has helped many people who were just like him find the same grace and healing he found that only comes through Christ.
Sadly, My church has been labeled as one of these licentious churches. Because they allow these people to walk into their doors. And showed them grace and forgiveness.. And I will admit. They are not 100% effective. There are many who never repent and are eventually asked to leave.
Now I Agree, there are churches that are out there who let sin run rampant in their churches. And it seems to get worse (we have churches that have openly gay or lesbian ministers etc etc. And this we need to take a stand..
anyway. My rant. Forgive
|
|
|
|
Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 5:32:37 GMT -8
I don't have a problem with Lordship salvation since Christ Jesus is my Lord and great God and Savior. J.
Think a little more about demands and self-effort, instead of letting God do it all.
Think about a focus on mercy from God, versus performance and achievement.
Grace in the end, always helps be more holy—so why not focus on it?
Pride.
We do find in numerous placed in scripture similar word/phrases such as those who endure until the end, finishing the race, abiding in me, continuing, faithfulness, bearing fruit, doing good works that we should walk in them, etc.......... All the above being mans responsibility to do, to be by obedience. God does not do those things for us but when we are resting in Him by faith these become natural since we are yielding to the Holy Spirits will in our lives and not living in the flesh but the Spirit. We have so many such commands from Jesus and the Apostles regarding our sanctification which is synergistic, not monergistic. Even RC Sproul affirms sanctification is synergistic. hope this helps !!! |
|
|
|
Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 5:34:04 GMT -8
What is the difference between an ABBA Father, and a Lord? Abba in the greek is a term of endearment, In the english it is like a child who goes to their father and calls him Daddy! It is a term of love, A dad is someone who loves his child. Someone who the child does not fear. Someone who the child respects and loves back. The child is not afraid to come to their dad even when they do wrong, because they know that even though the dad may discipline the child. He does it out of love. This is what God calls himself for us 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father” I grew up in a lordship salvation kind of church. I was actually embarrassed when we went on visitation. Where the men in my church would tell people they must give up their sins and make God lord or they would go to hell. I saw people in the church walk away. Because instead of trying to help people who struggled with sin, they instead judged them, even called their salvation in question. The old, “if you had enough faith you would stop” While I agree, this is true to some extent. Sometimes our faith needs help. God tells us to confess our sins to one another that we may be healed. He would not tell us that if we could stop sin on our own by just “having enough faith” In the same token. Why would we confess our sin when we know we will not ever get help. But get judgment? Kicked out of church. Or be told we must not be saved. True discipleship comes from having the freedom to be open. The freedom to not be afraid. Of knowing you will not be judged. Where you can talk, and get help (help each other0 with the areas of struggle. While also knowing there are some things, that if you do not repent and resist change after a time of prayer, confession and going through the word and tryign to get to the root. There is a call to ask someone to step out of church until the repent (church discipline) But this is not lordship acting. This is a daddy acting. The lord disciplines those who he loves.. I have seen drug addicts. Drunks, Sexually promiscuous people who would have been condemned at what I SEE as a lordship church. Find healing and overcame these addictions in a true discipleship church. One of the leaders in my church before he came to Christ was an openly Gay, dug addicted addict who hated God because all the churches kept condemning him and telling him there was no hope. Until leaders in my church showed him love and compassion (much like Jesus did when he walked with the prostitutes and tax gatherers) and this love drew him to the people of my church, he ended up hitting rock bottom and called out to God for salvation. And has since been completely healed of his drug addiction and has a beautiful wife and three children, and is and has helped many people who were just like him find the same grace and healing he found that only comes through Christ. Sadly, My church has been labeled as one of these licentious churches. Because they allow these people to walk into their doors. And showed them grace and forgiveness.. And I will admit. They are not 100% effective. There are many who never repent and are eventually asked to leave. Now I Agree, there are churches that are out there who let sin run rampant in their churches. And it seems to get worse (we have churches that have openly gay or lesbian ministers etc etc. And this we need to take a stand.. anyway. My rant. Forgive Thanks for sharing and you are right true discipleship is the key and its greatly lacking in most every church in America. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 6:28:26 GMT -8
What is the difference between an ABBA Father, and a Lord? Abba in the greek is a term of endearment, In the english it is like a child who goes to their father and calls him Daddy! It is a term of love, A dad is someone who loves his child. Someone who the child does not fear. Someone who the child respects and loves back. The child is not afraid to come to their dad even when they do wrong, because they know that even though the dad may discipline the child. He does it out of love. This is what God calls himself for us 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father” I grew up in a lordship salvation kind of church. I was actually embarrassed when we went on visitation. Where the men in my church would tell people they must give up their sins and make God lord or they would go to hell. I saw people in the church walk away. Because instead of trying to help people who struggled with sin, they instead judged them, even called their salvation in question. The old, “if you had enough faith you would stop” While I agree, this is true to some extent. Sometimes our faith needs help. God tells us to confess our sins to one another that we may be healed. He would not tell us that if we could stop sin on our own by just “having enough faith” In the same token. Why would we confess our sin when we know we will not ever get help. But get judgment? Kicked out of church. Or be told we must not be saved. True discipleship comes from having the freedom to be open. The freedom to not be afraid. Of knowing you will not be judged. Where you can talk, and get help (help each other0 with the areas of struggle. While also knowing there are some things, that if you do not repent and resist change after a time of prayer, confession and going through the word and tryign to get to the root. There is a call to ask someone to step out of church until the repent (church discipline) But this is not lordship acting. This is a daddy acting. The lord disciplines those who he loves.. I have seen drug addicts. Drunks, Sexually promiscuous people who would have been condemned at what I SEE as a lordship church. Find healing and overcame these addictions in a true discipleship church. One of the leaders in my church before he came to Christ was an openly Gay, dug addicted addict who hated God because all the churches kept condemning him and telling him there was no hope. Until leaders in my church showed him love and compassion (much like Jesus did when he walked with the prostitutes and tax gatherers) and this love drew him to the people of my church, he ended up hitting rock bottom and called out to God for salvation. And has since been completely healed of his drug addiction and has a beautiful wife and three children, and is and has helped many people who were just like him find the same grace and healing he found that only comes through Christ. Sadly, My church has been labeled as one of these licentious churches. Because they allow these people to walk into their doors. And showed them grace and forgiveness.. And I will admit. They are not 100% effective. There are many who never repent and are eventually asked to leave. Now I Agree, there are churches that are out there who let sin run rampant in their churches. And it seems to get worse (we have churches that have openly gay or lesbian ministers etc etc. And this we need to take a stand.. anyway. My rant. Forgive Rom_1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom_1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom_4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Rom_4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom_5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
eternallygrateful
How do you read the scriptures?
Christ Jesus not our Lord?!
J.
Good day my friend. I am discussing what I see in Lordship Salvation ( a group of people or a doctrine, such as calvinism, or catholicism etc etc) at least what I have witnessed from a lordship salvation type of church ( While yes. Jesus is our lord. And will always be. He is more importantly our father. We are adopted as sons. And given that right based on our faith in his word. Not on not on what we promise to do after we are saved. (How many promises have you made that you have not kept? I can think of many) Do you have anything to say about what I posted? What I experienced and what I have seen. I woudl love to hear your thoughts on that. |
|
|
|
Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 6:47:33 GMT -8
We do find in numerous placed in scripture similar word/phrases such as those who endure until the end, finishing the race, abiding in me, continuing, faithfulness, bearing fruit, doing good works that we should walk in them, etc.......... All the above being mans responsibility to do, to be by obedience. God does not do those things for us but when we are resting in Him by faith these become natural since we are yielding to the Holy Spirits will in our lives and not living in the flesh but the Spirit. We have so many such commands from Jesus and the Apostles regarding our sanctification which is synergistic, not monergistic. Even RC Sproul affirms sanctification is synergistic. hope this helps !!!
It's like my point completely flew over you.
You really want to be zealous for holiness and endure to the end and take up your cross and deny yourself?
Start by be willing to admit that you could try to do this in your own goodness and efforts instead of admitting how bad and incapable you are.
Start by admitting self-righteous spiritual pride and propensity towards trying to merit and achieve something with God are the very worst and most dangerous and prevalent enemies a believer faces.
A focus on striving for holiness just encourages a sense one is achieving it by mere external actions, and not by a deep humble admission of how evil the heart is.
To the point that just getting done some "good works" and then giving one's heart to worldly entertainment is seen as "the high call of God."
Pharisaical deception is not beyond any of us.
If you read my post you would see it wasn't " self effort " works based as per Ephesians 2:8-10 created for good works that we should walk in them and James 2 faith without works is a dead faith. hope this helps !!! |
|
|
|
Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 6:57:38 GMT -8
So here we have Jesus and the Apostles affirming personal holiness/obedience.
Jesus teaching
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?
Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it
John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples
John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you
John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments
John the disciple whom Jesus loved teaching:
1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1 John 2
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 2
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
Paul's teaching:
Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be !
Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Colossians 3
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.
Peters Teaching
1 Peter 1
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 4
As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.
2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
hope this helps !!!
|
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 7:26:32 GMT -8
Good day my friend. I am discussing what I see in Lordship Salvation ( a group of people or a doctrine, such as calvinism, or catholicism etc etc) at least what I have witnessed from a lordship salvation type of church ( While yes. Jesus is our lord. And will always be. He is more importantly our father. We are adopted as sons. And given that right based on our faith in his word. Not on not on what we promise to do after we are saved. (How many promises have you made that you have not kept? I can think of many) Do you have anything to say about what I posted? What I experienced and what I have seen. I woudl love to hear your thoughts on that. No, I am not here to share opinions and experiences, only what stands written, Perfect Tense. J. This thread is on lordship salvation. It is a particular gospel that has been preached since I was a child (I am 56 years old now) and most likely longer than that. That is what my post was on. Is Jesus Lord? Yes Is Jesus our Daddy? yes Both are correct. And both are written perfect tense Is lordship salvation (A gospel or doctrine that is proclaimed by some churches) correct? I believe this is what we are discussing. And I am saying I do not agree with that gospel |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 7:36:48 GMT -8
I would like to add I do not believe one has to teach or promote lordship salvation in order to promote obedience to God.
in the same token. I do not think we should think because someone disagrees with the “doctrines” of what Lordship salvation teaches (at least what I have witnessed them to teach) is not teaching obedience to Gods commands.
This is another one of those topics where I really wish we would discuss the word. And not a doctrine or doctrines promoted by a group of people.
Its like saying Grace people who believe in eternal security do not teach obedience but licentiousness. That is not true. Fare from it..
Obedience according to the word comes from a few thngs
1. The love of God. He pours out his love on us, and we take that love and share it with others (this gets our focus off self and teaches us to love others. Knowing our needs are met)
2. The knowledge that we are secure in christ. If My eternity is already settled. I can focus on eternity. And not worry about what happens today. Not only can that (in its greatest sense) make the tribulations of this life appear as a momentary light affliction (see paul). But when we do fall. We have a father we can boldly come knowing he will (not might) forgive us because we are his beloved children.
3. The knowledge of the world and self. Knowing the ways of the world. And the way we deceive ourselves help us to not only recognize when we see these things and go to God and others in prayer before these temptations take hold. But make it easier if we do not get help in time and do fall. To see what has really happened and makes it easier to not only repent, but recognize the chastening of God.
Legalism of any type has never in the history of mankind helped a person be righteous.. Oh they may appear righteous according to laws.. But that is not what makes a person righteous, We have the example of the pharisees to see this.. According to the law more righteous than anyone (well except christ. But according to Gods righteousness, filthy decrepit, immoral beings who need christ.
|
|
