|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 15, 2022 5:24:12 GMT -8
Psa 34:18 Jehovah is near to the broken-hearted; and saves those who are of a contrite spirit.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
And we know why he saved them. He saved them because they had a contrite spirit or that they chose humility. Notice he didn't impart in them contrition and humility AND THEN he saved them. They chose to have humility towards God's word and salvation followed!
God can't put in one actual humility. God can humble his people BUT that IS NOT humility. Deuteronomy 8:3 says God humbled them, and suffered them to hunger, and fed them with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." However that didn't mean they had humility! They could still get offended in pride and complain and murmur to God and begin to worship other gods which they did most of the time and that certainly wasn't humility.
Calvinism says God saves those that he just chooses too. Good to know the way in which his choice is made....do they choose to walk in humility? Do they receive Jesus as their Lord and King and be glad that they've done so! James says that God resists the proud so if he resists them how can he saved them. Impossible! He does NOT put humility in them. He does not put humility in any one. In James 4:6 we read God resists the proud BUT...he gives his GRACE unto the ones that have humility. There's no indication there that God put anything in them relative to salvation at all! Why? Because they have pride. When Jesus was on the cross the two on each side of him....one chose humility and asked for God's mercy and Jesus said he'd be with him now in paradise....the other not. Lk 23:43 God is merely observing and watching what type of spirit THEY CHOSE to have.
In Luke 18:19 we read, "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.(in other words he walked in pride) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."(he embraced humility) "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
Notice NO INDICATION God imparted humility or pride in either. God merely observed and responded to whatever spirit THEY CHOSE to have. To actually say God puts humility in one which we would say would be a type of blessing is however to say God would do something he's already said he doesn't do! HE GIVE HIS GRACE....TO.....THE ONE WHO CHOOSES HUMILITY. Not to the ones which haven't. This would mean what Calvinists call their doctrines of Grace aren't actually in truth the doctrines of Grace for grace doesn't work in the way in which they think. That's not to say many Calvinists aren't saved but many things they think about GRACE need to be adjusted.
|
|
|
|
Post by civic on Sept 15, 2022 5:39:55 GMT -8
I can testify to the fact the day I was saved I was more broken at age 20 then I have ever been in my life. There was an event that happened where my sins caused the terrible things that occurred that day and I had been running from God putting Him off for sometime. I came before the Lord in my bedroom as a broken young man with not an ounce of pride left in me as it was my pride that caused all my problems in the first place. I wept, pleaded for mercy and forgiveness of my horrible sins that not only caused myself pain but also the ones I loved most whom I hurt. That evening God gave me a new heart, mind, spirit and I became a new man. I knew Christ had forgiven me, cleaned me and given me a desire to love, obey and please Him. I was not a reader by any means and from that day forward I could not get enough of Gods word, desiring to know Him and study became a daily habit of mine along with prayer, meditation and memorizing scripture. Within a year God restored the broken relationship I had with my girlfriend ( my wife now  ) and she became saved after sharing the gospel with her. She had heard I had changed and it was real so she gave me a chance again. The rest as they say is history. |
|
|
|
Post by civic on Sept 15, 2022 5:41:28 GMT -8
PS Im banned on carm but I can see as a lurker. Im glad you posted it there too brother !
|
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 7:55:20 GMT -8
I can testify to the fact the day I was saved I was more broken at age 20 then I have ever been in my life. There was an event that happened where my sins caused the terrible things that occurred that day and I had been running from God putting Him off for sometime. I came before the Lord in my bedroom as a broken young man with not an ounce of pride left in me as it was my pride that caused all my problems in the first place. I wept, pleaded for mercy and forgiveness of my horrible sins that not only caused myself pain but also the ones I loved most whom I hurt. That evening God gave me a new heart, mind, spirit and I became a new man. I knew Christ had forgiven me, cleaned me and given me a desire to love, obey and please Him. I was not a reader by any means and from that day forward I could not get enough of Gods word, desiring to know Him and study became a daily habit of mine along with prayer, meditation and memorizing scripture. Within a year God restored the broken relationship I had with my girlfriend ( my wife now ) and she became saved after sharing the gospel with her. She had heard I had changed and it was real so she gave me a chance again. The rest as they say is history. Glad to hear how it all turned out. |
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 8:24:11 GMT -8
PS Im banned on carm but I can see as a lurker. Im glad you posted it there too brother ! Banned on Carm are you? Since I've revisited the place.....surprised I haven't been too. They'd send me infraction notices before like watch your points now or be banned but haven't even got infraction notices yet. Not sure how long I'll stay on Carm or any message boards but like to do it periodically. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 11:24:08 GMT -8
Psa 34:18 Jehovah is near to the broken-hearted; and saves those who are of a contrite spirit. Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. And we know why he saved them. He saved them because they.......... whom was Psalm 34:18 written? To whom was Psalm 51:17 written? About whom was Psalm 34:18 written? About whom was Psalm 51:17 written? Who is the " they"? Before answering any of those questions, please first read the entire psalm because Psalm 34 and Psalm 51 both answer those questions so anyone answering those questions n any way other than the Psalmist's own answer is incorrect. These are not partisan inquiries. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 11:42:39 GMT -8
Notice NO INDICATION God imparted humility or pride in either. God merely observed and responded to whatever spirit THEY CHOSE to have. Neither of those two statements is correct. While it is true neither of the individual verses state any such indication, it is not true of the whole psalm from which either is taken. It's only when those two individual verses are removed from the rest of their psalm that no indication is present. Both psalms were written to David and David was a man who lived within an already-established, God-initiated covenant. That covenant existed long before Davd was born, and God brought David into it without asking David if he wanted to join, and as a consequence was heir to all the promises God had made in Hs covenant. According to the New Testament David was a man to whom the gospel had been preached (at least n veiled form). According to the New Testament, that covenant was Christological. According to Psalm 34, it is the righteous who cry out (vs. 17); they are the ones with the contrite heart. This op quotes verse 18 ignoring verse 17. Accordiing to Psalm 51, the contrite heart is of God, not self. Verse 16 tells us God does not delight in sacrifice; it is the sacrifice of God He does not despise. This op quotes verse 17 ignoring verse 16. That s how the Arminian position was argued in this op. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 11:46:58 GMT -8
Calvinism says God saves those that he just chooses too. No, Calvinism does say any such thing. There's no "just" in Calvinism. God saves those He chooses (many are called but few are chosen), not God saves those He just chooses. He chooses according to His will and Hs purpose. t's not arbitrary in any way. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 11:48:30 GMT -8
I can testify to the fact the day I was saved I was more broken at age 20 then I have ever been in my life. Who broke you? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 12:06:50 GMT -8
God can't put in one actual humility. Scripture says otherwise. ? ? ? ? The dictionary definition of humility is " to be humble"! Deuteronomy 8:2-3And you shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, in order to humble you, putting you to the test, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. 3And He humbled you and let you go hungry, and fed you with the manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, in order to make you understand that man shall not live on bread alone, but man shall live on everything that comes out of the mouth of the LORD. Daniel 5:17-19
Then Daniel answered and said before the king, "Keep your gifts for yourself or give your rewards to someone else; however, I will read the inscription to the king and make the interpretation known to him. "O king, the Most High God granted sovereignty, grandeur, glory and majesty to Nebuchadnezzar your father. "Because of the grandeur which He bestowed on him, all the peoples, nations and men of every language feared and trembled before him; whomever he wished he killed and whomever he wished he spared alive; and whomever he wished he elevated and whomever he wished he humbled. Hmmmm..... God can make a camel through the eye of a needle, but the Creator cannot make the created creature humility? That's a huge error, one that goes way beyond Calvin or Arminius. Proverbs 22:4
The reward of humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, honor and life.
Humility is a reward, not just something rewarded. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 12:08:01 GMT -8
God can't put in one actual humility. God can humble his people.... God can humble Whose people? |
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 14:57:47 GMT -8
Psa 34:18 Jehovah is near to the broken-hearted; and saves those who are of a contrite spirit. Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. And we know why he saved them. He saved them because they.......... whom was Psalm 34:18 written? To whom was Psalm 51:17 written? About whom was Psalm 34:18 written? About whom was Psalm 51:17 written? Who is the " they"? Before answering any of those questions, please first read the entire psalm because Psalm 34 and Psalm 51 both answer those questions so anyone answering those questions n any way other than the Psalmist's own answer is incorrect. These are not partisan inquiries. I don't have to read all those chapters for I already know what your play is on those texts. Your argument is they were written to for a covenant people so they already had God given humility put in them. If being a covenant people guaranteed they were going to walk in humility then you'd have to explain exactly why Israel rebelled so many, many times. |
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 15:17:58 GMT -8
Josheb's Words: The dictionary definition of humility is " to be humble"! Deuteronomy 8:2-3And you shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, in order to humble you, putting you to the test, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. 3And He humbled you and let you go hungry, and fed you with the manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, in order to make you understand that man shall not live on bread alone, but man shall live on everything that comes out of the mouth of the LORD. My Response: Sorry Josheb but you're going way off the rails by taking what a dictionary says about humility as they haven't thought through on considering if humbling one or we could call it abasing one actually produces a spirit of humility. King Saul was a perfect example. He was humbled when God began to show favor to David and the people even mocked Saul. Did that produce humility in Saul? Quite the opposite. And even with Israel in the wilderness did the people actually choose to walk in humility when God yes humbled them making them depend on him and him alone? Of course not. They fought God and resisted and complained so where is the humility in that? Humility is still a choice!
|
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 15:27:04 GMT -8
Josheb said : Hmmmm.....
God can make a camel through the eye of a needle, but the Creator cannot make the created creature humility?
I responded: No he can't. He never has and he never will. Even with Adam and Eve he didn't create them with humility engrained. They had to choose humility which would mean choose God's words and thoughts over anything which would go contrary to it. Showing humility or pride is man's ultimate choice.
Josheb: That's a huge error, one that goes way beyond Calvin or Arminius.
I Responded: What I shared reflects I believe the nature of God. Not really concerned where you think I'm pegged along side two other human beings. I'd say the same thing to them if they disagreed with me. God does not create actual humility.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockson on Sept 16, 2022 15:38:25 GMT -8
Josheb quoted: Daniel 5:17-19
Then Daniel answered and said before the king, "Keep your gifts for yourself or give your rewards to someone else; however, I will read the inscription to the king and make the interpretation known to him. "O king, the Most High God granted sovereignty, grandeur, glory and majesty to Nebuchadnezzar your father. "Because of the grandeur which He bestowed on him, all the peoples, nations and men of every language feared and trembled before him; whomever he wished he killed and whomever he wished he spared alive; and whomever he wished he elevated and whomever he wished he humbled.
I Responded : Not sure why you're quoting this?
|
|
) and she became saved after sharing the gospel with her. She had heard I had changed and it was real so she gave me a chance again. The rest as they say is history. 