fred
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Post by fred on Aug 14, 2022 10:00:05 GMT -8
A Christian may want to use the argument with a Unitarian that since the Bible teaches the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer proves He is God. However, there are some Unitarians who deny the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer. 1. The Way International affirms the following: Many professing Christians have been taught to “praise Jesus.” However, the Bible does not teach that Jesus Christ is to be praised or thanked or addressed in prayer. thewayinternational.com/praising-god-not-jesus/2. The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm the following in The Watchtower: Should Christians pray to Jesus Christ? No. (Do You Remember?, June 15, 2015, page 32) wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015450There are other Unitarians who affirm the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer. 1. From biblicalunitarian: Although some have contended that the Lord in the above verse is God, it is more logical that it refers to Jesus. He was the one who chose Judas, and he was addressed as “Lord” by all the apostles over and over in the New Testament. www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/can-we-pray-to-jesus-christ 2. From a Christadelphian web site: In Acts 1:24-26, we read that the apostles prayed to the Lord to guide their choice of the apostle to replace Judas Iscariot. Who was the Lord to whom they prayed? In the New Testament the title Lord (Gk. kurios) is applied to God and to Jesus, depending on the context. Since Jesus chose all the other apostles (John 6:70), we can reasonably assume that he chose the apostle to replace Judas. www.tidings.org/wp/?p=2495 To those Unitarians who deny the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer, all it would take is one example from the Bible which teaches this truth. To those Unitarians who affirm the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer, all it would take is demonstrating from the Bible that either (1) only God is the proper recipient of prayer; and/or (2) when the Lord Jesus is prayed to it is done in reference to Him being God. |
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Post by civic on Aug 14, 2022 11:52:35 GMT -8
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fred
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Posts: 36
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Post by fred on Aug 14, 2022 13:07:25 GMT -8
good post fred , thanks ! I have dealt with both positions in the past, but what I would be interested in seeing is a debate between the two groups. That is, a Unitarian who denies the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer against a Unitarian who affirms the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer. If you, or others, know of any such debate/discussion I'd be interested in knowing about it. Thanks. Fred |
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Post by civic on Aug 14, 2022 13:51:45 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any such debate but I can look on youtube and see. We do not have any unitarians here as far as I know.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 17:15:36 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any such debate but I can look on youtube and see. We do not have any unitarians here as far as I know. In my experience Unitarians who do not believe in Jesus diety do not make good discussion partners. I`ve yet to meet one who didn`t say things about Jesus that I find offensive.Irreverent is a good way to describe it. |
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Post by civic on Aug 17, 2022 3:49:13 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any such debate but I can look on youtube and see. We do not have any unitarians here as far as I know. In my experience Unitarians who do not believe in Jesus diety do not make good discussion partners. I`ve yet to meet one who didn`t say things about Jesus that I find offensive.Irreverent is a good way to describe it. You are right I have only seen a couple in the past 20 years that were able to have a decent discussion with online. But they are no longer on that forum posting. This was well over 10 years ago that I use to debate them on CARM. I was able to get Robert Bowman Jr who wrote books and articles on cults and interact with a few of those unitarians. I saved some of those interactions in a word.doc. hope this helps !!! |
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101G
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The Binding Covenant
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Post by 101G on Aug 17, 2022 12:42:10 GMT -8
Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."
PICJAG, 101G.
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 19, 2022 16:06:59 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any such debate but I can look on youtube and see. We do not have any unitarians here as far as I know. Nonadorantism (from Latin adoro or adoratio ≈ worship) is a Christological position, that denied the validity of addressing Jesus in prayer. Nonadorantist theology was especially common in the Unitarian movement in the 16th century, and particularly represented by Ferenc Dávid and Jacob Palaeologus. Also James Freeman represented nonadorantist positions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonadorantism |
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Post by civic on Aug 19, 2022 16:21:53 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any such debate but I can look on youtube and see. We do not have any unitarians here as far as I know. Nonadorantism (from Latin adoro or adoratio ≈ worship) is a Christological position, that denied the validity of addressing Jesus in prayer. Nonadorantist theology was especially common in the Unitarian movement in the 16th century, and particularly represented by Ferenc Dávid and Jacob Palaeologus. Also James Freeman represented nonadorantist positions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NonadorantismThanks for the info brother I’ll look into it . |
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Post by evensteven on Aug 28, 2022 13:49:41 GMT -8
A Christian may want to use the argument with a Unitarian that since the Bible teaches the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer proves He is God. However, there are some Unitarians who deny the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer. 1. The Way International affirms the following: Many professing Christians have been taught to “praise Jesus.” However, the Bible does not teach that Jesus Christ is to be praised or thanked or addressed in prayer. thewayinternational.com/praising-god-not-jesus/2. The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm the following in The Watchtower: Should Christians pray to Jesus Christ? No. (Do You Remember?, June 15, 2015, page 32) wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015450There are other Unitarians who affirm the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer. 1. From biblicalunitarian: Although some have contended that the Lord in the above verse is God, it is more logical that it refers to Jesus. He was the one who chose Judas, and he was addressed as “Lord” by all the apostles over and over in the New Testament. www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/can-we-pray-to-jesus-christ 2. From a Christadelphian web site: In Acts 1:24-26, we read that the apostles prayed to the Lord to guide their choice of the apostle to replace Judas Iscariot. Who was the Lord to whom they prayed? In the New Testament the title Lord (Gk. kurios) is applied to God and to Jesus, depending on the context. Since Jesus chose all the other apostles (John 6:70), we can reasonably assume that he chose the apostle to replace Judas. www.tidings.org/wp/?p=2495 To those Unitarians who deny the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer, all it would take is one example from the Bible which teaches this truth. To those Unitarians who affirm the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer, all it would take is demonstrating from the Bible that either (1) only God is the proper recipient of prayer; and/or (2) when the Lord Jesus is prayed to it is done in reference to Him being God. |
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Post by Theophilus on Aug 28, 2022 14:09:33 GMT -8
Are we talking about Unitarian Universalism here? Are they still alive and well? I thought they had virtually ceased to exist as a coherent theological system.
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Post by evensteven on Aug 28, 2022 14:14:05 GMT -8
In response to Fred's last paragraph from the OP (opening post) ...
I have gone after (attacked) individuals from other segments of Christianity with the intent to correct them.
What I discovered is that people usually have good reasons for what they believe. Usually ending in an impasse.
My new approach is to use a respectful approach that involves learning where they are coming from.
This interaction builds bridges instead of walls.
steve
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Post by Redeemed on Aug 28, 2022 15:20:11 GMT -8
In response to Fred's last paragraph from the OP (opening post) ... I have gone after (attacked) individuals from other segments of Christianity with the intent to correct them. What I discovered is that people usually have good reasons for what they believe. Usually ending in an impasse. My new approach is to use a respectful approach that involves learning where they are coming from. This interaction builds bridges instead of walls. steve Sounds like the right approach to me Steve. Even if people don't want to hear it at least you know you're doing the right thing. I call arguing and animosity towards other people giving Jesus a black eye. Making him look bad. After all we're ambassadors for Christ. And we want people to see something different about us then what they see in the rest of the world. |
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Post by evensteven on Aug 29, 2022 2:58:04 GMT -8
In response to Fred's last paragraph from the OP (opening post) ... I have gone after (attacked) individuals from other segments of Christianity with the intent to correct them. What I discovered is that people usually have good reasons for what they believe. Usually ending in an impasse. My new approach is to use a respectful approach that involves learning where they are coming from. This interaction builds bridges instead of walls. steve Sounds like the right approach to me Steve. Even if people don't want to hear it at least you know you're doing the right thing. I call arguing and animosity towards other people giving Jesus a black eye. Making him look bad. After all we're ambassadors for Christ. And we want people to see something different about us then what they see in the rest of the world.Thanks.
I think people know right away whether you view them as a project, or a fellow human.
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Post by civic on Aug 29, 2022 5:20:00 GMT -8
Are we talking about Unitarian Universalism here? Are they still alive and well? I thought they had virtually ceased to exist as a coherent theological system. unitarian in the sense of believing God is only 1 Person not 3- Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God. Only the Father is God. hope this helps !!! |
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