eleos
New Member
God is Love.
Posts: 44
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Post by eleos on Sept 23, 2022 7:45:33 GMT -8
There is an old rhyme that serves as something of an antinomian theme song. It says, “Freed from the law, O blessed condition; I can sin all I want and still have remission.” Antinomianism literally means “anti-lawism.” It denies or downplays the significance of God’s law in the life of the believer. It is the opposite of its twin heresy, legalism. Some believe that they no longer are obligated to keep the moral law of God because Jesus has freed them from it. They insist that grace not only frees us from the curse of God’s law but delivers us from any obligation to obey God’s law. Grace then becomes a license for disobedience. The really astounding thing is that people hold this view despite Paul’s vigorous teaching against it. Paul, more than any other New Testament writer, emphasized the differences between law and grace. He gloried in the New Covenant. Nevertheless, he was most explicit in his condemnation of antinomianism. Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.” That's all the convincing I need right there. But wait ...there's more! Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law. That is, His sacrificial work on the cross purchased our freedom from the law. Jesus fulfilled the original intention and purpose of the Mosaic Law on our behalf. Matthew 5:17–22 Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 “You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire Romans 8:34 who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us? What we could not do in perfectly obeying God’s will laid out in the law, Christ did for us. In that way, He fulfilled the law and accomplished what God intended. This doesn’t mean we completely ignore everything in the Mosaic Law. There are many commands in the law that all people from all time should always obey. For example, Exodus 20:13 says, “You shall not murder.” Even though Christ fulfilled the law, God’s people should still observe the command not to take another human’s life. Though we are redeemed from the curse of the law and set free from its rules and regulations, it’s still important to observe the moral and ethical commands found within the law. Of the Ten Commandments, nine are repeated in the New Testament as commands for us today. When Paul said "We establish the law" he is talking about what he called the righteousness of the law which are the laws that govern our behavior all of which revolve around our love for God, our brother and our neighbor. And we can fulfill that challenge by seeking the Holy Spirit to transform our hearts and minds and to lead us through our lives. The Holy Spirit must transform our inner man if we are to be victorious outwardly. Romans 8 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The law (the 10 stand) all of them ... those in Christ are not condemned by it. God gave us a stark picture of this with the tablets of stone (He wrote himself) being placed in the ark (under the mercy seat) ... ALL of them are there. The laws Moses wrote regarding ceremonies and ordinances were placed outside of the ark. They were done away with (nailed to the cross) because were no longer needed when "the seed come" and that seed was Christ. Galatians 3 15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ. Of course there is law .... else how does God judge rightly? After the crucifixion of Christ the earthly sanctuary system was no longer needed ... because Jesus became our High Priest and He ministers from the sanctuary in heaven (the real one). We have direct access to Him and through Him. The law leads us to Christ and after we receive Him the Holy Spirit leads us back to the law and empowers us helping us to overcome sin (transgression of the law). This continues throughout our lifetime here on earth ... we are continuously being cleansed (becoming more Christ-like). Sanctification begins with justification. But, while justification is God's act of forgiving your sins and counting you righteous through faith in Jesus Christ, sanctification is the continual work of the Holy Spirit in the believer in order for you to conform to the image of Christ, who is God's son. |
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Post by Redeemed on Sept 25, 2022 7:36:51 GMT -8
Contemporary no-lordship doctrine is nothing but latter-day antinomianism. Antinomianism makes obedience elective. While most antinomians strongly counsel Christians to obey (and even urge them to obey), they do not believe obedience is a necessary consequence of true faith.
It is important to understand the term antinomianism in its theological sense. I do not use the word to be derogatory. To say someone is antinomian is not necessarily to say that person spurns holiness or condones ungodliness. Most antinomians vigorously appeal for Christians to walk in a manner worthy of their calling; but at the same time they minimize the relationship between obedience and faith. Antinomians typically believe Christians should yield to the lordship of Christ; they just do not believe surrender is a binding requirement in the gospel call to faith. Antinomians do not necessarily despise the law of God; they simply believe it is irrelevant to saving faith. They suggest that obedience to the righteous principles of the law might not become a pattern in the Christian’s life.
Romans. 8:4 So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the Law [the limit at which it ceases to be, for the Law leads up to Him Who is the fulfillment of its types, and in Him the purpose which it was designed to accomplish is fulfilled. That is, the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Him] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him
In short, antinomianism is the belief that allows for justification without sanctification.
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Post by praiseyeshua on Sept 26, 2022 6:55:27 GMT -8
This doesn’t mean we completely ignore everything in the Mosaic Law. There are many commands in the law that all people from all time should always obey. For example, Exodus 20:13 says, “You shall not murder.” Even though Christ fulfilled the law, God’s people should still observe the command not to take another human’s life. Though we are redeemed from the curse of the law and set free from its rules and regulations, it’s still important to observe the moral and ethical commands found within the law. Of the Ten Commandments, nine are repeated in the New Testament as commands for us today. I see that you reached for the "low hanging fruit"..... A few things that must be considered. 1. The "law" was added. Meaning, it was not the "modus operandi" for countless saints BEFORE the disobedience of Israel in rejecting Moses. So if your complaint is based upon the NEED to keep the law, then I reject such a claim as many saints lived and pleased God before there were "tablets of stone" 2. The "law" is incomplete. Jesus several times used the expression "you have heard"..... but I SAY..... Which sets up a contrast between what was heard and what SHOULD have been heard. Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, In review, The law wasn't needed for saints before the "Golden Calf" idolatry of Israel and the law is incomplete in leading the saint into really knowing God. I tell what is BETTER... Jesus is. The Spirit leads us to KNOW Jesus. That is why Paul said very clearly.... 2Ti 2:19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” |
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 26, 2022 7:24:54 GMT -8
This doesn’t mean we completely ignore everything in the Mosaic Law. There are many commands in the law that all people from all time should always obey. For example, Exodus 20:13 says, “You shall not murder.” Even though Christ fulfilled the law, God’s people should still observe the command not to take another human’s life. Though we are redeemed from the curse of the law and set free from its rules and regulations, it’s still important to observe the moral and ethical commands found within the law. Of the Ten Commandments, nine are repeated in the New Testament as commands for us today. I see that you reached for the "low hanging fruit"..... A few things that must be considered. 1. The "law" was added. Meaning, it was not the "modus operandi" for countless saints BEFORE the disobedience of Israel in rejecting Moses. So if your complaint is based upon the NEED to keep the law, then I reject such a claim as many saints lived and pleased God before there were "tablets of stone" 2. The "law" is incomplete. Jesus several times used the expression "you have heard"..... but I SAY..... Which sets up a contrast between what was heard and what SHOULD have been heard. Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, In review, The law wasn't needed for saints before the "Golden Calf" idolatry of Israel and the law is incomplete in leading the saint into really knowing God. I tell what is BETTER... Jesus is. The Spirit leads us to KNOW Jesus. That is why Paul said very clearly.... 2Ti 2:19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” Romans 3:21 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. The redeeming work of Christ providing righteousness apart from the Law.—Then setting forth the great redemption of Jesus Christ, the apostle shows that it provides what the Law had failed to provide, a righteousness which can satisfy the requirements of the Law; a righteousness that is indeed “apart from the law,” apart from all men’s attempts to keep the Law, but is nevertheless in deepest harmony with the principles of the Law, and has been witnessed “by the law and the prophets” |
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Post by Redeemed on Sept 26, 2022 10:01:11 GMT -8
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!… Galatians 2:21
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’ The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’ Galatians 3:10–12
A careful reading of the text indicates that Paul is not condemning the law, but the attempt to use the law as a means of being saved. When he says, “the law is not based on faith,” he is saying, “the law (as a means of salvation) is not based on faith.” He never condemns the law in itself. In fact, our first principle was that grace does not abolish the law, it upholds it.
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Post by praiseyeshua on Sept 26, 2022 10:01:34 GMT -8
I see that you reached for the "low hanging fruit"..... A few things that must be considered. 1. The "law" was added. Meaning, it was not the "modus operandi" for countless saints BEFORE the disobedience of Israel in rejecting Moses. So if your complaint is based upon the NEED to keep the law, then I reject such a claim as many saints lived and pleased God before there were "tablets of stone" 2. The "law" is incomplete. Jesus several times used the expression "you have heard"..... but I SAY..... Which sets up a contrast between what was heard and what SHOULD have been heard. Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, In review, The law wasn't needed for saints before the "Golden Calf" idolatry of Israel and the law is incomplete in leading the saint into really knowing God. I tell what is BETTER... Jesus is. The Spirit leads us to KNOW Jesus. That is why Paul said very clearly.... 2Ti 2:19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” Romans 3:21 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. The redeeming work of Christ providing righteousness apart from the Law.—Then setting forth the great redemption of Jesus Christ, the apostle shows that it provides what the Law had failed to provide, a righteousness which can satisfy the requirements of the Law; a righteousness that is indeed “apart from the law,” apart from all men’s attempts to keep the Law, but is nevertheless in deepest harmony with the principles of the Law, and has been witnessed “by the law and the prophets” The requirements of the law was death. Jesus died to fulfill the law. |
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Post by praiseyeshua on Sept 26, 2022 10:03:18 GMT -8
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!… Galatians 2:21 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’ The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’ Galatians 3:10–12 A careful reading of the text indicates that Paul is not condemning the law, but the attempt to use the law as a means of being saved. When he says, “the law is not based on faith,” he is saying, “the law (as a means of salvation) is not based on faith.” He never condemns the law in itself. In fact, our first principle was that grace does not abolish the law, it upholds it. Not at all. I made 2 points. Can you deal with them? The only thing Grace and Law have in common is the death of Jesus Christ. |
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Post by Redeemed on Sept 26, 2022 10:23:11 GMT -8
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!… Galatians 2:21 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’ The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’ Galatians 3:10–12 A careful reading of the text indicates that Paul is not condemning the law, but the attempt to use the law as a means of being saved. When he says, “the law is not based on faith,” he is saying, “the law (as a means of salvation) is not based on faith.” He never condemns the law in itself. In fact, our first principle was that grace does not abolish the law, it upholds it. Not at all. I made 2 points. Can you deal with them? The only thing Grace and Law have in common is the death of Jesus Christ. is a member, Given the history you two have I'm sure he could deal with them. I'd love to see the two of you debate scripture here. |
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Sept 26, 2022 13:29:48 GMT -8
there are two laws.
one is of paradise before she fell
and belongs to God and always has: His law of the spirit of Life
(which He desires for us and asks us to return).
the other law is the law of sin and death, of the current world (kosmou)
(even cosmologically, for the fall caused corruption)
and the nature of this world is that all does die.
we are always under the rule of a deity!
the concept of an ‘own will’ is a misnomer…
we are ruled by God
or
we are ruled by
the false satanic realm calling itself deity
(in fact not deity but of demons)
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slyzr
Full Member
Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Sept 29, 2022 15:08:29 GMT -8
Aren't we in the flesh?
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slyzr
Full Member
Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Sept 29, 2022 15:12:25 GMT -8
there are two laws. one is of paradise before she fell and belongs to God and always has: His law of the spirit of Life (which He desires for us and asks us to return). the other law is the law of sin and death, of the current world (kosmou) (even cosmologically, for the fall caused corruption) and the nature of this world is that all does die. we are always under the rule of a deity! the concept of an ‘own will’ is a misnomer… we are ruled by God or we are ruled by the false satanic realm calling itself deity (in fact not deity but of demons) So basically we are birthed to not be? You sure that is God? The dieties have free will to say we cannot be? That is a bit of a head scratcher. Augistine palyed that card ....... Man not. |
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Post by Theophilus on Sept 29, 2022 15:47:34 GMT -8
there are two laws. one is of paradise before she fell and belongs to God and always has: His law of the spirit of Life (which He desires for us and asks us to return). the other law is the law of sin and death, of the current world (kosmou) (even cosmologically, for the fall caused corruption) and the nature of this world is that all does die. we are always under the rule of a deity! the concept of an ‘own will’ is a misnomer… we are ruled by God or we are ruled by the false satanic realm calling itself deity (in fact not deity but of demons) So basically we are birthed to not be? You sure that is God? The dieties have free will to say we cannot be? That is a bit of a head scratcher. Augistine palyed that card ....... Man not. Be Holy As I Am Holy…By Trusting In Jesus Alone It’s absolutely critical that we get started on the right foot when it comes to obeying the command to be holy as I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16 If we get this first part wrong, we’ll get everything else wrong as well. The first step in being holy as the Lord is holy is to set our hope on Jesus Christ alone and the righteousness he provides for us. In 1 Peter 1:13, Peter says, “…set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.“ |
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slyzr
Full Member
Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Sept 29, 2022 16:20:17 GMT -8
So basically we are birthed to not be? You sure that is God? The dieties have free will to say we cannot be? That is a bit of a head scratcher. Augistine palyed that card ....... Man not. Be Holy As I Am Holy…By Trusting In Jesus Alone It’s absolutely critical that we get started on the right foot when it comes to obeying the command to be holy as I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16 If we get this first part wrong, we’ll get everything else wrong as well. The first step in being holy as the Lord is holy is to set our hope on Jesus Christ alone and the righteousness he provides for us. In 1 Peter 1:13, Peter says, “…set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.“ Not really into the Jesus died for us to not be thingy. No greator love has one then dying for everyone else not to be? some of you guys are into the perputual, never to be ........ But be re-converted. are you one of those guy's? |
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Post by Theophilus on Sept 30, 2022 7:19:04 GMT -8
The most wonderful function of the law, however, is that it shows us what is pleasing to God. The godly man is the one who mediates on the law day and night (Ps. 1:2), and he does so because he finds his delight therein. By delighting in the precepts of God, he becomes like a tree planted by rivers of living water, bringing forth its fruit in its season (Ps. 1:3). Our Lord said, “If you love Me keep My commandments” (John 14:15), but we cannot show that love for Him unless we know what the commandments are. A knowledge of the law of God gives to us the pattern of loving obedience. If we love the Lord, we must also love His law. To love God and despise His law is a contradiction that must never be the profile of the Christian. The psalmist says that God hates the double-minded man, and the doubleminded man says that he loves God while at the same time he eschews the law of the Lord (Ps. 119:113). The psalmist says that the precepts, judgments, and testimonies of God are wonderful because they keep the soul and they preserve us from sins dragging us back into slavery and dominion (Ps. 119:129). The law in this regard is redemptive—not that we find our redemption by keeping the law, but that the Redeemer is shown to us through the law. The Goodness of the Law |
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Post by Theophilus on Sept 30, 2022 7:27:23 GMT -8
slyzr Be Holy As I Am Holy…By Trusting In Jesus Alone It’s absolutely critical that we get started on the right foot when it comes to obeying the command to be holy as I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16 If we get this first part wrong, we’ll get everything else wrong as well. The first step in being holy as the Lord is holy is to set our hope on Jesus Christ alone and the righteousness he provides for us. In 1 Peter 1:13, Peter says, “…set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.“ Not really into the Jesus died for us to not be thingy. No greator love has one then dying for everyone else not to be? some of you guys are into the perputual, never to be ........ But be re-converted. are you one of those guy's? Do you mean one of those sweet warm wonderful guys who loves the Lord? Yeah that's me! How could you tell? Could it be you have the gift of discernment? |
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