Order Salutis

The New Birth must be preceded by the gift of the Holy Spirit. Calvinism erroneously claims that the Holy Spirit is given to those who have not even repented and believed. That is because all of TULIP is wrong.

Amen brother !

Number 4 I assume also means receiving Christ to indwell you? Or is that between 5 and 6?

The preaching of the gospel is not a component of the order of salvation if a person is not saved. It would be a component in the order of judgement if and when preached lacking salvific effect. 

Exegetically, caution should be taken so as not to read sequence into the text of scripture where none is stated. Sometimes many things are happening simultaneously, not sequentially. Care should also be taken so as not to read causation into the text where none is stated because correlation is not causation. Care should also be taken to understand very few, if any, lists in the Bible are exhaustive. The Ordo Salutis is compiled from many scriptures because there is no one sentence or paragraph listing all that occurs with salvation to the point of exhaustion. Here are a couple of examples often left out of the Ordo Salutis.

The order begins prior to the gospel being preached. The Order of Salvation, or Ordo Salutis, begins prior to Genesis 1:1's declaration God created the world. Jesus was foreknown as the perfect sacrifice by which all might be saved. That is where the Order begins, not with preaching. 

Additionally, salvation is a covenant. It is the covenant of Christ (Hebrews 12:24). Every single covenant with God in the entirety of scripture is initiated by God. Not only are the covenants with God initiated by God but they are all initiated by God prior to the person(s) with whom He covenants knows about it. He chooses the person for that purpose, having already initiated the covenant. He initiates the covenant without asking them if they wish to participate. In point of fact, He does not ask if they want to participate until after the covenant is already initiated and established. Check and see. Pick any covenant with God anywhere in scripture and see for yourself. Covenant precedes preaching. So does choosing and calling. 

And I will wager few have read/heard many commentaries/articles/books/sermons/teachings that mention those three scriptural realities.

Furthermore, several of the items listed in that list are items that occur once by Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit and then again by the one already-saved and Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit. Christ justified us on the cross, but we are also justified by faith. The blood of Christ washes us clean, but it is also true the Spirit washes us in regeneration and also true the cross, the written word, and the Spirit continue to sanctify us throughout our life in Christ. We have the pledge of a clean conscience by way of the Spirit, and I don't see that pledge listed. 

Lastly, Salvation is a process that began prior to creation and is not concluded until we reach the other side of the grave in resurrection. Only then will we be incorruptible and immortal. We currently carry around in our body the death of Christ so that the life of Christ might also be revealed. If we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, then we shall also be like him in His resurrection. We have been raised and we will be raised. No Ordo Salutis is complete if it does not end with the transformation found only in resurrection from the grave. That glory is something different from the glory of Romans 8:30 (1 Cor. 15:35-49). 




The neglect of these matters leads to an incomplete understanding of one's own salvation, not just the doctrine of soteriology. 


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Okay. Good. Now we know what i said is viewed as a distraction. Appeal to ridicule noted. Next? 

 i don't base my views on what others say and do. But the appeal to anecdotal experience is noted.

 I don't base my views on what others do or don't do, and that didn't happen here. But the appeal to ad populum is noted.

No it doesn't. 

There's nothing in this post proving otherwise. The post doesn't provide any evidence of its claims (most of which are non sequitur). it is an evidence-less protest that amounts to a circular argument. 


Sure, but whether answering God before hearing the gospel or not it will merit nothing f the response occurs solely in the flesh. 

Acts 17:25 kjv
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things...
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Job 22:2
Can a man be of use to God? Can even a wise man benefit Him?

Romans 7:5
For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death.

Romans 8:8
and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Gotta have the Spirit first . 


ROTFLMBO!!!!



"Push" all you like. This Calvinist won't be deflecting anything. I will, however, point out this entire post is...... a deflection! it does not further the discussion one word. t's nothing more than a rag on Cals. What is the normal term for practicing that which we claim to disdain?




BUT first....



...log, not speck. Understand your own attitude here because if I find you breaking the forum rules again, I'll report the posts and move on .






How about starting with 1) with your list of the Order Saludis, 2) some scripture to support that view and then 3) give consderation to the whole of my op-reply and not just the quote mined sentence removed from its context?