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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 8:01:43 GMT -8
This thread is on lordship salvation. It is a particular gospel that has been preached since I was a child (I am 56 years old now) and most likely longer than that. That is what my post was on. Is Jesus Lord? Yes Is Jesus our Daddy? yes Both are correct. And both are written perfect tense Is lordship salvation (A gospel or doctrine that is proclaimed by some churches) correct? I believe this is what we are discussing. And I am saying I do not agree with that gospel I don't have the foggiest idea what "churches/churchianity" are promulgating today eternallygrateful, I read the scriptures, I read Messiah is Lord, and so I believe and if this is "Lordship salvation" so be it. Jesus is lord is not the jist of what the doctrine of lordship salvation is. It goes way deeper than this, if all it was was the teaching that Jesus is lord. I would agree with you, But its not, That is what I have been trying to say. So you posting all these verses on how Jesus is lord is not helping. Because that is not discussing what Lordship salvation is. IF all it was was the discussion that Jesus is lord. When everyone here would agree. I appreciate you are here to discuss Gods word. I am here to do the same. But there will be topics here (like calvinism, Arminianism. Pre-Millennialism, Post Millennialism, Amillenialism, Grace vs works, Lordship salvation, Grace salvation,etc etc.) that are more than just discussing the word. It is discussion of ideas and doctrines which are prevalent in the churches. And discussing the beliefs of those who follow those teachings.
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Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 8:20:35 GMT -8
Jesus is lord is not the jist of what the doctrine of lordship salvation is. It goes way deeper than this, if all it was was the teaching that Jesus is lord. I would agree with you, But its not, That is what I have been trying to say. So you posting all these verses on how Jesus is lord is not helping. Because that is not discussing what Lordship salvation is. IF all it was was the discussion that Jesus is lord. When everyone here would agree. I appreciate you are here to discuss Gods word. I am here to do the same. But there will be topics here (like calvinism, Arminianism. Pre-Millennialism, Post Millennialism, Amillenialism, Grace vs works, Lordship salvation, Grace salvation,etc etc.) that are more than just discussing the word. It is discussion of ideas and doctrines which are prevalent in the churches. And discussing the beliefs of those who follow those teachings. Guess I am out of the race on this. J. We are all in the same race as Paul says . So let’s finish this race brother and endure till the end
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 8:25:44 GMT -8
Jesus is lord is not the jist of what the doctrine of lordship salvation is. It goes way deeper than this, if all it was was the teaching that Jesus is lord. I would agree with you, But its not, That is what I have been trying to say. So you posting all these verses on how Jesus is lord is not helping. Because that is not discussing what Lordship salvation is. IF all it was was the discussion that Jesus is lord. When everyone here would agree. I appreciate you are here to discuss Gods word. I am here to do the same. But there will be topics here (like calvinism, Arminianism. Pre-Millennialism, Post Millennialism, Amillenialism, Grace vs works, Lordship salvation, Grace salvation,etc etc.) that are more than just discussing the word. It is discussion of ideas and doctrines which are prevalent in the churches. And discussing the beliefs of those who follow those teachings. Guess I am out of the race on this. J. It gets frustrating I know.. Thats why I myself would rather just discuss the word..
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 8:36:50 GMT -8
I don't have the foggiest idea what "churches/churchianity" are promulgating today eternallygrateful, I read the scriptures, I read Messiah is Lord, and so I believe and if this is "Lordship salvation" so be it. I joined this Berean forum to be edified and so far, so good. I believe Paul summed it up correctly... 1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1Co_1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co_2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co_2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 2Co_13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal_3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal_6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
www.preceptaustin.org/1_corinthians_commentaries#:~:text=INTRODUCTORY%20THOUGHTS
See what was happening in the "church?" I believe this is happening on a global basis.
Shalom J.
Thanks for the editing Admin, I can be like a bull in a china shop, sometimes. J. I agree with Paul. The corinthian church had gotten so deep in sin, and The fact that they were still babes in christ (a lack of maturity) the church as a whole needed called out by Paul, I believe a church gets this out of hand when discipleship is not properly administered through the ranks. Sin like leaven, leaven’s the whole lump. It gets to the point where sin is excused. Or not seen as so bad. So that even those who love God turn a blind eye to it for fear they will be called out. We saw this in the church at Corinth, so bad had it gotten that even a man sleeping with his fathers wife was allowed and overlooked. This is BAD! And must have someone like paul come in to help them repent. But to me, This is just as dangerous as the legalistic church who takes the other extreme and shows no grace of any kind to to any of its people. They forget that just because one gets saved, they are not going to be a super mature believer, where all their sin issues disappear. And if they do not straighten up and fly right they are cast out as lost people. Both churches in my view are just as guilty of promoting the wrong idea.
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Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 8:38:13 GMT -8
Guess I am out of the race on this. J. It gets frustrating I know.. Thats why I myself would rather just discuss the word.. yes as the Bible says let God be true ( His Holy word ) and every man found to be a liar. Sanctify them in truth , Thy word is truth . Amen 🙏
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Post by Parker on Sept 7, 2022 8:58:59 GMT -8
Faith that works through loveGal. 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love I think it has become very common in evangelical churches in recent years to hear preachers attacking the doctrine of lordship salvation. And that new phrase makes it sound as if the preacher who opposes it opposes some novel theological position. The fact is, however, that what is now being called lordship salvation is simply historic Protestant theology! What is novel is this present-day opposition to that theology and that gospel. To understand Zane Hodges, the “no-lordship” position’s chief advocate, however, and to understand the great appeal of his theology for many evangelicals, you must understand that his motive in all that he says can appear to be solidly biblical. Indeed, it can appear to be most commendable and vitally important. To understand Hodges’s theology you must recognize that all that he says is geared to preserving in its purity the gospel of justification by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Justification is by faith, as Paul explains in the first five chapters of his letter to the Romans. And, as Martin Luther wrote in the margin of his copy of that letter, it is by faith ALONE! Just remember that, Hodges says, and then everything else that the New Testament talks about will fall into place and you will see that none of it has any relationship to the believer’s justification—that is to say, to his or her eternal salvation, the possession of eternal life. If you understand what Hodges has said there, you already know what he will say about every Christian virtue spoken of in the New Testament. You already know what he is going to say in every chapter on every subject in his books. Repenting of my sin, becoming Christ’s disciple, obeying Christ, manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, doing good works, loving God and my neighbor, even the matter of whether I go on believing in Christ, of continuing in my faith—no matter what good things you might want to say in favor of any of those responses, or even of all of them, none of that can have any bearing whatsoever on whether I have eternal life. To say that it does, Hodges insists, is to fall into the Roman Catholic error, which is the same at root as the Judaizing error that Paul faced—that is, the error of believing that salvation is by works, or perhaps by faith and works. Hodges speaks of “the idea” that “has gained ground that true saving faith is somehow distinguishable from false kinds of faith, primarily by means of its results or ‘fruits.’ ” But that, Hodges insists, is a totally unbiblical idea. Now, it might surprise the reader greatly, that “by their fruits shall you know them” is a totally unbiblical idea. That a person’s possession of eternal life in Christ is necessarily evidenced by that person’s life of faith, hope, love, joy, peace, kindness, self-control—is thought to be a totally unbiblical idea. I certainly hope that you would immediately think of many New Testament passages to which you could turn to refute Hodges, passages like: 1 John 2–3 James 2Passages that insist that true faith in Christ is a faith that works through love (Gal. 5:6).
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