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Post by Parker on Sept 17, 2022 16:41:12 GMT -8
Self. I broke myself by trying to be the master of my own destiny. I really thought I was cool too, till I got to the end of that road. What is man responsible for ? faith repentance confessing sins humility or does God zap only those He is going to save with those and the rest left to themselves ? What is man responsible for? That's an interesting question. I'm not sure if God laid any responsibilities on mankind after the fall. But whatever they were we apparently didn't live up to them As God was sorry that he made us and brought the flood upon the earth. I don't believe God zaps any of us. To me without Christ in your life as your lord and savior, your life will automatically just be a mess because we all live in a fallen world. Some of us are fortunate enough to hear the gospel and come to the realization that we need a savior. I just think it's easier for people That have been through a lot of stuff to come to that realization. Just like you stated above, you messed your life up by messing you relationship up. When you turn to Jesus he saved you and he also give you a good life and a good wife. Hey that rhymes. Some people are too stubborn to turn to Jesus, they think some how, some way they will make their way work. |
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Post by Parker on Sept 17, 2022 16:43:49 GMT -8
Self. I broke myself by trying to be the master of my own destiny. I really thought I was cool too, till I got to the end of that road. brokenness existed before the brokenness to which civ is referring. Sorry it's been a long day. I'll go back and look at the post and see if I can figure out what you're talking about. |
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Post by Parker on Sept 17, 2022 16:46:01 GMT -8
I can testify to the fact the day I was saved I was more broken at age 20 then I have ever been in my life. There was an event that happened where my sins caused the terrible things that occurred that day and I had been running from God putting Him off for sometime. I came before the Lord in my bedroom as a broken young man with not an ounce of pride left in me as it was my pride that caused all my problems in the first place. I wept, pleaded for mercy and forgiveness of my horrible sins that not only caused myself pain but also the ones I loved most whom I hurt. That evening God gave me a new heart, mind, spirit and I became a new man. I knew Christ had forgiven me, cleaned me and given me a desire to love, obey and please Him. I was not a reader by any means and from that day forward I could not get enough of Gods word, desiring to know Him and study became a daily habit of mine along with prayer, meditation and memorizing scripture. Within a year God restored the broken relationship I had with my girlfriend ( my wife now  ) and she became saved after sharing the gospel with her. She had heard I had changed and it was real so she gave me a chance again. The rest as they say is history. I don't know that pretty much sounds like what I'm talking about, "The end of the road." |
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Post by rockson on Sept 17, 2022 17:54:21 GMT -8
Josheb said---> The fact is the dictionary definition says humbleness and humility are alike and you said otherwise. If you are using a new and different definition of words then the onus is on YOU to let everyone know new and different inventions are being invented and applied.
My Response---> Well sorry but you're off the rails again. You're quoting you say from your dictionary you're referring to a state of humbleness that is similar and alike to humility. I have no problem with that, not at all and never have! It seems you're willingly choosing to miss though if an outside party humbles you by effecting your surroundings, you're claiming that's a given guarantee it'll produced the characteristic of humility in the other person. It doesn't necessarily do that at all but you're claiming it's a given. And dictionaries don't claim it does either by the way.
I understand why YOU have to make it that way for your paradigm goes down the tube if you can't assert that. God however humbled Israel many times and many times they DID NOT respond in humility or in the fear of the Lord. So let me ask you is that true or is that not true. You know that many times it didn't produce humility and that's something YOU KNOW. If you say you don't know that then I don't believe you. You seem to have an adequate enough knowledge of the Bible to know what I'm telling you is true. God humbled the Pharoh of Egypt demonstrating he wasn't the big shot he thought he was. Did it produce humility in him? NO he hardened his heart even more so in pride. So main point: God does NOT and cannot put humility in a person. That is the choice of all, which way they'll go and that demolishes even total depravity in the way that Calvinists see it and also irresistible grace.
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Post by rockson on Sept 17, 2022 19:21:24 GMT -8
Josheb--->And now, because I pointed that out I am being attacked personally, and unnecessarily. Even if I were wrong those words are disrespectful.
The fact is humility and humbleness are related and they are not disparate in meaning. The fact is scripture actually states God acts to humble a person AND scripture states we are to humble ourselves. The two are not mutually exclusive conditions. I provided the evidence straight out of scripture and rather than acknowledge the scripture and its content I get, "Sorry Josheb but you're going off the rails...." Would you tolerate that if I said that about you? If not, then don't do it to others.
My Response---> So you're claiming I attacked you personally for I said the mere words, "Sorry but you're going off the rails" Seems very, very innocent to me but it seems you want to discredit your opponent in any way you can for effect. And you ask would I tolerate someone saying that to me? Yes, yes, yes, yes, I would, and it wouldn't bother me a bit. I or others might say those words to exhort you to check up on what you believe! I'm guessing many or most on here would know that saying going off the rails is merely suggesting you're off the WORD. (that is the word of God) You can respond by saying, "OK tell me where and let's discuss it" and then we go from point to point. We can always disagree without being disagreeable, but we don't have to conclude that I'm OK and you're OK or my position is good, and your position is good. There would be no purpose in discussing anything if we're going to conclude that and in closing the fact is you yourself feel my position on things is off the rails or off the word of God. So what's the difference? Peace.
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Post by rockson on Sept 17, 2022 19:50:26 GMT -8
Josheb said---> This opening post says God CANNOT bring a man to humility. "That claim denies God His omnipotence! That's not the God of the Bible. Not only was God's ability to bring a person to humility denied, human ability was also elevated above God's inability! It's not just a bad soteriology; it's a bad theology. Not a single scripture to prove any of it, either.
My Response---> Not quite. I said "God can't put in one actual humility" Humility is how one responds to what God does or allows and it can go either way. You claim that I'm denying God's omnipotence but why is it you can't get or won't get that God's omnipotence is governed by his WISDOM and LOVE? Why is it that you always want to make it seem like MIGHT makes RIGHT and MIGHT must be utilized or you won't respect the one?
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 18, 2022 5:48:03 GMT -8
Personal sin , my girlfriend breaking it off with me brought me low and I was humbled . I think you answered the question in this post of yours. see post. "Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless." |
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Post by civic on Sept 18, 2022 6:25:57 GMT -8
Personal sin , my girlfriend breaking it off with me brought me low and I was humbled . I think you answered the question in this post of yours. see post. "Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless." It’s the difference between synergism and monergism . It’s the difference between our premises . |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 8:39:35 GMT -8
I think you answered the question in this post of yours. see post. "Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless." It’s the difference between synergism and monergism . It’s the difference between our premises. Or, it could be a failure to consider the hand of God being at work before that work was recognized. |
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Post by civic on Sept 18, 2022 8:55:58 GMT -8
It’s the difference between synergism and monergism . It’s the difference between our premises. Or, it could be a failure to consider the hand of God being at work before that work was recognized. And synergism recognizes Gods grace in everything . |
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Post by civic on Sept 18, 2022 8:56:10 GMT -8
Im at work today so my time here will be limited
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 9:00:20 GMT -8
Or, it could be a failure to consider the hand of God being at work before that work was recognized. And synergism recognizes Gods grace in everything. That's what they say, but that's not what they actually mean. If they did, then they'd be monergist. What merit is your decision to believe God if done in the flesh of the sinfully unregenerate? For the record: the point I am making, that it was God working in your life for the very purpose of your salvation and you did not knowingly have anything to do with it until after you were saved, is not being addressed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 9:00:39 GMT -8
Self. I broke myself by trying to be the master of my own destiny. I really thought I was cool too, till I got to the end of that road. What is man responsible for ? faith repentance confessing sins humility Got scripture for that? Or is it being assumed when God speaks to His people those words apply to everyone? I don't know about any "zap," but I do know God saves only those He is going to save, and He does in fact leave the rest to themselves. Well, that last part is not entirely correct, He doesn't just leave them to themselves, He gives them over to their lusts. 1 Corinthians 6:11 KJVAnd such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.I can find scores of verses directly, specifically, explicitly stating God is the cause, but I cannot find one single verse in the entire Bible that explicitly states the human will is causal in any way to salvation among the sinfully enslaved and dead unregenerate. ALL of the verses speaking of human faculty, human response, and human collaboration occur in the context of an already-existing covenant relationship that scripture says is Christological, and in the New Testament most of those examples are of those who are already regenerate, not unregenerate. Not a single one of them explicitly states the will is causal. God is causal. Sinner's unregenerate will is not. Faith is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8), so show me where God holds the faithless responsible for faith. He holds them responsible for their faithlessness..... and their destiny is already decided (without asking any of them if that's what they want). Only those acknowledging the existence of sin can see any need for confession, repentance and humility. Some scripturally-informed presuppositional thinking is warranted in this thread. Think about the constituent elements of the assumptions being asserted. |
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 18, 2022 9:02:18 GMT -8
@josheb Post "Or, it could be a failure to consider the hand of God being at work before that work was recognized."When I was out in the world running amuck it never crossed my mind that the only reason I survived was God had his hand upon me. That he had a future for me. Once my life was turned around and I had a relationship with him then I could look back and see what was really going on. He really pulled me out of a lot. So I can definitely agree with your post. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 9:52:51 GMT -8
@josheb Post "Or, it could be a failure to consider the hand of God being at work before that work was recognized."When I was out in the world running amuck it never crossed my mind that the only reason I survived was God had his hand upon me..... Me, neither. In fact, for the first 20 years of my life I would have said I came to God through my own will, too. Just as the synergists say. But it was only upon reading God's word over and over did I realize that was merely my perception and scripture says it is not that way. Salvation may seem that way, but it is not. In point of fact, God saved me in spite of myself, not because of anything within me. Hundreds of times I have told my testimony recounting the moment when I said, " Okay God, I'm going to give this Jesus thing a chance," thinking that was my still-unregenerate will negotiating with God. I was wrong to do so. It's hard to see the picture from inside the frame. |
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) and she became saved after sharing the gospel with her. She had heard I had changed and it was real so she gave me a chance again. The rest as they say is history. 
