netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 13, 2022 6:36:35 GMT -8
The believer is never in trouble with God! Everything he goes through is for learning, and never punishment; “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth” (Heb 12:6). Chastening out of love is God’s way, and not out of man’s anger, for they “chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness” (Heb 12:10).
There is now a new way of everything, especially a permanent “desire” only for God’s “good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). This means you will ever be after pleasing God more than anything, thus you will be learning His will concerning everything (2Ti 2:7). Our “old man” continues to distract us (Ro 7:17, 20), but God guides and enables us, through His Word, to learn how to respond to whatever we encounter (give it time). After all, there’s nothing that can happen unto you that He doesn’t “work together” for your “good” (Ro 8:28); and this isn’t dependent upon how you feel or what you think about it—because it’s His love for His Son and those who are His that He unfailingly directs.
Now that “He made us accepted in the Beloved” (Eph 1:6), we are treated as a child loved by the Father, and having a “new man” or new nature, He knows our primary desire is His will. The sin is now unintended and impulsive, instead of on purpose and “presumptuous” (Num 15:30; Heb 10:26). Even when we’re angry for the wrong reason, He always brings us to the right mind—His mind—about everything. Of course He would—as a Father who loves His child! Not to punish, but just to teach.
There will never be a time where God frowns on you, because He knows that in everything you’re doing, you’re trying to please Him and give Him joy. This is what counts and is what He takes to heart. In all this, it is most comforting to know that we know God knows this!
NC
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -8
The believer is never in trouble with God! Everything he goes through is for learning, and never punishment; “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth” (Heb 12:6). Chastening out of love is God’s way, and not out of man’s anger, for they “chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness” (Heb 12:10).
There is now a new way of everything, especially a permanent “desire” only for God’s “good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). This means you will ever be after pleasing God more than anything, thus you will be learning His will concerning everything (2Ti 2:7). Our “old man” continues to distract us (Ro 7:17, 20), but God guides and enables us, through His Word, to learn how to respond to whatever we encounter (give it time). After all, there’s nothing that can happen unto you that He doesn’t “work together” for your “good” (Ro 8:28); and this isn’t dependent upon how you feel or what you think about it—because it’s His love for His Son and those who are His that He unfailingly directs.
Now that “He made us accepted in the Beloved” (Eph 1:6), we are treated as a child loved by the Father, and having a “new man” or new nature, He knows our primary desire is His will. The sin is now unintended and impulsive, instead of on purpose and “presumptuous” (Num 15:30; Heb 10:26). Even when we’re angry for the wrong reason, He always brings us to the right mind—His mind—about everything. Of course He would—as a Father who loves His child! Not to punish, but just to teach.
There will never be a time where God frowns on you, because He knows that in everything you’re doing, you’re trying to please Him and give Him joy. This is what counts and is what He takes to heart. In all this, it is most comforting to know that we know God knows this!
NC While I completely agree with the intended sentiment (we can trust God to work all things for good according to His purpose) there are some angels in the details that warrant clarification, starting with the word "trouble." We are often in trouble. All things, including "trouble" are in God's hands. The Old Testament is full of statements reporting God brining trouble. Job tied the sowing of trouble and iniquity reaping more of the same. There at least a score of examples in the Psalms of the psalmist declaring his safety in God amidst trouble and at least another score asserting God as the bringer of trouble. In the New Testament trouble like suffering and tribulation are treated as givens to be expected. In the letters to the seven churches in Revelation it is not a given all members of those congregations will overcome. All will experience trouble. Some will be in trouble with God. Just saying. Revelation 2:9-11
'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.' Otherwise, the second death hurts  . |
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netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 13, 2022 10:50:09 GMT -8
While I completely agree with the intended sentiment (we can trust God to work all things for good according to His purpose) there are some angels in the details that warrant clarification, starting with the word "trouble." We are often in trouble. All things, including "trouble" are in God's hands. The Old Testament is full of statements reporting God brining trouble. Revelation 2:9-11
'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'I can understand your reasoning, when considering the OT. But under the covenant of redemption there shouldn't be any trouble, just problems to be worked out (Jn 14:1, 27). This includes "tribulation," which doesn't have to be troublesome either in Christ (unless you're an unbeliever). There's nothing we have to allow to be troublesome if we know God works everything for our "good." The manner of a Christian is superior to that of one under the OT; for we have everything that "pertains unto life and godliness" (2Pe 1:3). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 11:32:50 GMT -8
While I completely agree with the intended sentiment (we can trust God to work all things for good according to His purpose) there are some angels in the details that warrant clarification, starting with the word "trouble." We are often in trouble. All things, including "trouble" are in God's hands. The Old Testament is full of statements reporting God brining trouble. Revelation 2:9-11
'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'I can understand your reasoning, when considering the OT. But under the covenant of redemption there shouldn't be any trouble, just problems to be worked out (Jn 14:1, 27). This includes "tribulation," which doesn't have to be troublesome either in Christ (unless you're an unbeliever). There's nothing we have to allow to be troublesome if we know God works everything for our "good." The manner of a Christian is superior to that of one under the OT; for we have everything that "pertains unto life and godliness" (2Pe 1:3). I'm glad at least the reasoning is understood  . How do you define "trouble"? How do you reconcile John 14:1,27 with the Revelation text I quoted in the previous post? Saying something "doesn't have to be 'troublesome'" is not the same thing as saying it isn't trouble. No, we do NOT know God works everything for our good. We do know He works everything for good according to HIS purpose, not ours. God's purpose might well mean we are destroyed. On all such occasions our destiny is preserved, but that does not mean we might not suffer trouble. It does not mean we won't suffer death. In this very same passage where Paul informs us of God's promise to work good according to His purpose Paul also recounts a series of troubles. He concludes none of it will separate him from the love of God that is in His Son, but what he describes is trouble. Elsewhere Paul speaks of starvation, deprivation, and multiple occasions of beatings. That is trouble. On another occasion Paul spoke of a "thorn" (an Old Testament idiom indicating judgment) from which he could not find relief, and God's response was His grace was sufficient for that..... trouble. So, when this op says we are never in trouble with God I think it's important for you to clarify that so those entering the op after me will better understand what you mean, especially since John 14:1 and 27 do not actually state we won't ever be in trouble with God. It simply states our hearts should not be troubled, but instead believe in God, His Son, and accept the peace provided therein. Define your terms. |
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netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 13, 2022 13:24:39 GMT -8
I can understand your reasoning, when considering the OT. But under the covenant of redemption there shouldn't be any trouble, just problems to be worked out (Jn 14:1, 27). This includes "tribulation," which doesn't have to be troublesome either in Christ (unless you're an unbeliever). There's nothing we have to allow to be troublesome if we know God works everything for our "good." The manner of a Christian is superior to that of one under the OT; for we have everything that "pertains unto life and godliness" (2Pe 1:3). I'm glad at least the reasoning is understood . How do you define "trouble"? How do you reconcile John 14:1,27 with the Revelation text I quoted in the previous post?
Luke told us that "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God (Act 14:22); and I wouldn't think he would say anything that would conflict with John 14:1, 27).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 14:15:46 GMT -8
I'm glad at least the reasoning is understood . How do you define "trouble"? How do you reconcile John 14:1,27 with the Revelation text I quoted in the previous post?
Yes, that is trouble and that is definitely not trouble with God. What you're describing is sin, according to Romans 14:23, because it is a lack of faith. Romans 14:23But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.Although Paul is specifically addressing the problem of weakness of faith and using eating and special days as examples, his conclusion applies. We're not sure. We're not sure God is working. We're not sure God is working His good in our lives. I must again point out "our good" when we face troubles is not what John 14:1 and 27 are about, and it is explicitly NOT what Paul asserts in Romans 8:28. It is God's good, not our good. We experience trouble but we are not in trouble with God unless we're not sure God is working everything out for His good according to His purpose, because that is a sinful lack of surety. That is trouble and it will bring trouble with God. Here's an example of what God says about those who doubt in times of trouble, James 1:2-8
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
That person, not being sure of God's work in his/her life, should not expect to receive anything from God. That places the doubter, the double-minded man in a curious predicament because the very trouble of lacking sureness might well bring about more trouble! Consider what happened to Achan and his family. Joshua 7:25
Joshua said, "Why have you troubled us? The LORD will trouble you this day." And all Israel stoned them with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones.
Nehemiah observed the same condition pertaining to those failing to observe the Sabbath. Nehemiah 13:18
"Did not your fathers do the same, so that our God brought on us and on this city all this trouble? Yet you are adding to the wrath on Israel by profaning the sabbath."
I'll leave out Job and the Psalms because it's simply too obvious. God brings trouble upon those who find themselves in trouble with God AND He rescues those who live by faith from their troubles. Faith begets faithfulness and faithfulness brings God working good in the lives of those who love Him according to His purpose. Matthew 6:34
"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."That is all true. If you mean a believer allowing trouble does not jeopardize his salvation, then I am inclined to agree BUT allowing trouble in one's life might be an indication salvation is lacking and never existent. On the one hand it might be a case of, 1 Timothy 5:20
Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.
but it might also be a case of, 1 John 3:6
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
But, assuming salvation as a given, then you are correct. The saved are saved. They are saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Be sure. [/font][/quote] No, I would in fact say the two collaborate and confirm what James said in the first chapter of his epistle, as well as what Peter said in 1 Peter 1 and 2 Peter 3, and what Paul wrote in Romans 5. Of the persecution common in the first century Peter said, 1 Peter 4:12-14
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
There is the trouble we bring upon ourselves (usually due to a lack of faith), the trouble others bring upon us, and the trouble God brings. Regardless of the source, the destiny of those who live by faith is assured. |
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netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 14, 2022 8:24:07 GMT -8
Trouble is when you're not sure God is working everything out for your "good."
Although Paul is specifically addressing the problem of weakness of faith and using eating and special days as examples, his conclusion applies. We're not sure. We're not sure God is working. We're not sure God is working His good in our lives. I must again point out "our good" when we face troubles is not what John 14:1 and 27 are about, and it is explicitly NOT what Paul asserts in Romans 8:28. It is God's good, not our good. We experience trouble but we are not in trouble with God unless we're not sure God is working everything out for His good according to His purpose, because that is a sinful lack of surety. That is trouble and it will bring trouble with God. Here's an example of what God says about those who doubt in times of trouble, Not to dispute your interpretation of Ro 8:28 personally, but it is "to them that love God." [/quote] |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 10:52:49 GMT -8
Although Paul is specifically addressing the problem of weakness of faith and using eating and special days as examples, his conclusion applies. We're not sure. We're not sure God is working. We're not sure God is working His good in our lives. I must again point out "our good" when we face troubles is not what John 14:1 and 27 are about, and it is explicitly NOT what Paul asserts in Romans 8:28. It is God's good, not our good. We experience trouble but we are not in trouble with God unless we're not sure God is working everything out for His good according to His purpose, because that is a sinful lack of surety. That is trouble and it will bring trouble with God. Here's an example of what God says about those who doubt in times of trouble, Not to dispute your interpretation of Ro 8:28 personally, but it is "to them that love God." Which is exactly what I posted. If you'll look at the previous post the statement, " Faith begets faithfulness and faithfulness brings God working good in the lives of those who love Him according to His purpose," will be found. I will concede the placement of " according to His purpose" looks like I'm saying the love is according to His purpose, instead of God's working but it should not be read that way in light of my prior statement explicitly emphasizing God's working good according to His purpose. I should have included "... and are called...."according to His purpose. but only those looking for problems would find such a problem. There is no purpose in creation but God's, especially not for those in Christ. We love because He first loved us. Absent the precedent of God's purpose and God's love none of what we're discussing would exist. So I'm not understanding how anything I wrote would be construed to say anything different than " to them that love God." |
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netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 14, 2022 11:50:55 GMT -8
Not to dispute your interpretation of Ro 8:28 personally, but it is "to them that love God." Which is exactly what I posted. If you'll look at the previous post the statement, " Faith begets faithfulness and faithfulness brings God working good in the lives of those who love Him according to His purpose," will be found. I will concede the placement of " according to His purpose" looks like I'm saying the love is according to His purpose, instead of God's working but it should not be read that way in light of my prior statement explicitly emphasizing God's working good according to His purpose. I should have included "... and are called...."according to His purpose. but only those looking for problems would find such a problem. There is no purpose in creation but God's, especially not for those in Christ. We love because He first loved us. Absent the precedent of God's purpose and God's love none of what we're discussing would exist. So I'm not understanding how anything I wrote would be construed to say anything different than " to them that love God." You could say, "to them that love God do all things work together for good" |
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Post by civic on Oct 15, 2022 4:30:15 GMT -8
Which is exactly what I posted. If you'll look at the previous post the statement, " Faith begets faithfulness and faithfulness brings God working good in the lives of those who love Him according to His purpose," will be found. I will concede the placement of " according to His purpose" looks like I'm saying the love is according to His purpose, instead of God's working but it should not be read that way in light of my prior statement explicitly emphasizing God's working good according to His purpose. I should have included "... and are called...."according to His purpose. but only those looking for problems would find such a problem. There is no purpose in creation but God's, especially not for those in Christ. We love because He first loved us. Absent the precedent of God's purpose and God's love none of what we're discussing would exist. So I'm not understanding how anything I wrote would be construed to say anything different than " to them that love God." You could say, "to them that love God do all things work together for good" Yes that’s a good way of putting it brother |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 5:00:00 GMT -8
Which is exactly what I posted. If you'll look at the previous post the statement, " Faith begets faithfulness and faithfulness brings God working good in the lives of those who love Him according to His purpose," will be found. I will concede the placement of " according to His purpose" looks like I'm saying the love is according to His purpose, instead of God's working but it should not be read that way in light of my prior statement explicitly emphasizing God's working good according to His purpose. I should have included "... and are called...."according to His purpose. but only those looking for problems would find such a problem. There is no purpose in creation but God's, especially not for those in Christ. We love because He first loved us. Absent the precedent of God's purpose and God's love none of what we're discussing would exist. So I'm not understanding how anything I wrote would be construed to say anything different than " to them that love God." You could say, "to them that love God do all things work together for good" Yep. To them that love God and are called according to His purpose do all things work together for good." Paul writes this in the context of our being justified by Christ, by faith, because all men stood condemned due to Adam. That is trouble. The Law was given to increase transgression and grace would more abound, but that is not a license to sin more. That too would be trouble. We, having been justified by Christ, by faith, are no longer slaves to sin (trouble) but slaves to righteousness, enslaved to God by which we benefit sanctification and eventually receive the gifts of adoption and eternal life. That is not trouble . There is now no condemnation if Christ Jesus (God has already worked good in those who love Him and are called according to His purpose), but the struggle between flesh and Spirit persists. The mind of flesh, for example, is hostile to God and id does not and cannot please God. The mind of Spirit if life and peace if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the body. The sufferings (trouble) of this present time do not compare with the glory that is to be revealed to us. We hope and persevere while the Spirit helps us in our weakness (trouble), interceding for us so we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. We have been predestined to conform to His Son. Therefore tribulation (trouble), distress (trouble), persecution (trouble), famine (trouble), nakedness (trouble), peril (trouble), nor sword (trouble) can separate us from the love of God found in Christ Jesus.... even when those conditions come by God's hand (trouble). In all those things we conquer through Him who first loved us. That is the summary of the Romans 5-8 narrative. Acts 21:10-11
As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" Trouble. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 5:02:57 GMT -8
Everything he goes through is for learning, and never punishment; “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth” (Heb 12:6). Chastening out of love is God’s way, and not out of man’s anger, for they “chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness” (Heb 12:10). Yes, and while I do not have time this morning to expound upon it, the thorn in Paul's side was likely due to trouble with God in which Paul found himself. The phrase " thorn in the side" is an Old Testament idiom indicating judgment. Paul pleaded for release. God told him His grace was sufficient (not that He would provide relief). I'll flesh this out (no pun intended) when I have time. |
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netchaplain
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Post by netchaplain on Oct 15, 2022 6:48:15 GMT -8
You could say, "to them that love God do all things work together for good" Yep. To them that love God and are called according to His purpose do all things work together for good." Paul writes this in the context of our being justified by Christ, by faith, because all men stood condemned due to Adam. That is trouble. The Law was given to increase transgression and grace would more abound, but that is not a license to sin more. That too would be trouble. We, having been justified by Christ, by faith, are no longer slaves to sin (trouble) but slaves to righteousness, enslaved to God by which we benefit sanctification and eventually receive the gifts of adoption and eternal life. That is not trouble . There is now no condemnation if Christ Jesus (God has already worked good in those who love Him and are called according to His purpose), but the struggle between flesh and Spirit persists. The mind of flesh, for example, is hostile to God and id does not and cannot please God. The mind of Spirit if life and peace if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the body. The sufferings (trouble) of this present time do not compare with the glory that is to be revealed to us. We hope and persevere while the Spirit helps us in our weakness (trouble), interceding for us so we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. We have been predestined to conform to His Son. Therefore tribulation (trouble), distress (trouble), persecution (trouble), famine (trouble), nakedness (trouble), peril (trouble), nor sword (trouble) can separate us from the love of God found in Christ Jesus.... even when those conditions come by God's hand (trouble). In all those things we conquer through Him who first loved us. That is the summary of the Romans 5-8 narrative. Acts 21:10-11
As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" Trouble. I like what you presented here! Concerning "trouble" in the sense you put it, Paul did not consider it trouble, but rather "glory" in his "infirmities" (2Co 12:5, 9). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 7:39:47 GMT -8
Yep. To them that love God and are called according to His purpose do all things work together for good." Paul writes this in the context of our being justified by Christ, by faith, because all men stood condemned due to Adam. That is trouble. The Law was given to increase transgression and grace would more abound, but that is not a license to sin more. That too would be trouble. We, having been justified by Christ, by faith, are no longer slaves to sin (trouble) but slaves to righteousness, enslaved to God by which we benefit sanctification and eventually receive the gifts of adoption and eternal life. That is not trouble . There is now no condemnation if Christ Jesus (God has already worked good in those who love Him and are called according to His purpose), but the struggle between flesh and Spirit persists. The mind of flesh, for example, is hostile to God and id does not and cannot please God. The mind of Spirit if life and peace if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the body. The sufferings (trouble) of this present time do not compare with the glory that is to be revealed to us. We hope and persevere while the Spirit helps us in our weakness (trouble), interceding for us so we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. We have been predestined to conform to His Son. Therefore tribulation (trouble), distress (trouble), persecution (trouble), famine (trouble), nakedness (trouble), peril (trouble), nor sword (trouble) can separate us from the love of God found in Christ Jesus.... even when those conditions come by God's hand (trouble). In all those things we conquer through Him who first loved us. That is the summary of the Romans 5-8 narrative. Acts 21:10-11
As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: 'In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'" Trouble. I like what you presented here! Concerning "trouble" in the sense you put it, Paul did not consider it trouble, but rather "glory" in his "infirmities" (2Co 12:5, 9). Thx. I think there was more than that going on. Once again, (to reiterate my general agreement with the op), to say we're never in trouble with God warrants clarification because God does sometimes bring trouble upon us and is simultaneously always both disapproving and approving! The blood of His Son covers us, and we should all rejoice in that because, absent that covering, we'd be fodder for destruction. God's grace is all the permits us enough time to read this post . God summoned Saul away from his journey to Damascus with the intent to bind him and make him suffer for Christ. That is trouble. Clearly not the same kind of trouble alluded to in the op. If I understand the op correctly then what is being referenced is the shame and admonition to which we were previously heirs as objects of wrath. We might also suffer for our own wrongdoing both through the natural cause and effect of sin in this temporal earth and through the divine response unique in our life serving His purpose. Paul clearly had a calling, and he had a mission. Despite that calling and mission he found himself under some form of recurring judgment. It's not obvious. A person has to look up the term "thorn in the side" as it's used throughout the Bible to understand this. The thorn as a consequence of judgment begins in Genesis 3 after Adam disobeys God. We see it in Numbers 33:55, Joshua 23:13, Judges 2:3, and elsewhere where the Jews are told not driving out pagans will result in the pagans being thorns in their side. To put it in the vernacular of this op, they were in trouble with God due to their disobedience. And that is the idiom Paul used. 2 Corinthians 12:7-107And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch. 8Concerning this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he hath said unto me, "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness." Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Wherefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.And, apparently, it was for the purpose of showing God's grace and power, and keeping Paul humble. Makes sense. It's probably what led him to his commentary in Philippians 3. He sought not to glory in his own bona fides but those of his Lord and Savior, to know only his crucifixion because the only thing in which he truly excelled in that light was as chief of sinners. Imagine what that was like to have been empowered as the apostles were. It is said Peter's shadow healed! Who would not have some anxiety about standing before Caesar? Especially since the Caesars did things like impaling live Christians, covering them in pitch, and then lighting them afire as night lights. He'd been arrested and appealed to Caesar before Acts 21. From the moment he is told of his chains Paul knows he will be going to Caesar and have the opportunity, the privilege, to utter the gospel in the courts of Caesar. Paul knew there was no authority appointed but by God. Are we to think Paul did not also know that might be his final sermon? Sounds like trouble, to me. |
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