genez
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Post by genez on Sept 25, 2022 14:09:15 GMT -8
Are you saying that we can not know and determine when it speaks of a "messenger" or an actual angel?? FYI Greek: Angelos always appears in the masculine gender. Yes one way is when the messenger / angel accepts worship . Created angels do not but the messenger / angel of the Lord ( YHWH) was worshiped and was the Eternal Son appearing to man as a Christophany/ Theophany . An appearance of God in the O.T. One difference. When the Angel of Jehovah was appearing (is no longer doing so) the Angel was God. Therefore, able to receive worship. We see no more manifestations of the Angel of Jehovah since the Incarnation. For now is the time when the Son is to be manifested as God before creation. |
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Post by civic on Sept 25, 2022 14:45:13 GMT -8
Yes one way is when the messenger / angel accepts worship . Created angels do not but the messenger / angel of the Lord ( YHWH) was worshiped and was the Eternal Son appearing to man as a Christophany/ Theophany . An appearance of God in the O.T. One difference. When the Angel of Jehovah was appearing (is no longer doing so) the Angel was God. Therefore, able to receive worship. We see no more manifestations of the Angel of Jehovah since the Incarnation. For now is the time when the Son is to be manifested as God before creation. Agreed ! |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Oct 5, 2022 9:31:10 GMT -8
Jesus is fully man and fully God in union. Jesus is NOT fully angel and fully God in union! That is? Unless you see no difference between the essence of man (soul) and the essence of angels (spirit). I wonder why some have a hard time with this. Its as if conventional tradition has become the word of God to them. This is one we do not agree on; IMO, man is not a soul. But a spirit man, who may have a soul. As Jesus said, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world a forfeight his soul. Regarding Jesus being a "messenger" of YHWY, sure seemed like it. Jesus said He came to speak what was given to Him by His Father. |
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genez
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Post by genez on Oct 5, 2022 9:56:19 GMT -8
Jesus is fully man and fully God in union. Jesus is NOT fully angel and fully God in union! That is? Unless you see no difference between the essence of man (soul) and the essence of angels (spirit). I wonder why some have a hard time with this. Its as if conventional tradition has become the word of God to them. This is one we do not agree on; IMO, man is not a soul. But a spirit man, who may have a soul. As Jesus said, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world a forfeight his soul. Regarding Jesus being a "messenger" of YHWY, sure seemed like it. Jesus said He came to speak what was given to Him by His Father. Yes... Man as we know him is more than just a soul. But, the essence of a man is his soul. A believers soul without a body is with the Lord.
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Revelation 6:9
"Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4
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slyzr
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Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Oct 5, 2022 11:56:59 GMT -8
This is one we do not agree on; IMO, man is not a soul. But a spirit man, who may have a soul. As Jesus said, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world a forfeight his soul. Regarding Jesus being a "messenger" of YHWY, sure seemed like it. Jesus said He came to speak what was given to Him by His Father. Yes... Man as we know him is more than just a soul. But, the essence of a man is his soul. A believers soul without a body is with the Lord.
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Revelation 6:9
"Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4
OK ........ I thought the spirit returned to him who made it. (lower caps on purpose) "All men shall be covered with my soul". “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 Is not the same as man is is a soul. Paul and his Adamic typology; the first adam became a living soul, the last adam became a life giving spirit. |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Oct 5, 2022 12:55:34 GMT -8
Yes... Man as we know him is more than just a soul. But, the essence of a man is his soul. A believers soul without a body is with the Lord.
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Revelation 6:9
"Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4
OK ........ I thought the spirit returned to him who made it. (lower caps on purpose) "All men shall be covered with my soul". “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 Is not the same as man is is a soul. Paul and his Adamic typology; the first adam became a living soul, the last adam became a life giving spirit. Yes.... He has given all the gift of the Holy Spirit. He (Jesus) is the 'life giving spirit." It does not say that we have become a life giving spirit.
Yet, we are souls having been given the Holy Spirit. We remain being our soul. Its with our soul we do our thinking.
During the Tribulation certain martyred believers will be absent from their bodies and present with the Lord in heaven! What are they seen as being?
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who
had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."
Revelation 6:9
A regenerate soul has been given a 'human spirit.' An unregenerate soul is only body and soul - having no human spirit.
A soul having a human spirit and is functioning with it is a 'living soul.'
grace and peace....
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slyzr
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Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Oct 5, 2022 14:05:06 GMT -8
OK ........ I thought the spirit returned to him who made it. (lower caps on purpose) "All men shall be covered with my soul". “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 Is not the same as man is is a soul. Paul and his Adamic typology; the first adam became a living soul, the last adam became a life giving spirit. Yes.... He has given all the gift of the Holy Spirit. He (Jesus) is the 'life giving spirit." It does not say that we have become a life giving spirit.
Yet, we are souls having been given the Holy Spirit. We remain being our soul. Its with our soul we do our thinking.
During the Tribulation certain martyred believers will be absent from their bodies and present with the Lord in heaven! What are they seen as being?
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who
had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."
Revelation 6:9
A regenerate soul has been given a 'human spirit.' An unregenerate soul is only body and soul - having no human spirit.
A soul having a human spirit and is functioning with it is a 'living soul.'
grace and peace....
When does the being kick in? When we are dead enough to be? Perpetual soul propagation for killing is spirit? How does one live? |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Oct 5, 2022 18:23:55 GMT -8
Yes.... He has given all the gift of the Holy Spirit. He (Jesus) is the 'life giving spirit." It does not say that we have become a life giving spirit.
Yet, we are souls having been given the Holy Spirit. We remain being our soul. Its with our soul we do our thinking.
During the Tribulation certain martyred believers will be absent from their bodies and present with the Lord in heaven! What are they seen as being?
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who
had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."
Revelation 6:9
A regenerate soul has been given a 'human spirit.' An unregenerate soul is only body and soul - having no human spirit.
A soul having a human spirit and is functioning with it is a 'living soul.'
grace and peace....
When does the being kick in? When we are dead enough to be? Perpetual soul propagation for killing is spirit? How does one live? You have your own frame of reference and vocabulary. Its not mine. Nor, do I see it as sound Biblically in context.
I am not going to try to wade through your confusion. I can't. Its all yours.
Most Christians who study the Bible realize that angels and man are not the same in essence. For some reason you can not make the differentiation. And, choose to use isolated passages to make a contrary point, while ignoring many others...
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slyzr
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Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Oct 6, 2022 9:45:19 GMT -8
When does the being kick in? When we are dead enough to be? Perpetual soul propagation for killing is spirit? How does one live? You have your own frame of reference and vocabulary. Its not mine. Nor, do I see it as sound Biblically in context.
I am not going to try to wade through your confusion. I can't. Its all yours.
Most Christians who study the Bible realize that angels and man are not the same in essence. For some reason you can not make the differentiation. And, choose to use isolated passages to make a contrary point, while ignoring many others...
First off I was not disagreeing with you. I was agreeing!!! At least for the most part. Let me try again; does man being ever kick in? Continual NOT being, for a continual soulish priority, over man makes little sense to me. I agree it is a thing though. (for a possible improvement) Are we talking about resurecction to get out of it? |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Oct 6, 2022 9:51:59 GMT -8
OK ........ I thought the spirit returned to him who made it. (lower caps on purpose) "All men shall be covered with my soul". “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 Is not the same as man is is a soul. Paul and his Adamic typology; the first adam became a living soul, the last adam became a life giving spirit. Yes.... He has given all the gift of the Holy Spirit. He (Jesus) is the 'life giving spirit." It does not say that we have become a life giving spirit.
Yet, we are souls having been given the Holy Spirit. We remain being our soul. Its with our soul we do our thinking.
During the Tribulation certain martyred believers will be absent from their bodies and present with the Lord in heaven! What are they seen as being?
"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who
had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."
Revelation 6:9
A regenerate soul has been given a 'human spirit.' An unregenerate soul is only body and soul - having no human spirit.
A soul having a human spirit and is functioning with it is a 'living soul.'
grace and peace....
Kind of funny ....... We both seem to be talking past each other. But you do agree we already are a human spirit? Do you not? Do you think Jesus was not a human being before the HS? |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Oct 6, 2022 14:03:22 GMT -8
Let me try again; does man being ever kick in? (what does that mean to you?)Continual NOT being, for a continual soulish priority, over man makes little sense to me. (what does that mean to you?) |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Oct 6, 2022 14:07:35 GMT -8
Let me try again; does man being ever kick in? (what does that mean to you?)Continual NOT being, for a continual soulish priority, over man makes little sense to me. (what does that mean to you?)The way you are filing Jesus died for us never to be. |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Oct 6, 2022 14:15:22 GMT -8
Kind of funny ....... We both seem to be talking past each other. But you do agree we already are a human spirit? Do you not? Do you think Jesus was not a human being before the HS? You are not speaking in Biblical terms as its found in Scripture. You seem to be assuming a meaning that you also assume should be self evident. Man can be called a spirit in a figurative sense... Just like high schools have school spirit. Here is one verse that rarely gets translated accurately from the Greek The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God.
For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because
they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 What gets translated 'natural man' in the Greek? Is "psuchikos." It means, 'soulish' man. Having only soul and body. No human spirit. Spiritual things can not register with him because he has yet to enter regeneration as to receive a 'human spirit.' A human spirit that will be begotten by the Holy Spirit. "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." John 3:6 Its with our human spirit that we are made able to comprehend spiritual matters as expressed by the Spirit. That is why the psuchikos man finds spiritual matters foolishness and moronic. He can not comprehend them while only having a soul. |
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slyzr
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Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Oct 6, 2022 16:03:30 GMT -8
Kind of funny ....... We both seem to be talking past each other. But you do agree we already are a human spirit? Do you not? Do you think Jesus was not a human being before the HS? You are not speaking in Biblical terms as its found in Scripture. You seem to be assuming a meaning that you also assume should be self evident. Man can be called a spirit in a figurative sense... Just like high schools have school spirit. Here is one verse that rarely gets translated accurately from the Greek The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God.
For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because
they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 What gets translated 'natural man' in the Greek? Is "psuchikos." It means, 'soulish' man. Having only soul and body. No human spirit. Spiritual things can not register with him because he has yet to enter regeneration as to receive a 'human spirit.' A human spirit that will be begotten by the Holy Spirit. "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." John 3:6 Its with our human spirit that we are made able to comprehend spiritual matters as expressed by the Spirit. That is why the psuchikos man finds spiritual matters foolishness and moronic. He can not comprehend them while only having a soul. Not being is not tenable. |
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genez
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Post by genez on Oct 6, 2022 17:17:47 GMT -8
slyzr?
You sound like someone talking in his sleep..... Makes no sense to the hearer as to why it was said, but its understood the one sleeping is having a thought he relates to when its said.
Why did you say? "Not being is not tenable?"
How does it relate to anything that was being said?
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