netchaplain
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The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 18, 2023 7:14:30 GMT -8
I say “not improved” because the new man does not need improved, being the nature after Christ (Col 3:10); and the old man cannot be improved, because it cannot be “subject” to the will of God (Rom 8:7)! I am the new man, not the old, for we “are not in the flesh” (old man or sin nature - Ro 8:9), though it yet “dwells within me.” Paul realized that he was not part of the old man when he said he did not do the wrongs, but the sin (old man) did the wrongs (Ro 7:17, 20 ); and we ourselves, in our new man are not in connection with our old man!
God has placed enmity between the believer and the old man (and between anything opposing God), so that it can be said that it’s not the believer, in his new man sinning, but in the old man; and we are not our old man. This is not to deny we sin but that we are not accountable for the old man; because it is not us, the new man that only desires to please God (1Jo 3:9).
God knows our will is only to please Him, for He “works” this in all who are reborn (Phl 2:13). This answers to why the separation, or sanctification from the old man (flesh). He does not want us to have any part with it, other than when we are tested by its temptings. When we see ourselves sin, we know it is not us in the new man but in the old, and we continue to learn God’s will because of it.
The new man does not sin, and it is never intentional or willful when we do sin. This is the intension of Paul’s use of the word “captive” (Ro 7:23). He still sins against his will, and protests that it is not him doing the sin. He has to be brought “into captivity to the law of sin” which is in him.
Paul knew he still sinned, but he also learned that he is “delivered” from the sin (Rom 7:24), and was thankful to God (v 25). He said he served the will of God “with the mind,” which is the intension of his new man; and when he said it was “myself” (v 25), he was referring also to his new self. He admitted still serving “the law of sin,” but he now knew it was not with himself in the new man that did it, but with the “flesh” (old man or sin nature).
I believe this answers to that “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1Jn 3:9). When you are reborn God “works in you” not to desire to sin—which is the goal. The “seed” is the new nature, that “cannot sin,” which are those reborn and have a new nature from Christ (some think the “new man” is Christ, but this cannot be because it was “created” - Eph 4:24).
When we sin, though it is with the old man, we still confess (admit) we sinned and repent; and thank God for His unbroken and “faithful” forgiveness (1Jn 1:9)!
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Post by civic on Feb 20, 2023 6:14:20 GMT -8
What does the pursuit of God look like in a practical way for the believer, the sanctification process ?
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 22, 2023 4:11:41 GMT -8
What does the pursuit of God look like in a practical way for the believer, the sanctification process ? |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 22, 2023 4:28:06 GMT -8
What does the pursuit of God look like in a practical way for the believer, the sanctification process ? Excellent question, but the answer isn't going to be like you may expect, because most understand sanctification as if it is a progression of the maturity of the believer in his walk. But sanctification is a one-time applied attribute of Christ, like holiness, and not something we progress in. We progress in our maturity in Christ (Eph 4:15) as God "conforms us to the image of Christ (from glory to glory - 2Co 3:18), but this is not sanctification because sanctification is merely a setting apart, similar to holiness, and is fully applied in Christ and not in stages. Concerning "the pursuit of God," we are already everything Christ is at rebirth, and it is just a matter of time that it shows due to His "conformation" process, which is not sanctification. If we look at sanctification in Scripture we see it is always a once-applied attribute and never is used as anything else. God bless and thanks for your instructional inquiry! |
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Post by makesends on Feb 22, 2023 6:40:43 GMT -8
What does the pursuit of God look like in a practical way for the believer, the sanctification process ? Excellent question, but the answer isn't going to be like you may expect, because most understand sanctification as if it is a progression of the maturity of the believer in his walk. But sanctification is a one-time applied attribute of Christ, like holiness, and not something we progress in. We progress in our maturity in Christ (Eph 4:15) as God "conforms us to the image of Christ (from glory to glory - 2Co 3:18), but this is not sanctification because sanctification is merely a setting apart, similar to holiness, and is fully applied in Christ and not in stages. Concerning "the pursuit of God," we are already everything Christ is at rebirth, and it is just a matter of time that it shows due to His "conformation" process, which is not sanctification. If we look at sanctification in Scripture we see it is always a once-applied attribute and never is used as anything else. God bless and thanks for your instructional inquiry! What do you take the preposition translated in several places, "unto", to mean, for example in Romans 6:19 (εἰς), "...for as ye presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness unto sanctification." and in vs 22, "...fruit unto sanctification."? See also 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (ἐν) |
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Post by civic on Feb 22, 2023 7:19:53 GMT -8
What does the pursuit of God look like in a practical way for the believer, the sanctification process ? Excellent question, but the answer isn't going to be like you may expect, because most understand sanctification as if it is a progression of the maturity of the believer in his walk. But sanctification is a one-time applied attribute of Christ, like holiness, and not something we progress in. We progress in our maturity in Christ (Eph 4:15) as God "conforms us to the image of Christ (from glory to glory - 2Co 3:18), but this is not sanctification because sanctification is merely a setting apart, similar to holiness, and is fully applied in Christ and not in stages. Concerning "the pursuit of God," we are already everything Christ is at rebirth, and it is just a matter of time that it shows due to His "conformation" process, which is not sanctification. If we look at sanctification in Scripture we see it is always a once-applied attribute and never is used as anything else. God bless and thanks for your instructional inquiry! Do you disagree with this below and if so why? Thanks ! Jesus had a lot to say about sanctification in John 17. In verse 16 the Lord says, “They are not of the world, even as I am not of it,” and this is before His request: “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth” (verse 17). In Christian theology, sanctification is a state of separation unto God; all believers enter into this state when they are born of God: “You are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30, ESV). The sanctification mentioned in this verse is a once-for-ever separation of believers unto God. It is a work God performs, an integral part of our salvation and our connection with Christ (Hebrews 10:10). Theologians sometimes refer to this state of holiness before God as “positional” sanctification; it is the same as justification. While we are positionally holy (“set free from every sin” by the blood of Christ, Acts 13:39), we know that we still sin (1 John 1:10). That’s why the Bible also refers to sanctification as a practical experience of our separation unto God. “Progressive” or “experiential” sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one’s life. It is the same as growing in the Lord (2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity. God started the work of making us like Christ, and He is continuing it (Philippians 1:6). This type of sanctification is to be pursued by the believer earnestly (1 Peter 1:15; Hebrews 12:14) and is effected by the application of the Word (John 17:17). Progressive sanctification has in view the setting apart of believers for the purpose for which they are sent into the world: “As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified” (John 17:18–19). That Jesus set Himself apart for God’s purpose is both the basis and the condition of our being set apart (see John 10:36). We are sanctified and sent because Jesus was. Our Lord’s sanctification is the pattern of and power for our own. The sending and the sanctifying are inseparable. On this account we are called “saints” (hagioi in the Greek), or “sanctified ones.” Prior to salvation, our behavior bore witness to our standing in the world in separation from God, but now our behavior should bear witness to our standing before God in separation from the world. Little by little, every day, “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14, ESV) are becoming more like Christ. There is a third sense in which the word sanctification is used in Scripture—a “complete” or “ultimate” sanctification. This is the same as glorification. Paul prays in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (ESV). Paul speaks of Christ as “the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27) and links the glorious appearing of Christ to our personal glorification: “When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory” (Colossians 3:4). This glorified state will be our ultimate separation from sin, a total sanctification in every regard. “We know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). To summarize, “sanctification” is a translation of the Greek word hagiasmos, meaning “holiness” or “a separation.” In the past, God granted us justification, a once-for-all, positional holiness in Christ. In the present, God guides us to maturity, a practical, progressive holiness. In the future, God will give us glorification, a permanent, ultimate holiness. These three phases of sanctification separate the believer from the penalty of sin (justification), the power of sin (maturity), and the presence of sin (glorification).got? hope this helps !!! |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 23, 2023 6:16:16 GMT -8
Jesus had a lot to say about sanctification I like everything you said, very instructional! I see it that we have to be sanctified because of the sin. God doesn't want us to be a part of it, even though we still sin (Ro 8:9). |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 23, 2023 6:18:29 GMT -8
What do you take the preposition translated in several places, "unto", to mean, for example in Romans 6:19 (εἰς), "...for as ye presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness unto sanctification." and in vs 22, "...fruit unto sanctification."? See also 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (ἐν) "Unto" means towards, to or to be a part of something. |
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Post by makesends on Feb 23, 2023 7:26:32 GMT -8
"Unto" means towards, to or to be a part of something. I'm not asking what "unto" means. I'm asking what you take the Greek preposition to mean in such passages as Romans 6:19 (εἰς), "...for as ye presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness unto sanctification." and in vs 22, "...fruit unto sanctification."? See also 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (ἐν) What I'm looking for is, do you take "εἰς" to imply the righteousness produces the sanctification? —that the fruit produces the sanctification? Or does it mean something more like, "in keeping with sanctification"? Or does it mean more specifically, "as evidences sanctification"? Or what? (And the same question for the "ἐν" of 1 Thessalonians 4:7.) It can mean the difference as to whether "sanctification" —at least in those examples— is a one-time thing, or a process. |
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Post by civic on Feb 23, 2023 8:41:15 GMT -8
Jesus had a lot to say about sanctification I like everything you said, very instructional! I see it that we have to be sanctified because of the sin. God doesn't want us to be a part of it, even though we still sin (Ro 8:9). ditto brother |
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Post by rockson on Feb 25, 2023 1:42:08 GMT -8
I say “not improved” because the new man does not need improved, being the nature after Christ (Col 3:10); and the old man cannot be improved, because it cannot be “subject” to the will of God (Rom 8:7)!
Rockson's Words: True God's desire is not to try to improve the Old Man. The Old Man had to die the death and we're to reckon ourselves dead and what we have and are is the new man created in Christ Jesus with the life of God within. Rm 6:11 It's a daily, moment by moment, day by day walking that out and identifying with the New Man. We will sin but when we do we've walked out of identifying with the new man. I've often thought about it like the principles which cause an airplane to fly. Gravity is cancelled out AS LONG as the plane moment by moment applies the laws which cause it to fly....law of lift, law of thrust....
If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Walking in the Spirit is something we potentially can do at all times. Sadly we don't always do it.
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Post by rockson on Feb 25, 2023 2:22:47 GMT -8
More thoughts on sanctification.
I believe our sanctification is Jesus. Heb 10:10, 1 Cor 1:30 We are in him and our life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:3 I've seen many through the years trying to get victory. Victory over sin, victory of the world, the flesh and the devil. That was my longing for a number of years in my Christian life. Then I came to see victory isn't something I need to seek after. Victory in Christ already is my position. Jesus defeated past tense principalities and powers all Satan's kingdom....for me. Col 2:15 It's already been done. He didn't need to do it for himself. He was already free.
For one to always be seeking freedom is like someone wanting to get into a certain room......not understanding he's already in the room. The devil keeps telling him you've got to get into it but no.....you're already in it. By acknowledging boldly who and what you are In Christ and rejoicing with continual praise you cause the reality of it to manifest....where you by experience, feel the power and deliverance. Legally (if one wanted to think of spiritual law) you are positioned already in victory. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Eph 2:6 The reality of what YOU ARE needs however to become manifested upon you and in you but that's released by the walk of faith that is faith in what God says you are. 1 Jn 5:4
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Post by civic on Feb 25, 2023 5:26:06 GMT -8
More thoughts on sanctification. I believe our sanctification is Jesus. Heb 10:10, 1 Cor 1:30 We are in him and our life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:3 I've seen many through the years trying to get victory. Victory over sin, victory of the world, the flesh and the devil. That was my longing for a number of years in my Christian life. Then I came to see victory isn't something I need to seek after. Victory in Christ already is my position. Jesus defeated past tense principalities and powers all Satan's kingdom....for me. Col 2:15 It's already been done. He didn't need to do it for himself. He was already free. For one to always be seeking freedom is like someone wanting to get into a certain room......not understanding he's already in the room. The devil keeps telling him you've got to get into it but no.....you're already in it. By acknowledging boldly who and what you are In Christ and rejoicing with continual praise you cause the reality of it to manifest....where you by experience, feel the power and deliverance. Legally (if one wanted to think of spiritual law) you are positioned already in victory. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Eph 2:6 The reality of what YOU ARE needs however to become manifested upon you and in you but that's released by the walk of faith that is faith in what God says you are. 1 Jn 5:4 Thanks for the input brother. We have been reading through the pursuit of God on Tuesday nights with our mens group. Last week we were talking about His universal presence. Not only does God dwell in us but is with us. One man shared how he was recently praying in his study room and for the first time realized God was actually there with him in that room. He imagined God was sitting in his recliner next to him while he was praying and became overwhelmed by His presence for the first time something like the experience we read with Isaiah in chapter 6 or John in chapter 1 of Revelation. Then I shared the story of footprints in the sand poster and how He is always walking with us even though we do not realize it and when we question God lookingg back on hard times and not seeing His footprints it was Him carrying us through it. |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Feb 25, 2023 6:36:39 GMT -8
More thoughts on sanctification. I believe our sanctification is Jesus. Heb 10:10, 1 Cor 1:30 We are in him and our life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:3 I've seen many through the years trying to get victory. Victory over sin, victory of the world, the flesh and the devil. That was my longing for a number of years in my Christian life. Then I came to see victory isn't something I need to seek after. Victory in Christ already is my position. Jesus defeated past tense principalities and powers all Satan's kingdom....for me. Col 2:15 It's already been done. He didn't need to do it for himself. He was already free. For one to always be seeking freedom is like someone wanting to get into a certain room......not understanding he's already in the room. The devil keeps telling him you've got to get into it but no.....you're already in it. By acknowledging boldly who and what you are In Christ and rejoicing with continual praise you cause the reality of it to manifest....where you by experience, feel the power and deliverance. Legally (if one wanted to think of spiritual law) you are positioned already in victory. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Eph 2:6 The reality of what YOU ARE needs however to become manifested upon you and in you but that's released by the walk of faith that is faith in what God says you are. 1 Jn 5:4 Thanks for the input brother. We have been reading through the pursuit of God on Tuesday nights with our mens group. Last week we were talking about His universal presence. Not only does God dwell in us but is with us. Yes, the Father is with us, but it is through the Holy Spirit, because God, like the Lord Jesus, is in heaven. God is with us through the Life of Christ, "who is our Life" (Col 3:4). The Spirit uses the Life of Christ in us to bring forth fruit unto the Father. Though it is not the life of the Spirit but yet, it is all by the power of the Spirit, who is in us representing the Father and the Son. |
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