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Post by Bronson on May 4, 2023 12:30:59 GMT -8
I would like to add that God's purpose in humanity is clear as found in Acts 27. Act 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, Act 17:27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, It is the duty of man to seek God!!!!!! Which is contrary to what Calvinism teaches. God can be known, and wants to be known. He has made Himself known through his Son, Jesus, His Word, and His Creation. Yet people continue to deny it. For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.… Romans 1:21 -22In denying God, in a very real way we elevate ourselves to the status of a god, being able to declare what is and what isn’t truth. Sadly, this then sets truth as something that is abstract, subjective and not something that can be built upon. So, knowing that God desires to be known. we ought to desire to know Him. |
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Post by civic on May 4, 2023 17:09:02 GMT -8
You are absolutely correct. Spiritual babies don't understand everything they see nor hear. So there are levels to understanding that the Calvinist ignores in the discussion. Which is observable in the Gospel message. It gets the attention to the hearer. The hearer MUST deal with the information they are presented. Paul even said that Satan had BLINDED THE MINDS of SOME...... again. Not all. So they would not even begin the journey to discovery. The GOSPEL LEADS ALL MEN...... ALL MEN.... Some further than others. Correct. I believe all means all. Some further than others and some faster than others. Depending upon his plan for them. Like sanctification: I am speaking in familiar human terms because of your natural limitations. For as you yielded your bodily members [and faculties] as servants to impurity and ever increasing lawlessness, so now yield your bodily members [and faculties] once for all as servants to righteousness (right being and doing) [which leads] to sanctification. Romans 6:19.Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” This passage very clearly indicates that God commands all people everywhere (the world, everyone) to repent, so it only follows that He desires for all people everywhere to repent. If He didn't then it wouldn't make sense for Him to command everyone to do so. God wants all people to be saved which is why Christ sacrificed Himself not just for our sins who are saved now, but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2). 1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. Yes all , everyone, all people, the whole world is all inclusive. |
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Post by duncan on May 5, 2023 14:07:35 GMT -8
What is the difference between the natural man and the carnal man; ie, I'm thinking that a natural man does not mind the things of the Spirit, neither does the carnal man mind the things of the Spirit. 1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
The natural and carnal both operate in the flesh but the carnal man is born again whereas the natural man is not. 1 Corinthians 3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? |
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Post by duncan on May 5, 2023 14:11:10 GMT -8
What is the difference between the natural man and the carnal man; ie, I'm thinking that a natural man does not mind the things of the Spirit, neither does the carnal man mind the things of the Spirit. 1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
The natural man and the carnal man have the same mind. Both fallen and unsaved. As one is born again, his mind is no longer carnal, but he is a babe in Christ. And because he is a babe in Christ, or others who should be more advanced but are not, Paul will treat them as babies. I think that is pretty obvious. |
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Post by civic on May 5, 2023 14:38:39 GMT -8
The natural and carnal both operate in the flesh but the carnal man is born again whereas the natural man is not. 1 Corinthians 3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? Its not about what you or I think its a matter of what the bible actually says. Here Paul addresses his Brothers/Sisters and calls them infants in Christ who are " carnal, fleshly, worldly " 1 Corinthians 3:1 NIV Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. King James Bible And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. New King James Version And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. New American Standard Bible And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. |
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Post by Bronson on May 5, 2023 15:32:34 GMT -8
The theological concept of “already but not yet” holds that believers are actively taking part in the kingdom of God, although the kingdom will not reach its full expression until sometime in the future. We are “already” in the kingdom, but we do “not yet” see it in its glory.
“We eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory” Philippians 3:20-21
Ours is a triumphant hope!
Yet for now the battle goes on. Full deliverance awaits glorification. Victory here and now is only possible bit by bit as we mortify the deeds of the body through the power of the Holy Spirit: “Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry” Colossians 3:5.
“For if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live” Romans 8:13.
We are bound to be frustrated by our inability to experience holiness to the degree we desire. That is the inevitable experience of every true saint of God. Because of our flesh we can never in this life achieve the level of holiness to which we aspire. “We ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body” Romans 8:23. But that hope only further inflames our aspirations to holiness.
“Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. Everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure” 1 John 3:2–3.
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Post by duncan on May 5, 2023 18:49:27 GMT -8
Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? Its not about what you or I think its a matter of what the bible actually says. Here Paul addresses his Brothers/Sisters and calls them infants in Christ who are " carnal, fleshly, worldly " 1 Corinthians 3:1 NIV Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. King James Bible And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. New King James Version And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. New American Standard Bible And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. Well, I disagree. I don't see anywhere, where Paul calls a Christian carnal. He talks about treating them as such, to his disappointment. If I am wrong it won't be the first time.  |
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Post by civic on May 6, 2023 4:16:43 GMT -8
Its not about what you or I think its a matter of what the bible actually says. Here Paul addresses his Brothers/Sisters and calls them infants in Christ who are " carnal, fleshly, worldly " 1 Corinthians 3:1 NIV Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. King James Bible And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. New King James Version And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. New American Standard Bible And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. Well, I disagree. I don't see anywhere, where Paul calls a Christian carnal. He talks about treating them as such, to his disappointment. If I am wrong it won't be the first time. Can I ask you what Paul means, is saying to his brethren in 1 Corinthians 3:1 below ? 1 Cor 3:1- And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. |
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2023 6:02:45 GMT -8
Well, I disagree. I don't see anywhere, where Paul calls a Christian carnal. He talks about treating them as such, to his disappointment. If I am wrong it won't be the first time. Can I ask you what Paul means, is saying to his brethren in 1 Corinthians 3:1 below ? 1 Cor 3:1- And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. Sure. Thank you for the question. For me to know what Paul meant I have to look at the context. Without expanding too far, but looking at the immediate context, here is what I find. 1 corinthians 1:3 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people? 4 For when one person says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not ordinary people? Though I think the passage speaks for itself, here is what I think. He could not speak to them as spiritual, but only fleshly. As to infants in Christ. he gave milk because they were not able to chew solid food yet. I can hear a disappointment as he expected better. Them being "not yet able" And they are still acting fleshly. as he says here, For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people?And other things in the passage. like saying, I am of Paul, ect...Paul says, I could not speak to you as spiritual people. He gave them milk because they are not ready for solid food. They are still acting freshly. Paul obviously expects Christians to act spiritually, more mature. So, in other words, Paul is telling them to grow up and move on towards maturity. Do you agree? Im interested in your thoughts. Thank you |
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Post by civic on May 6, 2023 7:34:29 GMT -8
Can I ask you what Paul means, is saying to his brethren in 1 Corinthians 3:1 below ? 1 Cor 3:1- And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. Sure. Thank you for the question. For me to know what Paul meant I have to look at the context. Without expanding too far, but looking at the immediate context, here is what I find. 1 corinthians 1:3 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people? 4 For when one person says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not ordinary people? Though I think the passage speaks for itself, here is what I think. He could not speak to them as spiritual, but only fleshly. As to infants in Christ. he gave milk because they were not able to chew solid food yet. I can hear a disappointment as he expected better. Them being "not yet able" And they are still acting fleshly. as he says here, For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people?And other things in the passage. like saying, I am of Paul, ect...Paul says, I could not speak to you as spiritual people. He gave them milk because they are not ready for solid food. They are still acting freshly. Paul obviously expects Christians to act spiritually, more mature. So, in other words, Paul is telling them to grow up and move on towards maturity. Do you agree? Im interested in your thoughts. Thank you I agree with the above comments which is why he refers to those believers as " carnal" fleshly, worldly. |
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Post by praiseyeshua on May 6, 2023 8:53:24 GMT -8
The natural and carnal both operate in the flesh but the carnal man is born again whereas the natural man is not. 1 Corinthians 3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? You are contradicting the Scriptures. Paul said clearly they were babies in Christ. I suppose you were born again knowing everything? |
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Post by praiseyeshua on May 6, 2023 8:56:53 GMT -8
Sure. Thank you for the question. For me to know what Paul meant I have to look at the context. Without expanding too far, but looking at the immediate context, here is what I find. 1 corinthians 1:3 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people? 4 For when one person says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not ordinary people? Though I think the passage speaks for itself, here is what I think. He could not speak to them as spiritual, but only fleshly. As to infants in Christ. he gave milk because they were not able to chew solid food yet. I can hear a disappointment as he expected better. Them being "not yet able" And they are still acting fleshly. as he says here, For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people?And other things in the passage. like saying, I am of Paul, ect...Paul says, I could not speak to you as spiritual people. He gave them milk because they are not ready for solid food. They are still acting freshly. Paul obviously expects Christians to act spiritually, more mature. So, in other words, Paul is telling them to grow up and move on towards maturity. Do you agree? Im interested in your thoughts. Thank you I agree with the above comments which is why he refers to those believers as " carnal" fleshly, worldly. Because they needed milk. Unlearned. Unskilled. Lacking experience and understanding. Again. The desire to sever the flesh from the Spirit is a task left to God. One day, He will do such. Till then they BOTH make up the whole. We need to treat them as a whole in our theology. |
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Post by civic on May 6, 2023 9:01:37 GMT -8
I agree with the above comments which is why he refers to those believers as " carnal" fleshly, worldly. Because they needed milk. Unlearned. Unskilled. Lacking experience and understanding. Again. The desire to sever the flesh from the Spirit is a task left to God. One day, He will do such. Till then they BOTH make up the whole. We need to treat them as a whole in our theology. Ditto brother . |
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2023 10:19:38 GMT -8
Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? You are contradicting the Scriptures. Paul said clearly they were babies in Christ. I suppose you were born again knowing everything? Are you having a hard time following? I said they were babies in Christ. Acting carnally, not carnal. |
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2023 10:22:28 GMT -8
Are you serious? You believe there is such a thing as a carnal Christian? I suppose you were born again knowing everything? It's nice to meet you too. |
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