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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 11, 2022 7:25:03 GMT -8
I did this study a few years ago. Thought i would share it in parts and see if we can get some discussion going on. Especially since the return of Christ is the event which crushes or destroys these beasts to put an end to the gentile rule, and set up his own kingdom.
4 beasts of daniel (kingdoms)
we will start with Dan 2
Head - Gold Babylon (nebachadnezzar)
Chest and arms - Silver -Media/Peria
belly and thighs bronze - Greece
legs - iron - Rome
feet - iron and clay - Rome 2
concerning the 4th beast
Iron (strong)
Will crush all other kingdoms, and power and territory will exceed all of the other kingdoms.
It was this kingdom which was in power during the time of Christ, during the time of the writing of revelation. and in 70 ad, It had one king (Vespasian) and its power was at its fullest. The people of this king destroyed the city of Jerusalem and its temple. (Titus) who at the death of Vespasian, became king of Rome, proving that in this time, we were still under the 4th or roman kingdom of iron.
next comes the next kingdom;
Will be divided but still have the strength of the original kingdom
partly strong and partly fragile (divided as it is not one kingdom in unity, but many kingdoms, which will not adhere to one another (be in unity)
In the days of this kingdom, Christ will return and set up his kingdom which will never be destroyed. Christ himself (the stone) in destroying this kingdom. causes all the gentile kingdoms to crumble and fall, destroying all the gentile kingdoms (the statue) which was seen by nebechadnezzar.
34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
As you see, the stone struck the iron and clay feet, destroying it. and causing all the kingdoms which it supported to crash and burn.
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever
When the final kingdom (iron and clay) is destroyed, God himself will set up his kingdom, which will never be destroyed.
so what we have is this, in this shorter vision daniel is exposed to (a much greater one will come later)
1. only 4 kingdoms were in power up till Christ, the same 4th kingdom destroyed the city and temple.
2. History shows when rome fell, it was divided into two parts (not ten) and then fell off the map.
3. Up until this day, there has been no nation which has had ten kings, which has part of the power of rome (iron) and part of the power of man (clay)
4. The final kingdom will be crushed by God himself, at that time, Gods kingdom will be established which will never be destroyed.
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 12, 2022 9:47:51 GMT -8
We next move to Dan 7 -
dan 7
Lion with eagles wings - Babylon, we are told wings were plucked off (lost its power) and made to stand like a man. Nebachadnezar lost his power. and made to crawl like an animal later, stood up again and regained his power (after confessing one God)
bear, standing up on one side - Media Persia -two sided bear, One stronger than the other, History showed the Medes were weaker power, Persia united with them, and was much stronger. In fact most historians call this the Persian empire, 3 ribs = 3 kingdoms destroyed by the persians, They Egyptian, Assyrian and Babylonian empires were taken by this power
Leopard - 4 wings and 4 heads - Greek - one power splintered into 4 when Alexander the great died at a young age.
Concerning the 4th beast;
1. Huge and powerfull with iron teeth. - rome, again the iron kingdom. Again, the most powerful, Rome actually held more land than any kingdom previous and any since, It also had the longest reign of any of the previous kingdoms on earth (including back to Egyptian kingdom)
2. we are then told out of this beast 10 horns will arise, which are ten kingdoms, out of which grows one horn which destroys three horns. he is given a mouth, and speaks pompous words. Had teeth of Iron and Nails of bronze (in chapter two it was iron and clay mixed)
what we see here is a more detailed vision which goes into greater detail than the basic one of daniel 2 of the 4th beast, Chapter 8 goes into greater detail of the second two empires The interpretation given is mostly concerning the 4th beast, which was great and terrible. What we also see is another example of a prophetic gap between the original roman empire, and the reformed roman ten king empire, however, this gap is made more clear here as we will see.
According to the interpretation we are told this about the reformed empire;
1. 10 horns are ten kings, which will arise out of the original beast
2. Another will arise (the little horn)
3. He will subdue three of the kings and these kingdoms will be added to his kingdom (leaving 8 kingdoms)
4. He shall speak blasphemies against the most high God
5. He shall change times and laws
6. He shall gain control of the whole earth
7. Saints are given to him, and he will persecute them for times time and half a time (3 1/2 years)
8. He is slain at the end by Christ and sent to burning flame
9. Kingdom given to the Christ, and all men and nations and languages shall serve him.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 14, 2022 11:12:08 GMT -8
The UN has divided the world into 10 regions and is a viable alternative to the Rome antichrist theory.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 14, 2022 17:51:00 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 8:05:07 GMT -8
I did this study a few years ago. Thought i would share it in parts and see if we can get some discussion going on. Especially since the return of Christ is the event which crushes or destroys these beasts to put an end to the gentile rule, and set up his own kingdom. 4 beasts of daniel (kingdoms) we will start with Dan 2 Head - Gold Babylon (nebachadnezzar) Chest and arms - Silver -Media/Peria belly and thighs bronze - Greece legs - iron - Rome feet - iron and clay - Rome 2 That is not what Daniel says. The Bible itself does not identify the kingdoms of Daniel 2. In Daniel 7 the book of Daniel has Daniel interpreting the beasts as kings (persons) not kingdoms, adding only the fourth beast is also a kingdom (a king and his kingdom). These facts are clearly and objectively observable from what is plainly written in those chapters. I do not mean to be impertinent but the clear, plain, objectively verifiable statements of God's word clearly do not square with this op. This discrepancy thereby indicates some kind of error in the reported "study." Nowhere in the Bible does the Bible state the third or four beast is Rome. Some translations (like the NASB) have headings stating "Rome" but those headings were added centuries after Daniel was written; they are not in the Hebrew. Those headings are additions to God's word (everyone should make note of that when reading the book of Revelation because that book admonishes against adding to that book). No headings. Furthermore, Daniel 2 plainly states there are four kingdoms, not five. Daniel 2 also plainly states, "... in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed..." In other words, according to God's plainly stated written word, there is a fifth kingdom, but it is a kingdom set up by God AND set up in the days of those kings, not afterwards, not after those kings, but in their days. That kingdom, the kingdom set up by God that is NOT a part of that statue of kingdoms, is a kingdom that will never be destroyed. It is, therefore, NOT "Rome 2." It is not set up after those kings, it is set up during those kings. That is what the book of Daniel actually states. So, again, I must ask where these notions that so drastically conflict with what is actually written in the book of Daniel originated? Why is this purported study not relying on what is plainly stated? Why would Nebuchadnezzar be concerned about a king and his kingdom that wasn't going to exist for 600 more years? Prior to Daniel 2, God had already made mention of a kingdom that He would establish, a kingdom that would never end. Are they the same kingdom? Logic tells us they are because there can't be two simultaneously existing kingdoms that rule all others - they would not rule each other if the ruled all other kingdoms. Later, God also mentioned to another king and prophet He intended to establish another never-ending kingdom. So, the God-made kingdom God mentioned both before and after Daniel is the fifth kingdom, not Rome 2. Why wasn't any of this mentioned in this op? Was any of this considered in the "study"? This never-ending kingdom is also mentioned in the New Testament! Why was that not mentioned? Why were extra-biblical interpretations of the kingdoms/kings/beasts added to scripture under the auspices of "study," but the clear plain statements of the written word ignored? I am not trying to be judgmental, snarky, or rhetorical. These are serious questions. These are valid questions. Can my comments and questions be received? Even if my words won't be received, will the clear plain word of God read as written be received? The Bible does not explicitly label the identities of the first four kingdoms/kings, but it does explicitly identify the fifth, the kingdom that is not part of the Daniel 2 statue AND it explicitly tells us in no uncertain terms who is the king of that kingdom and when that kingdom began. Why was this information not included in this op? We know longer live in an era of kings. Monarchs are the minority in the 21st century. England, not Rome, was the biggest earthly monarchy the world has ever known. The biggest earthly monarchy currently existing around the modern nation-state of Israel is Saudia Arabia. The biggest, longest enduring monarchy in history is that of Christ. He is now enthroned and ruling. Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” Matthew 28:18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me." It may not appear to us here on earth that Jesus NOW has all the power but that is in fact what Jesus himself plainly stated. He's either an idiot, a liar, a lunatic, or he meant what he said and we must bow our understanding to what he said - regardless of what eschatological prognosticators teach. For the record: Prophecy News Watch has never once predicted anything correctly. They have a 100% fail rate. They are teaching falsely. One of the most obvious problems observable in its articles is subjugation of scripture to the events of the world - NOT the other way around!!! Scripture renders history, not history renders scripture. They've got the cart before the horse. Not everyone with a website should be considered legitimate or correct, and those guys have done an egregiously poor job of representing scripture. Look at something stated in the articel to which we are linked in this op, [indent] "Several passages of Scripture have been associated with the "guardian of peace and security" statue at the UN building. Daniel 7:2-4 relates a vision of beasts, representing governments; one is depicted with a body like a lion and wings like an eagle. Revelation 13:2 symbolically refers to a beast being given power and authority by Satan. "[/indent]  WHO is making these "associations" between scripture and the statue outside of the U.N.? Scripture nevers makes any such "association"? They are referring to extra-biblical sources and they are not identifying those sources. Only the first beast of Daniel 7 is a winged lion. There's no mention of wings on the ten-horned beast of Daniel. The ten-horned beast of Revelation 13 has bear's feet, and the UN statue's feet are not like that of a bear. Furthermore, Daniel 7 does NOT represent "governments." Daniel 7 clearly states kings, not governments. Monarchies, not the U.N. or any modern democracy. They've taken liberty with the Daniel 7 text and anyone who bothers to open up their Bible and read what is actually stated in Daniel 7 readily recognizes the liberty they took. In Revelation 13 there are two beasts, and that beast is radically different from the kingdoms of Daniel 2 and the beast of Daniel 7. There are four beasts in Daniel 7 and one of them has four heads. The satan-empowered beast of Revelation 13 has seven heads, not four, and most definitely not one. Look it up and see for yourselves. Should we consider legitimate any source that takes many liberties with scripture? Should we consider truthful any source that twists and adds so much to scripture, especially regarding the one book of the Bible that explicitly directs us, the believers in Christ NOT to add to it? Should we consider Godly sources that try to persuade us, asking us to believe them, when they visibly handle scripture so poorly? Shouldn't we read scripture as written and let scripture's own renderings of itself be the first step in our understanding? . |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 17, 2022 12:02:24 GMT -8
I did this study a few years ago. Thought i would share it in parts and see if we can get some discussion going on. Especially since the return of Christ is the event which crushes or destroys these beasts to put an end to the gentile rule, and set up his own kingdom. 4 beasts of daniel (kingdoms) we will start with Dan 2 Head - Gold Babylon (nebachadnezzar) Chest and arms - Silver -Media/Peria belly and thighs bronze - Greece legs - iron - Rome feet - iron and clay - Rome 2 I have stopped posting. there is more to what I have written. but since no one has responded I figured no one was interested. Scripture does tell us who these "kingdoms" were. In fact later in daniel. they are shown to be babylon, greece and media persia by name while I agree it is kings (denial told Nebuchadnezzar, YOU are the head of gold Nebuchadnezzar represented the kingdom of babylon. you are more than welcome to refute what I said.. But to say it is clear. I am sorry my friend. But that is not a way to start a discussion. I hope you will try again You are more than welcome to refute that the 4th kingdom is rome, But if you deny it is rome. please share who it is? Plainly states only 4? head of gold - babylon chest and arms - media persia belly and thighs - greece legs of iron (4th kingdom) (i will play along and not say this is rome feet of iron and clay (4th kingdom reborn, or 5th kingdom) it is not the 4th kingdom. because the kingdom changed.. and I agree. that final kingdom will be in power when christ returns. which has not happened yet.. Maybe because through years of study and putting these passages up with other passages. it is made clear. why do you see conflict where there is non. You will need to ask God God gave him the dream.. Lets discuss them, rationally and calmly.. I am willing, are you? |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 17, 2022 15:30:51 GMT -8
Prophecy news watch is a quality online news source that has articles of interest to Christians who are concerned about these being the last days. It`s worthwhile for that reason. As far as a discussion goes I`m very interested in this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 16:29:48 GMT -8
Plainly states only 4? head of gold - babylon chest and arms - media persia belly and thighs - greece legs of iron (4th kingdom) (i will play along and not say this is rome feet of iron and clay (4th kingdom reborn, or 5th kingdom) it is not the 4th kingdom. because the kingdom changed.. and I agree. that final kingdom will be in power when christ returns. which has not happened yet............. Lets discuss them, rationally and calmly.. I am willing, are you? Yes, it plainly states "4". Daniel 2:40Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. And there is absolutely no mention of a fifth of anything. The two lines that state, "legs of iron (4th kingdom) (i will play along and not say this is rome feet of iron and clay (4th kingdom reborn, or 5th kingdom) it is not the 4th kingdom. because the kingdom changed.." contradict one another, not just scripture. If it is the fourth kingdom changed then it is the fourth kingdom, not a fifth one. And that is rational, calm discussion. It is nothing more than the plain, simple, direct observation of facts in evidence. The op does not reconcile with what Daniel actually reports. Can you discuss that rationally and calmly? . |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 17, 2022 16:42:46 GMT -8
Yes, it plainly states "4". Daniel 2:40Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. And there is absolutely no mention of a fifth of anything. The two lines that state, "legs of iron (4th kingdom) (i will play along and not say this is rome feet of iron and clay (4th kingdom reborn, or 5th kingdom) it is not the 4th kingdom. because the kingdom changed.." contradict one another, not just scripture. If it is the fourth kingdom changed then it is the fourth kingdom, not a fifth one. And that is rational, calm discussion. It is nothing more than the plain, simple, direct observation of facts in evidence. The op does not reconcile with what Daniel actually reports. Can you discuss that rationally and calmly? . The problem is when you look at the 4th kingdom. Especially in daniel 7, You see parts of that kingdom that til this day has not been fulfilled. Like I said,I did not finish my study. If we go to other parts of daniel and to revelation.we see where it fits together like a puzzle and by the way. The reason I call it a fifth kingdom, is the 4th kingdom, ends. And is reborn many years later. So is in essence a 5th kingdom. Even though it is still the 4th.. many people call them rome 1 and rome 2 and yes. I can discuss rationally. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 17, 2022 16:45:41 GMT -8
Prophecy news watch is a quality online news source that has articles of interest to Christians who are concerned about these being the last days. It`s worthwhile for that reason. As far as a discussion goes I`m very interested in this forum. I will have to check it out..welcome. To the forum  |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 17, 2022 23:14:49 GMT -8
The problem is when you look at the 4th kingdom. Especially in daniel 7, You see parts of that kingdom that til this day has not been fulfilled. Like I said,I did not finish my study. If we go to other parts of daniel and to revelation.we see where it fits together like a puzzle and by the way. The reason I call it a fifth kingdom, is the 4th kingdom, ends. And is reborn many years later. So is in essence a 5th kingdom. Even though it is still the 4th.. many people call them rome 1 and rome 2 and yes. I can discuss rationally. Can you explain your view in more detail? |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 18, 2022 11:03:03 GMT -8
The problem is when you look at the 4th kingdom. Especially in daniel 7, You see parts of that kingdom that til this day has not been fulfilled. Like I said,I did not finish my study. If we go to other parts of daniel and to revelation.we see where it fits together like a puzzle and by the way. The reason I call it a fifth kingdom, is the 4th kingdom, ends. And is reborn many years later. So is in essence a 5th kingdom. Even though it is still the 4th.. many people call them rome 1 and rome 2 and yes. I can discuss rationally. Can you explain your view in more detail? In daniel chapter 7 we have a description of the final beast. things which have not happened. yet. We see the same detailed given in rev.. 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.1. 7 heads and ten horns with ten crowns (kingdoms) 2. had like a leopard with feet of a bear, a and mouth of a lion (a vision of the first three beasts, who he had devoured. 3. Empowered by satan himself 4. one of its heads had a mortal wound which was healed. (the 4th beast rome had died, and now it is reborn) 5. world bows down to him and are in awe of his great power (who is able to overthrow him) 6. Spoke pompous words (blasphemies) 7. given power for 42 months (3 1/2 years) 8. Blasphemes God and his temple (abomination of desolation) 8. given power to make war with saints and overcome them 9. Given power over every tribe, every tongue, ever nation (3 ways to say his authority is given over EVERY nation on earth) No kingdom up to this day has held this much power. Here. like in daniel 7 we see the kingdom which was dead. and now risen again, taking power to rule over every person on earth.. and this will be the kingdom who is in power when christ returns. and christs destroys it |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 0:34:37 GMT -8
Can you explain your view in more detail? In daniel chapter 7 we have a description of the final beast. things which have not happened. yet. We see the same detailed given in rev.. 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.1. 7 heads and ten horns with ten crowns (kingdoms) 2. had like a leopard with feet of a bear, a and mouth of a lion (a vision of the first three beasts, who he had devoured. 3. Empowered by satan himself 4. one of its heads had a mortal wound which was healed. (the 4th beast rome had died, and now it is reborn) 5. world bows down to him and are in awe of his great power (who is able to overthrow him) 6. Spoke pompous words (blasphemies) 7. given power for 42 months (3 1/2 years) 8. Blasphemes God and his temple (abomination of desolation) 8. given power to make war with saints and overcome them 9. Given power over every tribe, every tongue, ever nation (3 ways to say his authority is given over EVERY nation on earth) No kingdom up to this day has held this much power. Here. like in daniel 7 we see the kingdom which was dead. and now risen again, taking power to rule over every person on earth.. and this will be the kingdom who is in power when christ returns. and christs destroys it In my opinion this entity will be a world government formed through the UN after the next World War. I used to hold to the Hal Lindsey view but I think a Roman anti christ unlikely. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 4:56:12 GMT -8
In daniel chapter 7 we have a description of the final beast. things which have not happened. yet. We see the same detailed given in rev.. 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.1. 7 heads and ten horns with ten crowns (kingdoms) 2. had like a leopard with feet of a bear, a and mouth of a lion (a vision of the first three beasts, who he had devoured. 3. Empowered by satan himself 4. one of its heads had a mortal wound which was healed. (the 4th beast rome had died, and now it is reborn) 5. world bows down to him and are in awe of his great power (who is able to overthrow him) 6. Spoke pompous words (blasphemies) 7. given power for 42 months (3 1/2 years) 8. Blasphemes God and his temple (abomination of desolation) 8. given power to make war with saints and overcome them 9. Given power over every tribe, every tongue, ever nation (3 ways to say his authority is given over EVERY nation on earth) No kingdom up to this day has held this much power. Here. like in daniel 7 we see the kingdom which was dead. and now risen again, taking power to rule over every person on earth.. and this will be the kingdom who is in power when christ returns. and christs destroys it In my opinion this entity will be a world government formed through the UN after the next World War. I used to hold to the Hal Lindsey view but I think a Roman anti christ unlikely. I would say the next world war will be the great tribulation. I believe the leader will come out of Europe through a loosely held European union who is taken over by a charismatic leader who gains control of the whole world as spoken. That at the end of that war. something so great is launched that it would creat an extinction event (no life would be spared as Jesus said) and that at that very moment, Christ returns.. As for Hal lindsey. I never studied what he wrote so I can not tell you what he believed |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 6:31:52 GMT -8
In my opinion this entity will be a world government formed through the UN after the next World War. I used to hold to the Hal Lindsey view but I think a Roman anti christ unlikely. I would say the next world war will be the great tribulation. I believe the leader will come out of Europe through a loosely held European union who is taken over by a charismatic leader who gains control of the whole world as spoken. That at the end of that war. something so great is launched that it would creat an extinction event (no life would be spared as Jesus said) and that at that very moment, Christ returns.. As for Hal lindsey. I never studied what he wrote so I can not tell you what he believed I believe Hal was the first author to write about the Western European antichrist theory. The Bible predicts a war that will kill a 3rd in Rev 9. This is in addition to the 25% killed earlier by war, famine and disease in Rev 6.The tribulation will occur in between the two wars Rev 6. |
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