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Post by Parker on Oct 2, 2022 8:07:57 GMT -8
Among the most universal beliefs across all humanity is the concept of “good versus evil.” Every culture in every era has held to some version of this struggle. The definitions of the terms good and evil vary wildly, as do opinions on how they interact. Still, belief in some difference between that which is “good” and that which is “evil” pervades all of mankind. When all options and ideas are compared, only the Bible provides a perspective on good and evil that is fully coherent and fully livable (Psalm 25:6–15). According to the Bible, “good versus evil” is not a matter of opinion. Nor is it an evenly matched struggle between two beings or forces. Scripture does not indicate that the boundaries of good and evil change. Nor does it claim the conflict between them will last forever. Of special importance is that the Bible does not suggest some people are good, while other people are evil. Rather, the Bible teaches that good and evil are defined in reference to a perfect and unchanging God. Every person must grapple individually with the presence and temptations of evil. Scripture notes that all evil, without exception, will ultimately be punished and defeated. And it tells us there is an ultimate standard of goodness to which we should aspire—a standard grounded in a person, rather than a theory. Good and Evil Are Objectively Distinct According to the Bible, there is a real difference between good and evil. Some worldviews claim all moral distinctions are based purely on preference. Atheism, for instance, allows no objective basis for defining anything as “good” or “evil.” In a godless universe, there are only things a person prefers and things a person does not prefer. This is a key reason why philosophies embracing atheism always tend toward violence and tyranny: there is no sense of higher authority and no reason to moderate the whims of those in power. The idea that defining good and evil depends on preferences or situations is commonly called moral relativism. Scripture rejects this idea as false. The Bible defines some things as “good” and other things as “evil” (Isaiah 5:20; Romans 12:9). This dichotomy is reflected in the consistent use of themes such as light versus darkness (Isaiah 9:2; Matthew 4:16; John 1:5; Ephesians 5:8). The ultimate fate of all people depends on whether they are aligned with a good God or opposed to Him (1 Corinthians 6:9–11; Revelation 21:8). Discerning between good and evil is possible only in reference to a single, unchanging standard: the perfect nature of God. God is not subject to morality, since He is the source and benchmark for it. Nor is morality subject to change, since God’s perfect nature is eternal and unchanging. Counters such as Euthyphro’s dilemma fail, since they do not distinguish between an eternal, unchanging God and the fickle deities of ancient Greek religion. Good and Evil Are Not Balanced A frequent component of fiction and fantasy is the idea that good and evil are equally balanced, evenly matched forces. According to this view, neither is ultimately in control. Either may eventually win. This is the concept of dualism, which suggests a perpetual balance between the forces of good and evil. In some cases, dualism implies that opposing beings, such as God and Satan, are deadlocked in a struggle for control and power. Some worldviews teach that all good and evil will eventually be balanced. This is related to Eastern ideas such as karma, which implies that good and evil are inherently imbalanced but will one day be evened out. Scripture rejects dualism as false. The Bible indicates that God is absolutely supreme and in no danger whatsoever of being defeated (Job 42:2; Psalm 89:8; Galatians 6:7). What Satan does, he is “allowed” to do, but he cannot act to overpower God (Job 1:12; Revelation 9:1; 20:7). Biblically, evil is destined only for defeat and destruction. Not one single act of evil will escape judgment; every sin will either be paid for by Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21) or by those who reject Christ (John 3:36) as they experience an eternity in hell (Revelation 20:11–15). Good and Evil Are Not External Evidence that humanity holds to a basic concept of good versus evil is obvious (Romans 1:18–20). This explains why moral reasoning—separating “what is” from “what ought to be”—is a universal facet of humanity. Of course, that does not mean all people hold the same views on good and evil. We are not examining morality from the outside, as neutral observers; all moral discussions by definition involve the person(s) who discuss them, as well. A unique aspect of the Bible’s teaching on good and evil is that all people, without exception, are subject to sin and evil (Romans 3:10; 3:23). The biblical concept of a sin nature means that the line between good and evil cannot be drawn between people. Rather, it is drawn within every person. This fact of human nature is critical to understand (Matthew 15:19–20). As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn famously said, “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” In simpler language, C.S. Lewis noted, “To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you” (see Matthew 6:14–15). One truth found in the gospel is that all people, without exception, are sinners in need of a Savior. Biblical Christianity does not see good versus evil as a battle to be fought on earth (John 18:36), an issue to resolve by revenge or retribution (Romans 12:20–21), or a philosophical position to be considered. The Bible says every person is created for a good purpose (Genesis 1:27; Galatians 3:28) but suffers from an evil heart (Romans 7:15–25), which can only be remedied by faith in Jesus Christ (John 14:6). Redemption is available to anyone (Matthew 7:7–8; Revelation 22:15), regardless of his past or the depth of his sin (1 Corinthians 6:9–11). Good versus Evil Requires “Right Judgment” Another key aspect of the Bible’s teaching on “good versus evil” is that no person is infallible, even on spiritual matters. Those who are guided by the Holy Spirit are better equipped to judge spiritual matters (1 Corinthians 2:14), and they ought to do so. Scripture is clear that all people are subject to sin, and it is just as clear that all people are subject to correction (Hebrews 12:5–11), learning (2 Timothy 2:15), and limitations (1 Samuel 16:7). In Matthew 7 Jesus gives an extensive explanation of how to properly discern between good and evil: to “judge” in the correct way; that is, to use “right judgment” (John 7:24). The Bible commends examination (Acts 17:11), commands putting things to the test (1 John 4:1), and promotes accountability (1 Peter 3:15) and a commitment to truth (Galatians 1:8–9). Scripture does not imply that “good versus evil” is a simplistic, binary concept. Since only God is ultimately perfect, the Bible allows for a “good versus better” spectrum. God called His initial creation “good” (Genesis 1:24), then after more creating called it “very good” (Genesis 1:28). Some of the good things God has given us have more than one use, and not all uses are automatically good or evil (1 Timothy 4:4). The biblical understanding of good versus evil does not imply that all things are either perfectly holy or wholly satanic. Rather, there can be good and bad aspects of many of the freedoms God gives us (1 Corinthians 6:12). Likewise, while all sin leads to separation from God, Scripture does speak of some sins as being more heinous than others. The Bible acknowledges that not every moment in human experience will come with a clear, black-and-white moral answer. Scripture focuses only on the most important points we need to know, not every imaginable scenario (John 21:25). This means even the most sincere, Bible-believing, born-again Christians might disagree on an ethical question (1 Corinthians 10:23–33). The Bible’s answer—when the issue is not covered overtly in God’s Word (1 Corinthians 5:6)—is for tolerance and patience (Titus 3:9). We’re given a conscience for a reason (Romans 14:23). Truth is objective; for any given opinion or interpretation, someone is right, and someone is wrong. But human beings lack the moral perfection of God; this is reflected in the Bible’s teaching on good versus evil and our role in applying good judgment. Scripture encourages believers not to apply terms like good, evil, sin, and so forth to issues where there is room for doubt (Romans 14:1–12). Contrary to what some think, the Bible admits that human beings might not always be correct in our moral judgments. We are not to avoid all judgment (John 7:24), but the Bible teaches us to carefully consider when and how we judge (Ephesians 5:10). Good versus Evil Demands a Response The Bible’s teaching on good versus evil leads to a challenging conclusion: that every person is obligated to make a fundamental choice between the two. That choice is entirely determined by our response to God, who is both the definition of good and our Creator. Moment by moment, that means either following His will or rebelling and choosing to sin (1 Corinthians 10:13). Eternally, this means we either choose to accept Him and His salvation (John 3:16; 14:6) or align ourselves against Him (John 3:36). While we may be imperfect and fallible, we cannot be neutral in our approach to good versus evil. Our hearts are either seeking the goodness of God (Matthew 7:7–8; Romans 2:4) or the selfishness of evil (1 Peter 3:10–12). From Got? |
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Post by Exeter on Oct 11, 2022 12:34:40 GMT -8
A good topic to discuss.
Conflict itself is worth examining.
When opposing wills intersect the power and resistance of each is tested.
1Cor1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1Cor1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Act 7:51 You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.
1Pe 5:8-10 Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (9) Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. (10) And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore you, secure you, strengthen you, and establish you.
Blessings from Exeter
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Post by Obadiah on Oct 11, 2022 14:39:18 GMT -8
A good topic to discuss. Conflict itself is worth examining. When opposing wills intersect the power and resistance of each is tested. 1Cor1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1Cor1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.Act 7:51 You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.1Pe 5:8-10 Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (9) Resist him, standing firm in your faith and in the knowledge that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. (10) And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore you, secure you, strengthen you, and establish you.
Blessings from Exeter In today’s culture, it’s not hard to find angry people. But it's nothing new,the appearance of conflict among the followers of Jesus stirred James to write about it in James 4:1–2 What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not your passions that are at war in your members? 2 You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Conflict Can easily turn to condemnation and judgment. If you take a look at early church history there were a lot of people executed because of conflict and jealousy. So I think the scriptures you quoted are what we should strive for. |
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Post by Obadiah on Oct 21, 2022 4:30:30 GMT -8
The contrasts of good versus evil and life versus death were never more pronounced than in Scripture’s portrayal of the first defection from God’s will. I'm talking about the fall found Gen. 3. We tend to think of that episode primarily in human terms. That’s understandable, since the fall affected the entirety of the human race. But behind the decisions of Adam and Eve to violate God’s command about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, there was another created being, supernatural in nature, who had decided his own will was better than God's.
I think he battle we face every moment of every day is not ultimately a question of good versus evil but rather a question of whom we will trust. When we are trusting in our own ability to make God happy and earn His acceptance, we are actually living in opposition to the Spirit of God. The Spirit says, “Hey, if you want to do it on your own, go ahead.” He is a perfect gentleman who will not force His influence upon us.
The result of our self-trust is an inability to do what we most deeply want to do. But when we choose to rest in Christ’s ability—to trust in His love toward us and His power in us then the Holy Spirit is freed to exert His influence in our lives. This is the abundant life Jesus gives us.
Jesus declares His intention to recover and restore to man what was the Father’s intent and to break and block the Devil’s intent to hinder our receiving it. From the very beginning of time, Scripture shows us that God wanted us to be happy and prosperous.
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Post by civic on Oct 21, 2022 4:58:17 GMT -8
Yes the enemy is very crafty and causes a person to doubt what God has said/declared. When we lack faith in His promises or we doubt the Goodness of God we are falling into the same trap set by the serpent in the garden. Its one of the main reasons my studies over the past several years have all been focused upon the nature and character of God- Theology, the study of God which in actuality has nothing to do with man which is secondary to the topic/study. It was a real eye opener for me personally and through that journey/study has led me out of certain beliefs/doctrines I once held to be true. So as a person who was once reformed and in that box I'm no longer reformed but I am always being reformed and open to Gods leading ,direction, correction of my beliefs. God has stripped much of my pride away and it has been humbling to admit I was wrong. And I'm sure that I'm still wrong on some things I presently believe to be true. So having an open mind with Gods word has been a blessing. It has caused me to dig deeper into understanding the very God we worship and serve who gave His life for us that we might live in and through Him. My goal is to have my mind transformed and renewed daily as per Romans 12:1-2- metamorphosed and to have the mind of Christ. Its all about Him form cover to cover and we can know what God is like by reading the gospels and seeing God in action in the flesh as a man living among us. And all the epistle's written about what it means to be Christ-like in our daily walk.
Personally I'm more excited about Christ now then I have ever been over the past 40 plus years as a believer. I'm so happy to have my first love back in a passionate way and being renewed on a daily basis. His word has become alive again, active and sharper than a 2 edged sword piercing my heart and my thoughts. It has become a mirror again where I can see my reflection and areas that need correction. I love where the Good Lord has been leading me in this journey and grateful for His mercy, patience, love and forgiveness along the way.
hope this helps !!!
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Post by Obadiah on Oct 22, 2022 5:01:13 GMT -8
Yes the enemy is very crafty and causes a person to doubt what God has dais/declared. When we lack faith in His promises or we doubt the Goodness of God we are falling into the same trap set by the serpent in the garden. Its one of the main reasons my studies over the past several years have all been focused upon the nature and character of God- Theology, the study of God which in actuality has nothing to do with man which is secondary to the topic/study. It was a real eye opener for me personally and through that journey/study has led me out of certain beliefs/doctrines I once held to be true. So as a person who was once reformed and in that box I'm no longer reformed but I am always being reformed and open to Gods leading ,direction, correction of my beliefs. God has stripped much of my pride away and it has been humbling to admit I was wrong. And I'm sure that I'm still wrong on some things I presently believe to be true. So having an open mind with Gods word has been a blessing. It has caused me to dig deeper into understanding the very God we worship and serve who gave His life for us that we might live in and through Him. My goal is to have my mind transformed and renewed daily as per Romans 12:1-2- metamorphosed and to have the mind of Christ. Its all about Him form cover to cover and we can know what God is like by reading the gospels and seeing God in action in the flesh as a man living among us. And all the epistle's written about what it means to be Christ-like in our daily walk. Personally I'm more excited about Christ now then I have ever been over the past 40 plus years as a believer. I'm so happy to have my first love back in a passionate way and being renewed on a daily basis. His word has become alive again, active and sharper than a 2 edged sword piercing my heart and my thoughts. It has become a mirror again where I can see my reflection and areas that need correction. I love where the Good Lord has been leading me in this journey and grateful for His mercy, patience, love and forgiveness along the way. hope this helps !!! Awesome testimony. The very last sentence of your post really got to me. It made me think of the children of Israel and their 40-year journey, God had his hand on them the whole way. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 8:02:37 GMT -8
Among the most universal beliefs across all humanity is the concept of “good versus evil.” Every culture in every era has held to some version of this struggle............. The Bible’s teaching on good versus evil leads to a challenging conclusion: that every person is obligated to make a fundamental choice between the two................. Good article but it leaves out something that is critically important: God's almighty sovereignty! While the Bible does often use the language of conflict, of " war," "battle," "struggle," fight," etc., it always does so within the very explicit and specific context of the Creator's existence, and that Creator " cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." In relationship to the ALL-MIGHTY sovereign and omni-attributed Creator God, evil is like shooting spitwads at a Panther or Abrams tank. The tank doesn't even know you're there and when it realizes your existence it vaporizes you with a single shot. God spoke creation into existence and if He wanted to do so He can speak it out of existence in less time than can be measured by the creature that no longer exists. There is no conflict between God and anything. No battle lasts one fraction of a nanosecond longer than He permits. Therefore...... when you and I are in the midst of some perceived conflict or struggle it does us well to remember this fact: God is almighty. 2 Chronicles 20:14-1514Then in the midst of the assembly the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, the Levite of the sons of Asaph; 15and he said, “Listen, all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and King Jehoshaphat: thus says the LORD to you, ‘Do not fear or be dismayed because of this great multitude, for the battle is not yours but God’s.'"1 Samuel 17:46-4746This day the LORD will hand you over to me, and I will strike you and remove your head from you. Then I will give the dead bodies of the army of the Philistines this day to the birds of the sky and the wild animals of the earth, so that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, 47and that this entire assembly may know that the LORD does not save by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD’S, and He will hand you over to us!” 48Then it happened.... Then it happened.  Just as He had countless times for His earlier covenant people, the LORD your God, who goes before you, will Himself fight for you (Dt. 1:30). We've got the biggest, fastest, most powerfullest weapon that exists. One last thought. It's a bit more sobering unless you remember your destiny. As far as temporal battles go, it may well be God's purpose to see one of us die in that battle. There's no guarantee you won't fail, won't have your reputation destroyed, or that you won't lose this life. Paul was prepared from the birth to do what he did. He was summoned to his calling as a foolish, arrogant man and sent straight to his death almost forty years later. I suspect he knew it would be his final sermon. Then it happened. Put the bit in your mouth and run into the fray with determination and confidence. Ephesians 6:10-1810Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance... Extinguishing!!! |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Nov 27, 2022 13:45:54 GMT -8
good and evil.
^^^ the bad tree.
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Nov 27, 2022 13:47:40 GMT -8
Yes the enemy is very crafty and causes a person to doubt what God has dais/declared. When we lack faith in His promises or we doubt the Goodness of God we are falling into the same trap set by the serpent in the garden. Its one of the main reasons my studies over the past several years have all been focused upon the nature and character of God- Theology, the study of God which in actuality has nothing to do with man which is secondary to the topic/study. It was a real eye opener for me personally and through that journey/study has led me out of certain beliefs/doctrines I once held to be true. So as a person who was once reformed and in that box I'm no longer reformed but I am always being reformed and open to Gods leading ,direction, correction of my beliefs. God has stripped much of my pride away and it has been humbling to admit I was wrong. And I'm sure that I'm still wrong on some things I presently believe to be true. So having an open mind with Gods word has been a blessing. It has caused me to dig deeper into understanding the very God we worship and serve who gave His life for us that we might live in and through Him. My goal is to have my mind transformed and renewed daily as per Romans 12:1-2- metamorphosed and to have the mind of Christ. Its all about Him form cover to cover and we can know what God is like by reading the gospels and seeing God in action in the flesh as a man living among us. And all the epistle's written about what it means to be Christ-like in our daily walk. Personally I'm more excited about Christ now then I have ever been over the past 40 plus years as a believer. I'm so happy to have my first love back in a passionate way and being renewed on a daily basis. His word has become alive again, active and sharper than a 2 edged sword piercing my heart and my thoughts. It has become a mirror again where I can see my reflection and areas that need correction. I love where the Good Lord has been leading me in this journey and grateful for His mercy, patience, love and forgiveness along the way. hope this helps !!! Awesome testimony. The very last sentence of your post really got to me. It made me think of the children of Israel and their 40-year journey, God had his hand on them the whole way. just getting rid of theology and listening to Him!! |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Nov 27, 2022 13:52:08 GMT -8
the choosing either good and evil
in this foreign land is but
satanic good cop - bad cop.
God’s Good has no need of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I choose our gorgeous majesty - God
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 9:00:17 GMT -8
Awesome testimony. The very last sentence of your post really got to me. It made me think of the children of Israel and their 40-year journey, God had his hand on them the whole way. just getting rid of theology and listening to Him!! False dichotomy. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 9:08:36 GMT -8
the choosing either good and evil in this foreign land is but satanic good cop - bad cop. The land was not " foreign" in the beginning and that choice existed. The thread is not about God's need. The facts of scripture are 1) God planted that tree and 2) God called it " good" (Gen. 1:31). If both options are satanic then why does God command the choosing of good in this land? |
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Post by e v e on Nov 28, 2022 12:46:07 GMT -8
the choosing either good and evil in this foreign land is but satanic good cop - bad cop. The land was not " foreign" in the beginning and that choice existed. The thread is not about God's need. The facts of scripture are 1) God planted that tree and 2) God called it " good" (Gen. 1:31). If both options are satanic then why does God command the choosing of good in this land? the context of the land declared Good is not this earth. it is fine to reject evil, inclusive the entire knowledge of good & evil tree of which this foreign land (this earth) we are in is a part. the land of creation, is not this one where we are. We were barred from our land and are somewhere else. the ten commandments are given us to protect our souls from depravity (this world!) until we go home (rapture). this land and body is the dead body of haggai. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 16:21:53 GMT -8
The land was not " foreign" in the beginning and that choice existed. The thread is not about God's need. The facts of scripture are 1) God planted that tree and 2) God called it " good" (Gen. 1:31). If both options are satanic then why does God command the choosing of good in this land? the context of the land declared Good is not this earth. Thus begins an old pattern between you and I. I post a scriptural point of view and you post another evidence-less claim whereby I will ask for more evidence only to receive another baseless claim prompting me to ask for even more evidence and on and on it will go without any evidence ever being volunteered proactively. The "context" of the land declared good is in fact this earth and i did not provide a single bit of evidence to prove otherwise! Please don't make claims without providing some sembalnce of support from the Bible. Here's what the Bible actually states, Genesis 1:1-31
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth. " There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. The context is decidedly this earth. The world has changed, but it's still the same earth. It's still the same land. It was in that good land that God planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It says so plainly in the very next chapter. Genesis 2:4-17
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
According to Genesis 1 EVERYTHING God made in the first six days ways good; it was very good. Then, in the very next chapter, we read " the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created ( when, not after they were created), and we read God planted a garden and among the many, many, many types of flora He planted therein He planted two trees, one was the tree of life and the other was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and according to Genesis 1:31, BOTH trees were good; they were very good. It wasn't until long after Eve, and then Adam, had disobeyed God by abusing the tree in the middle of the garden that God changed anything having to do with the land. It's very important to remember the land outside of the garden was still desolate. God had blessed Adam and Eve and told them to subdue the earth and rule over it..... from the good, unashamed, and sinless state with which He had created both Adam and Eve, and the earth. Inside the graden: plants and animals aplenty that produced according to their kind and ALL of it was good and sinless. Outside the garden: desolate, but still good and sinless. There's no " foreign" land. Let's not forget what you're supposed to be explaining: your original comment was, " the choosing either good and evil in this foreign land is but satanic good cop - bad cop." There are some very serious implications to that sentence beginning with the premise any land would be foreign to the adopted sons and daughters of The Most High God. All creation awaits our revealing (Rom. 8:19). More fundamentally, this implies there is a place in God's creation where God is not at home or in his own land. He created it! So how do you avoid pagan Greek dualism? Then there is the matter of good itself being changed so that it is somehow satanic. If there was once a good that wasn't satanic but now "the choosing either good and evil in this foreign land is but satanic good cop - bad cop," then good itself either no longer exists or it has changed ontologically (its nature has changed). There's no choosing of good and evil that is Godly. You've precluded that condition, e v e. Was that a lapse, or was it intended? If the latter, then do please explain it. Lastly, there is the matter of God Himself asking the not-good human to be good and make good choices. Is that a set-up by God? No one is good, according to Mark 10:18, but still God asks us to choose good, to choose life. If, as you say, " the choosing either good and evil in this foreign land is but satanic good cop - bad cop," is the only option available then the choosing of life is a satanic choice, not a good that might be Godly.... and God Himself has asked us to choose satanically. I'll take the Greeks any day over that. So..... assume that is not what was intended, but you'll have to clarify what you meant because not all choices between good and evil are satanic good cop - bad cop. So let me offer some aid. First, don't conflate "land" with "earth" or "world." The Hebrew and Greek language will help with the distinctions and overlaps, but not their theologies/philosophies/mythologies. Second, avoid the problem of making one finite creature's action having more power than God. The adversary disobeyed God, but he does not have the power to change everything God made, especially not in any manner the Creator of All Things doesn't want it changed. The exact same truth holds true for humanity. By the disobedience of one man sin entered the world and with it came death (dead in sin) but that man's action is not more powerful or sovereign than God. In point of fact, both the angelic creature and the human creature died in sin the moment they disobeyed their creator. If the tradition or mythology attending Lucifer/satan is true then all his glory was stripped from him, he's been held in bondage, and now he can only masquerade. Poor shmuck. Lastly, when scripture speaks of us being foreigners in a foreign land, that has context. We live here on earth (for now) and our citizenry is in heaven but care must be taken to avoid any false dichotomy that divides the heavens and the earth to the point one is not the creation of God where He is sovereign and almighty. Prove it. Because it looks like you've handed the land and the good over to satan. Then why did He plant it and then call it good? Genesis 3:22-23
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"— therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
Let's not forget this, either. According to Genesis 3:22, God knows good and evil. God did not need the tree to know that knowledge, though, did He? What then was the need for God to place that tree in His garden and call it good? You're making a lot of claims, e v e, but none of them are being evidenced or explained and, so far, not a single word of it is on-topic to this op. This op is about the "Conflict Between Good and Evil." It is intended for " Christian Growth." Did you mean to hijack this op for your own agenda? Or do you plan on showing us how any of this relates to Christian growth because Christians do not need pagan Greek concepts, getting rid of theology is not mutually exclusive of listening to God, the land is not foreign, choosing good is not satanic, and God did in fact declare the earth good in the context of this earth. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 16:44:45 GMT -8
The land was not " foreign" in the beginning and that choice existed. The thread is not about God's need. The facts of scripture are 1) God planted that tree and 2) God called it " good" (Gen. 1:31). If both options are satanic then why does God command the choosing of good in this land? it is fine to reject evil, inclusive the entire knowledge of good & evil tree of which this foreign land (this earth) we are in is a part. Is "fine" good or not? If it is good, then it "fine" a satanic good, or some other good, because you've said, " choosing either good and evil... is but satanic good cop - bad cop"? Are the reasons why it is important for ALL of us to post cogently and coherently, clearly and articulately, so as not to make things more difficult or obscure becoming clearer? We're not actually reading evidence of, " just getting rid of theology and listening to Him." We're reading more and more theology with each post! That is theology!  . . . That is certainly one way to look at it. Let's look at a couple of things the scriptures state. Genesis 1:28-31
God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. Genesis 3:22-24
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" — therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. God originally told Adam and Eve to fill and subdue the earth. That was not going to happen staying in the garden. Therefore, God kicked him out of the garden. Notice something else the verse states: Adam was to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. Apparently, he was not taken from the ground of the garden, but the ground outside of the garden, or more accurately, the ground that preceded the garden, the uncultivated ground. What we were barred from was the tree of life. The text explicitly states the reason for God removing sinful humanity from the garden was not to prevent it from the garden, but to prevent it from one specific tree in the garden, the tree of life. So.... We find that 1) you do in fact post theology, 2) We find the theology being posted needs either an explanation to prove its veracity or serious correction in several places, and (lest this be missed) 3) the way you handle this discussion right here and now will provide an example for Christian growth to others. This op is specifically on the conflict between good and evil and you've said choosing good and evil in this foreign land is satanic good cop - bad cop. That's not really a conflict. |
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