netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on May 7, 2023 5:30:07 GMT -8
That the will of God, where it is expressed in the Word of God, ought to govern every Christian, every true believer will admit. But the Word of God is wiser than men; never does it set the believer under the law since the death of Christ. It was a “schoolmaster” until the Cross (schoolmaster showed the way to Christ but could not deliver - Gal 3:24, 25, they were just “forgiven” by the sacrificial ordinance—NC). The Word speaks of commandments, and they are not painful to the growing believer (1Jo 5:3). But it never places him under the law; that Word comes from a God who knows the heart of man, and who knows what is necessary for him and what is injurious to him or impossible. The law is to convince him of sin.
The Father knows, and the man who is taught of the Spirit knows and is familiar with his own heart and knows that the law—all law—is a ministry of death and condemnation; and that it could not be anything else. He knows that as man is set, in any degree whatever under a law, you must either condemn him or enfeeble the obligation of the law. In a word, men do not understand the mind of God about the law. They speak vaguely of a notion of obligation to law, of being bound by the law. But if they are bound by the law, assuredly even Christians have not kept it in fact, though their nature loves it (it being God’s Word—NC), and love is an accomplishing of it.
Now, if they have not kept the law (since they have not kept the law—NC), and yet are bound by it, they are condemned; the law drives them even as Christians (it wasn’t until 30 years after Christ’s resurrection before they realized the law is not compatible with the Gospel of Christ—NC), from the presence of God. If you are bound by the law, and have failed in your obligation—which is just the truth, either the obligation must be weakened and destroyed (in the case of Christ sacrifice—NC), or you must perish. The only obligation which the law knows is to keep it or be lost—nothing else. The law knows nothing of grace, and it ought to know nothing of it. You, believer, have not kept the law (requires a sinless nature, obedience without sin in the soul—NC). Are you under the obligation of doing so? In order to escape, the obligation must be blotted out. Such is the inconsistent conclusion of those who place the believer in subjection to the law!
Faith in God alone maintains the authority of the law (keeps it nullified for believers in Christ—NC)—and for this reason: I own myself lost if I am under law, and I see that Christ has undergone its curse, and has placed me in a new position which reunites two things; perfect righteousness before God, because it is the righteousness of God, accomplished in Christ; and life, the participation of the divine nature (2Pe 1:4), according to the power of resurrection.
I cannot have two husbands, the two obligations, at the same time—the law and Christ (law could only “bring us unto Christ” but not deliver - Gal 3:24—NC). In Christ I am dead to the law, and live unto God. Now the law has authority, and binds as long as we live; but having died (crucified with Christ) I am delivered from the law, in order that I should belong to another—such is the positive language of the Word—to Him that is raised from the dead, that I should bring forth fruit unto God. If you are bound by the law, the law will maintain its authority and its obligation with rigor; it ought to do this, and it will condemn you as sure as you commit sin (the value of the law was to inform man of his sin - Jhn 15:22, 24; 9:41, and what to do about it; this is true love—NC).
If I have died with Christ, the law has no more authority over me, for it does not pass over that barrier. I belong to Another. I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. “I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me” (Gal 2:20). He was under the law while He lived here; but risen, He is no longer so. Now the commandments, whether we say of God or of Christ, have another character for the Christian.
All that Christ has said, all the His apostles have said and all the things in which the OT enlightens us upon His will, direct and govern the life that we already possess and have the authority of the Word of God, that is of God Himself over the soul. I have the life; the words of Christ, His commandments (love as I have loved you—NC) are the expression of this life in Him, its fruits in all respects according to the perfection and the will of God Himself, and the direction of this life in me.
I walk, following then according to the thoughts and intents of my Father and His blessed will; it is the law of liberty (God’s Word, esp. the Gospel of Christ—NC), because I possess already the life. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (Ro 8:2). If people really felt what the law is, they would know that upon that ground they are lost, because the law has not lost its strength (1Co 15:56), and it is always and everywhere a ministry of condemnation and death (Though the law obeyed, yet its adherers are still unchanged sinners; we’re to remember that forgiveness came from the sacrificial ordinances, and not from the obedience—NC). Not that we would make such a thing of reproach (because “all have sinned”—NC); for many dear souls were found under the law (Jews—NC)—not, of course, according to God’s will, but through their own want of faith, and through bad teaching (the Law is no more—NC).
We cannot be too watchful for our growth; we are sanctified unto obedience (sanctification sets apart and obedience shows it—NC). The independence of the will is the principle of sin; but the law is not the means of arriving at holiness (forgiveness only is not holiness – Num 15:25, which requires the Son and Spirit—NC). It does not give a new will, nor strength when we have one. Those who are on the principle of the works of the law (which are good but not perfectly obeyed—NC) are still “under the curse” (Gal 3:10). It is to ignore what the heart of man is, to suppose that he can be under a law coming from God and live (laws are only to show condemnation, which answers to why they are for the “unholy” - 1Ti 1:9; the Jew was “forgiven” only by the sacrificial ordinance, and obedience shows gratitude and love—NC).
The Word of God is clear as day that, unless one be condemned, there is no such thing as having to do with the law without weakening its obligation, and it penalties. Grace alone maintains it authority. If I place myself under a mixture of law and grace, I ought to beseech God (like the people with Moses) to hide from me His glory as an unbearable thing; whereas, when I see that glory in the face of the glorified Lord Jesus, by the Spirit’s ministry, I can contemplate this glory with unveiled face, and be “changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” (2Co 3:18).
—J N Darby
MJS devotional excerpt for May 6
“The marvel of divine grace is that not only has everything according to the heart of God been secured for me through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, but that I, a child of Adam, should be, not only in peace with God where I was under His judgment, but that I am transferred from Adam to Christ, and I am to have Christ formed in me now.
“I am born of God—of new and divine origin—a new creation to be here on earth now where I was a child of Adam, in the grace and beauty of Christ, led by His own power to stand for Him; daily more and more transformed into the same image from glory to glory even as by the Spirit of the Lord’ (2 Cor. 3:18).
“I used to study this passage and that passage to obtain guidance and light. I see now that if I were really near Him beholding His glory (2 Cor. 3:18), I should be transformed, should come from Him so impressed with Himself that His interests would, as it were, naturally control me.” -James Butler Stoney (1814-1897) The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" -MJS <>< |
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Post by Redeemed on May 7, 2023 5:37:25 GMT -8
Good study.
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on May 8, 2023 4:25:40 GMT -8
Hi! Thanks for the encouraging reply and God bless! |
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Post by charismaticlady on Jul 31, 2023 0:16:58 GMT -8
That the will of God, where it is expressed in the Word of God, ought to govern every Christian, every true believer will admit. But the Word of God is wiser than men; never does it set the believer under the law since the death of Christ. It was a “schoolmaster” until the Cross (schoolmaster showed the way to Christ but could not deliver - Gal 3:24, 25, they were just “forgiven” by the sacrificial ordinance—NC). The Word speaks of commandments, and they are not painful to the growing believer (1Jo 5:3). But it never places him under the law; that Word comes from a God who knows the heart of man, and who knows what is necessary for him and what is injurious to him or impossible. The law is to convince him of sin.
The Father knows, and the man who is taught of the Spirit knows and is familiar with his own heart and knows that the law—all law—is a ministry of death and condemnation; and that it could not be anything else. He knows that as man is set, in any degree whatever under a law, you must either condemn him or enfeeble the obligation of the law. In a word, men do not understand the mind of God about the law. They speak vaguely of a notion of obligation to law, of being bound by the law. But if they are bound by the law, assuredly even Christians have not kept it in fact, though their nature loves it (it being God’s Word—NC), and love is an accomplishing of it.
Now, if they have not kept the law (since they have not kept the law—NC), and yet are bound by it, they are condemned; the law drives them even as Christians (it wasn’t until 30 years after Christ’s resurrection before they realized the law is not compatible with the Gospel of Christ—NC), from the presence of God. If you are bound by the law, and have failed in your obligation—which is just the truth, either the obligation must be weakened and destroyed (in the case of Christ sacrifice—NC), or you must perish. The only obligation which the law knows is to keep it or be lost—nothing else. The law knows nothing of grace, and it ought to know nothing of it. You, believer, have not kept the law (requires a sinless nature, obedience without sin in the soul—NC). Are you under the obligation of doing so? In order to escape, the obligation must be blotted out. Such is the inconsistent conclusion of those who place the believer in subjection to the law!
Faith in God alone maintains the authority of the law (keeps it nullified for believers in Christ—NC)—and for this reason: I own myself lost if I am under law, and I see that Christ has undergone its curse, and has placed me in a new position which reunites two things; perfect righteousness before God, because it is the righteousness of God, accomplished in Christ; and life, the participation of the divine nature (2Pe 1:4), according to the power of resurrection.
I cannot have two husbands, the two obligations, at the same time—the law and Christ (law could only “bring us unto Christ” but not deliver - Gal 3:24—NC). In Christ I am dead to the law, and live unto God. Now the law has authority, and binds as long as we live; but having died (crucified with Christ) I am delivered from the law, in order that I should belong to another—such is the positive language of the Word—to Him that is raised from the dead, that I should bring forth fruit unto God. If you are bound by the law, the law will maintain its authority and its obligation with rigor; it ought to do this, and it will condemn you as sure as you commit sin (the value of the law was to inform man of his sin - Jhn 15:22, 24; 9:41, and what to do about it; this is true love—NC).
If I have died with Christ, the law has no more authority over me, for it does not pass over that barrier. I belong to Another. I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. “I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me” (Gal 2:20). He was under the law while He lived here; but risen, He is no longer so. Now the commandments, whether we say of God or of Christ, have another character for the Christian.
All that Christ has said, all the His apostles have said and all the things in which the OT enlightens us upon His will, direct and govern the life that we already possess and have the authority of the Word of God, that is of God Himself over the soul. I have the life; the words of Christ, His commandments (love as I have loved you—NC) are the expression of this life in Him, its fruits in all respects according to the perfection and the will of God Himself, and the direction of this life in me.
I walk, following then according to the thoughts and intents of my Father and His blessed will; it is the law of liberty (God’s Word, esp. the Gospel of Christ—NC), because I possess already the life. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (Ro 8:2). If people really felt what the law is, they would know that upon that ground they are lost, because the law has not lost its strength (1Co 15:56), and it is always and everywhere a ministry of condemnation and death (Though the law obeyed, yet its adherers are still unchanged sinners; we’re to remember that forgiveness came from the sacrificial ordinances, and not from the obedience—NC). Not that we would make such a thing of reproach (because “all have sinned”—NC); for many dear souls were found under the law (Jews—NC)—not, of course, according to God’s will, but through their own want of faith, and through bad teaching (the Law is no more—NC).
We cannot be too watchful for our growth; we are sanctified unto obedience (sanctification sets apart and obedience shows it—NC). The independence of the will is the principle of sin; but the law is not the means of arriving at holiness (forgiveness only is not holiness – Num 15:25, which requires the Son and Spirit—NC). It does not give a new will, nor strength when we have one. Those who are on the principle of the works of the law (which are good but not perfectly obeyed—NC) are still “under the curse” (Gal 3:10). It is to ignore what the heart of man is, to suppose that he can be under a law coming from God and live (laws are only to show condemnation, which answers to why they are for the “unholy” - 1Ti 1:9; the Jew was “forgiven” only by the sacrificial ordinance, and obedience shows gratitude and love—NC).
The Word of God is clear as day that, unless one be condemned, there is no such thing as having to do with the law without weakening its obligation, and it penalties. Grace alone maintains it authority. If I place myself under a mixture of law and grace, I ought to beseech God (like the people with Moses) to hide from me His glory as an unbearable thing; whereas, when I see that glory in the face of the glorified Lord Jesus, by the Spirit’s ministry, I can contemplate this glory with unveiled face, and be “changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” (2Co 3:18).
—J N Darby
MJS devotional excerpt for May 6
“The marvel of divine grace is that not only has everything according to the heart of God been secured for me through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, but that I, a child of Adam, should be, not only in peace with God where I was under His judgment, but that I am transferred from Adam to Christ, and I am to have Christ formed in me now.
“I am born of God—of new and divine origin—a new creation to be here on earth now where I was a child of Adam, in the grace and beauty of Christ, led by His own power to stand for Him; daily more and more transformed into the same image from glory to glory even as by the Spirit of the Lord’ (2 Cor. 3:18).
“I used to study this passage and that passage to obtain guidance and light. I see now that if I were really near Him beholding His glory (2 Cor. 3:18), I should be transformed, should come from Him so impressed with Himself that His interests would, as it were, naturally control me.” -James Butler Stoney (1814-1897) You said: The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" -MJS <><
Part of the last line: "nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" It is both. But it is natural as breathing. Jesus took away the source of our sin, not only cleansing the sin nature into a pure human nature that Adam had before he fell into sin, but empowered by the Spirit of life in Christ. The indwelling Spirit is the seed of the Father preventing us from lawless sin. 1 John 3:9. Jesus also took away Satan's influence on us. 1 John 3:8. |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Jul 31, 2023 3:13:32 GMT -8
Part of the last line: "nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" It is both. But it is natural as breathing. Jesus took away the source of our sin, not only cleansing the sin nature into a pure human nature that Adam had before he fell into sin, but empowered by the Spirit of life in Christ. The indwelling Spirit is the seed of the Father preventing us from lawless sin. 1 John 3:9. Jesus also took away Satan's influence on us. 1 John 3:8. Hi, and appreciated your reply! We can imitate and live like Christ lived, but it requires Him to live His life in the believer because we can't live His life, He must live it in us. Hence "Christ liveth in me" (Gal 2:20). I cannot live anyone's life but my own, thus only Christ can live His own life--and that in us! Like the glove will do what the Hand does, and not the hand will do what the glove does because the glove is lifeless without the Hand; and all is done through the Holy Spirit in us using the "Life" of Christ (Col 3:4). Concerning the "source of our sin" it yet abides in us, for continued testing. When Scripture says He "takes away sin," it means He takes away the guilt and "dominion" of sin (Ro 6:12, 14), but not the sin source or nature ("old man" - Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). Now for the believer, it is not human nature (which is the old man, the sin nature or "the flesh," but the Lord Jesus in us, along with the old man, which we can't get rid of, just its affects. There's nothing that can be done with the sin nature because "Because the carnal mind (flesh) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7). All that can be done with the sin nature is "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them (sinners) in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (believers) into my barn" (Mat 13:30). We will continue to sin, but now it's no longer our desire or is not "willful" (Heb 10:26; Num 15:28, 30). The sins of a believer continue to become more in the way of impulse-sin, e.g. envy, jealousy, wrathfulness, et., and not intentional. When a believer sins, the Spirit convicts until confession is achieved! God bless! |
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Post by civic on Jul 31, 2023 6:29:06 GMT -8
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Post by charismaticlady on Jul 31, 2023 10:24:23 GMT -8
Part of the last line: "nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" It is both. But it is natural as breathing. Jesus took away the source of our sin, not only cleansing the sin nature into a pure human nature that Adam had before he fell into sin, but empowered by the Spirit of life in Christ. The indwelling Spirit is the seed of the Father preventing us from lawless sin. 1 John 3:9. Jesus also took away Satan's influence on us. 1 John 3:8. Hi, and appreciated your reply! We can imitate and live like Christ lived, but it requires Him to live His life in the believer because we can't live His life, He must live it in us. Hence "Christ liveth in me" (Gal 2:20). I cannot live anyone's life but my own, thus only Christ can live His own life--and that in us! Like the glove will do what the Hand does, and not the hand will do what the glove does because the glove is lifeless without the Hand; and all is done through the Holy Spirit in us using the "Life" of Christ (Col 3:4). Concerning the "source of our sin" it yet abides in us, for continued testing. When Scripture says He "takes away sin," it means He takes away the guilt and "dominion" of sin (Ro 6:12, 14), but not the sin source or nature ("old man" - Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). Now for the believer, it is not human nature (which is the old man, the sin nature or "the flesh," but the Lord Jesus in us, along with the old man, which we can't get rid of, just its affects. There's nothing that can be done with the sin nature because "Because the carnal mind (flesh) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7). All that can be done with the sin nature is "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them (sinners) in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (believers) into my barn" (Mat 13:30). We will continue to sin, but now it's no longer our desire or is not "willful" (Heb 10:26; Num 15:28, 30). The sins of a believer continue to become more in the way of impulse-sin, e.g. envy, jealousy, wrathfulness, et., and not intentional. When a believer sins, the Spirit convicts until confession is achieved! God bless! The SIN in our nature is directly linked to Adam's sin and his giving his dominion over to Satan. That is one of the reasons Jesus came to die on the cross. Not to take away our guilt and condemnation as is taught today, but to DESTROY the works of the devil against God. 1 John 3:8-9. " 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
That LAWLESS SIN in our nature is what Jesus took away. SIN UNTO DEATH is why we MUST BE BORN AGAIN. This chapter is referring specifically to sins unto death - lawlessness. When born again of the Spirit God's laws are written on our heart and lawlessness is taken out of us. (I literally felt a heaviness leave my body the night I was filled with the Spirit.) A born again Christian has absolutely no desire to murder, lie, steal, commit adultery, be disrespectful to parents or covet the things of this world. There is absolutely no struggle to be clean in the area of God's laws. 1 John 3:24 "Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."
Now concerning the sins you were talking about. I agree to a degree. There IS another type of sin that a Christian is still able to commit. The degree I don't agree with you on is the sins you chose as examples (envy, jealousy, wrathfulness). Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Sins not unto death are immature fruit of the Spirit. Here we must go to John 15:1-4. “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch IN Me that does not bear fruit He takes away (Matthew 7:19-23 below); and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. (Cleansed from sin unto death) 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Matthew 7:19-23 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Peter was very keen on developing the fruit of the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:5-11.
"5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Jul 31, 2023 12:29:16 GMT -8
Hi Brother, and thanks for being persistent with me. I wasn't quite ready but I'm caught up now and will be joining that site. Thanks a lot, and God bless! |
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Jul 31, 2023 13:11:32 GMT -8
Not to take away our guilt and condemnation as is taught today, but to DESTROY the works of the devil against God.
That LAWLESS SIN in our nature is what Jesus took away.
I believe the work of the devil is to cause others to want to live in sin (sinful pleasures), thus keeping them under the curse and judgement; which will be the case for the majority of mankind (Mt 7:13, 14). The "old man" (lawless nature) remains in the believer, so God can show that He can keep believers from its curse; and I believe this is what actually destroys the devil's works. The continuation of the old man dwelling within (Ro 7:17, 20) is to continue to manifest God's glory and work of salvation; or He would have removed the sin nature at rebirth (old man). If the sin nature were gone we would never sin, but that is not the case. The point is that through the new nature we no longer sin "willfully" (Heb 10:26), and this is where He wants us. |
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Post by charismaticlady on Jul 31, 2023 14:30:57 GMT -8
Not to take away our guilt and condemnation as is taught today, but to DESTROY the works of the devil against God.
That LAWLESS SIN in our nature is what Jesus took away.
I believe the work of the devil is to cause others to want to live in sin (sinful pleasures), thus keeping them under the curse and judgement; which will be the case for the majority of mankind (Mt 7:13, 14). The "old man" (lawless nature) remains in the believer, so God can show that He can keep believers from its curse; and I believe this is what actually destroys the devil's works. The continuation of the old man dwelling within (Ro 7:17, 20) is to continue to manifest God's glory and work of salvation; or He would have removed the sin nature at rebirth (old man). If the sin nature were gone we would never sin, but that is not the case. The point is that through the new nature we no longer sin "willfully" (Heb 10:26), and this is where He wants us. He hates the Church. That is why the Church has so many "doctrines of demons." For instance, your belief that Satan is still influencing us through his sin nature in us is just one of those lies. NO! We are not sinners. We are children of God.
Romans 7:17, 20 are those who are STILL in the flesh. But they are OT Jews under the law that had to keep God's law with a sin nature; NOT freed from sin by Jesus! Why are you not reading Romans 7 in context? Go back a few verses and see that a Christian is NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit like Romans 8:9. Here is Romans 7:5-6 " 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Chapter 7:14-25 describes what it was like under the law WITH a sin nature. You can not use any scripture in that passage to apply to us. They don't. Jesus freed us from the sin in our nature. Romans 8:2; 9
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Jul 31, 2023 19:26:38 GMT -8
Chapter 7:14-25 describes what it was like under the law WITH a sin nature. You can not use any scripture in that passage to apply to us. They don't. Jesus freed us from the sin in our nature. Romans 8:2; 9
The fact that the believer still possess the old man is throughout the NT, and thus to extensive to rationally debate otherwise! |
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Post by charismaticlady on Aug 1, 2023 11:37:32 GMT -8
Chapter 7:14-25 describes what it was like under the law WITH a sin nature. You can not use any scripture in that passage to apply to us. They don't. Jesus freed us from the sin in our nature. Romans 8:2; 9
The fact that the believer still possess the old man is throughout the NT, and thus to extensive to rationally debate otherwise! Why are you making statements in opposition to Scripture, and with not a trace of Scripture of your own? The Old man was crucified and was resurrected. It died. WE ARE FREED FROM SIN. WE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES OF SIN!
How can you oppose the obvious.
Romans 6:5-7 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our OLD MAN was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
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Post by dizerner2 on Aug 1, 2023 13:27:26 GMT -8
Chapter 7:14-25 describes what it was like under the law WITH a sin nature. You can not use any scripture in that passage to apply to us. They don't. Jesus freed us from the sin in our nature. Romans 8:2; 9
The fact that the believer still possess the old man is throughout the NT, and thus to extensive to rationally debate otherwise!
Yes! No good thing in our flesh.
Otherwise what need to "reckon it dead" and to "put off the old man."
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Post by dizerner2 on Aug 1, 2023 13:29:37 GMT -8
You really don't understand perfection.
The slightest moral imperfection is a sin.
Otherwise someone gets puffed up and deluded with self-righteous feelings.
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netchaplain
Full Member
The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, but Christ living His life in us!
Posts: 206
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Post by netchaplain on Aug 1, 2023 14:48:13 GMT -8
the Old man was crucified and was resurrected. It died. WE ARE FREED FROM SIN. WE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES OF SIN!
How can you oppose the obvious.
Romans 6:5-7 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our OLD MAN was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
We just have a different understanding about "the flesh." When the NT uses the word flesh it is almost always in reference to the sin nature. Another phrase for the sin nature is "the carnal mind," which means sinful thinking as in the "old man," as one who is yet to be reborn, i.e. "sinner." Thus Paul said, "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7). The old man is the carnal mind, which can never be "subject to the law of God," so it can only be crucified on the Cross until the Lord Jesus returns; and crucification only annuls the curse and guilt of it, not its death. That would mean we no longer sin, which cannot be so. The "body of sin" is the old man and its "members," like a body (Rom 6:6; Col 3:5). Its "destruction" only involves its ability to cause us to want to sin, which it can no longer do to the believer, being reborn (Rom 6:12, 14); but there is no antihalation or removal of the old man. The point is that we will "not serve sin" (Ro 6:6), which means willfully commit sin; and now it's no longer willful, but we still sin. We are just going to continue to disagree on this issue. God bless! |
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