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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 10:18:20 GMT -8
Eph 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, The true order of salvation is: 1.hear. 2. Believe. 3. Sealed. Calvinism has changed the gospel of God to the gospel of men, and that is eternally dangerous
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Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 10:24:40 GMT -8
This should make for an interesting topic of conversation. I’m banned on CARM right now hence no posts lately . I might be asking to just have my membership removed over there when I return this week . If I posted this I would be banned lol . I hope we can have some good discussions on gospel and the differences between Calvinism and non Calvinism on the topic .
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Post by alexander on Aug 22, 2022 10:34:55 GMT -8
Eph 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, The true order of salvation is: 1.hear. 2. Believe. 3. Sealed. Calvinism has changed the gospel of God to the gospel of men, and that is eternally dangerous Why have they done that? What is behind the perverting of doctine. I am convinced that aberrant doctrine rises to protect some other pet doctrine. Any idea how it fits into the picture? |
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Post by alexander on Aug 22, 2022 10:36:00 GMT -8
This should make for an interesting topic of conversation. I’m banned on CARM right now hence no posts lately . I might be asking to just have my membership removed over there when I return this week . If I posted this I would be banned lol . I hope we can have some good discussions on gospel and the differences between Calvinism and non Calvinism on the topic . I am currently banned too, I believe it had to do with a dialogue i was having with leatherneck, though I may have the name wrong |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 11:05:29 GMT -8
This should make for an interesting topic of conversation. I’m banned on CARM right now hence no posts lately . I might be asking to just have my membership removed over there when I return this week . If I posted this I would be banned lol . I hope we can have some good discussions on gospel and the differences between Calvinism and non Calvinism on the topic . I am currently banned too, I believe it had to do with a dialogue i was having with leatherneck, though I may have the name wrong I cannot remember a conversation with me that you would would have been banned over, but at 71 my memory isn’t what it used to be,lol. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 11:07:26 GMT -8
This should make for an interesting topic of conversation. I’m banned on CARM right now hence no posts lately . I might be asking to just have my membership removed over there when I return this week . If I posted this I would be banned lol . I hope we can have some good discussions on gospel and the differences between Calvinism and non Calvinism on the topic . I am currently banned too, I believe it had to do with a dialogue i was having with leatherneck, though I may have the name wrong . Everything Calvinist do is to protect their false beliefs about election. I don’t read an ESV because many verses have been changed to support Calvinism. |
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Post by civic on Aug 22, 2022 11:11:18 GMT -8
I am currently banned too, I believe it had to do with a dialogue i was having with leatherneck, though I may have the name wrong . I I cannot remember a conversation with me that you would would have been banned over, but at 71 my memory isn’t what it used to be,lol. I’m only 8 years behind you lol and it’s starting to slip  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 13:57:50 GMT -8
Calvinism changed the gospel Eph 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, The true order of salvation is: 1.hear. 2. Believe. 3. Sealed. Calvinism has changed the gospel of God to the gospel of men, and that is eternally dangerous Hmmmm.... Where is the evidence of Calvin or any Calvinists teaching an order different from hearing, then believing, then being sealed? - Is it being suggested Ephesians 1:13 is the single most definitive verse in the whole of scripture and that one single verse should be proof-texted to understand the order of salvation?
- Is it being suggested regeneration is identical to being sealed?
- Is it being suggested a verse written specifically to and about Christians is applicable to atheists?
- Is it being suggested that Calvinists (and other monergists) do NOT believe hearing comes first, and then believing, and then sealing?
Because all four of those suggestions would be WRONG (man, I wish I could use a font larger than that!) and the OP is nothing more than a straw man because it is setting up something that has absolutely no consistency with Calvin or Calvinism and then it argues against that falsehood. And I, for one, am tired of trolls posting strawmen as if they are truth. This kind of thing is inexcusable because Calvin's view of Ephesians 1:13 can be found for free online and EVERYBODY with a computer and a mouse can find it for free. I'm going to set my stopwatch right now and look it up, copy and paste it into the post with a link so EVERYONE can verify it. Calvin's Commentary on Ephesians 1:1313. In whom ye also. He associates the Ephesians with himself, and with the rest of those who were the first fruits; for he says that they, in like manner, trusted in Christ. His object is, to shew that both had the same faith; and therefore we must supply the word trusted from the twelfth verse. He afterwards states that they were brought to that hope by the preaching of the gospel.
Two epithets are here applied to the gospel, -- the word of truth, and the gospel of your salvation. Both deserve our careful attention. Nothing is more earnestly attempted by Satan than to lead us either to doubt or to despise the gospel. Paul therefore furnishes us with two shields, by which we may repel both temptations. In opposition to every doubt, let us learn to bring forward this testimony, that the gospel is not only certain truth, which cannot deceive, but is, by way of eminence, (kat ' exochen,) the word of truth, as if, strictly speaking, there were no truth but itself. If the temptation be to contempt or dislike of the gospel, let us remember that its power and efficacy have been manifested in bringing to us salvation. The apostle had formerly declared that "it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believeth," (Romans 1:16;) but here he expresses more, for he reminds the Ephesians that, having been made partakers of salvation, they had learned this by their own experience. Unhappy they who weary themselves, as the world generally does, in wandering through many winding paths, neglecting the gospel, and pleasing themselves with wild romances, -- "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth," (2 Timothy 3:7) or to find life! But happy they who have embraced the gospel, and whose attachment to it is steadfast; for this, beyond all doubt, is truth and life.
In whom also, after that ye believed. Having maintained that the gospel is certain, he now comes to the proof. And what higher surety can be found than the Holy Spirit? "Having denominated the gospel the word of truth, I will not prove it by the authority of men; for you have the testimony of the Spirit of God himself, who seals the truth of it in your hearts." This elegant comparison is taken from Seals, which among men have the effect of removing doubt. Seals give validity both to charters and to testaments; anciently, they were the principal means by which the writer of a letter could be known; and, in short, a seal distinguishes what is true and certain, from what is false and spurious. This office the apostle ascribes to the Holy Spirit, not only here, but in another part of this Epistle, (Ephesians 4:30,) and in the Second Epistle to the Corinthians, (2 Corinthians 1:22.) Our minds never become so firmly established in the truth of God as to resist all the temptations of Satan, until we have been confirmed in it by the Holy Spirit. The true conviction which believers have of the word of God, of their own salvation, and of religion in general, does not spring from the judgment of the flesh, or from human and philosophical arguments, but from the sealing of the Spirit, who imparts to their consciences such certainty as to remove all doubt. The foundation of faith would be frail and unsteady, if it rested on human wisdom; and therefore, as preaching is the instrument of faith, so the Holy Spirit makes preaching efficacious.
But is it not the faith itself which is here said to be sealed by the Holy Spirit? If so, faith goes before the sealing. I answer, there are two operations of the Spirit in faith, corresponding to the two parts of which faith consists, as it enlightens, and as it establishes the mind. The commencement of faith is knowledge: the completion of it is a firm and steady conviction, which admits of no opposing doubt. Both, I have said, are the work of the Spirit. No wonder, then, if Paul should declare that the Ephesians, who received by faith the truth of the gospel, were confirmed in that faith by the seal of the Holy Spirit.
With that Holy Spirit of promise. This title is derived from the effect produced; for to him we owe it that the promise of salvation is not made to us in vain. As God promises in his word, "that he will be to us a Father," (2 Corinthians 6:18,) so he gives to us the evidence of having adopted us by the Holy Spirit.My stopwatch reads 49 seconds. There's no excuse for this. WHEN YOU FIND SOMEONE WRITING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CHECK WITH THE SOURCE HIMSELF!!!!!!!!! Anyone who doesn't is acting irresponsible. It's not just irresponsible, it's disobedient and ungodly. It amounts to bearing false witness. When it happens knowingly with an intent to persuade others of things that are not the truth then it is outright lying. The evidence of what Calvin actually taught about Ephesians 1:13 is above. The saints in Ephesus heard the gospel, they believed the gospel, and they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. Calvin taught the Holy Spirit sealed the truth of the gospel in them and the conviction of what they believed regarding their salvation did not come from the flesh but from the Spirit. He explicitly stated, " faith goes before sealing," so anyone claiming Calvin taught otherwise is not speaking the truth. It's right there for everyone to see for themselves. Calvin did not hold or teach hearing did not come before believing. He did not teach believing did not come before sealing. He did not teach sealing came before believing, or that believing came before hearing. Furthermore, the role and work of the Holy Spirit is diverse; there are many components to the order of salvation beside hearing, believing and sealing. Conditions such as covenanting, calling, choosing, preparing the hearer's ears to hear correctly, justification, sanctification, regeneration and much more were left out of this OP's " true" order of salvation, but this OP would have us reduce the order to three components and order them as recorded in one single, solitary verse that was written by an already regenerate believer to already regenerate believers about already regenerate believers! Proof-texting is ALWAYS bad form. Now if you, leatherneck0311 , can provide us with actual evidence proving Calvin or any authority within Calvinism actually taught what is being suggested in this OP then please, right now, do so. Link us all to it so that we may verify it. Otherwise, this is a wretched OP that should be deleted because of its completely false insinuations and utterly false conclusion that insinuates all Calvinists are false teachers of a false gospel. If the content of this OP was taken from another source, then that source should be considered unreliable and never used again as a source for understanding Calvinism. The source should be posted for our benefit so all of us can stay away from it. Read Calvin firsthand. He was quite capable of speaking for himself and the sources are free. 49 seconds. Faith goes before sealing No excuse for not checking. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 15:04:59 GMT -8
Calvinism changed the gospel Eph 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, The true order of salvation is: 1.hear. 2. Believe. 3. Sealed. Calvinism has changed the gospel of God to the gospel of men, and that is eternally dangerous Hmmmm.... Where is the evidence of Calvin or any Calvinists teaching an order different from hearing, then believing, then being sealed? - Is it being suggested Ephesians 1:13 is the single most definitive verse in the whole of scripture and that one single verse should be proof-texted to understand the order of salvation?
- Is it being suggested regeneration is identical to being sealed?
- Is it being suggested a verse written specifically to and about Christians is applicable to atheists?
- Is it being suggested that Calvinists (and other monergists) do NOT believe hearing comes first, and then believing, and then sealing?
Because all four of those suggestions would be WRONG (man, I wish I could use a font larger than that!) and the OP is nothing more than a straw man because it is setting up something that has absolutely no consistency with Calvin or Calvinism and then it argues against that falsehood. And I, for one, am tired of trolls posting strawmen as if they are truth. This kind of thing is inexcusable because Calvin's view of Ephesians 1:13 can be found for free online and EVERYBODY with a computer and a mouse can find it for free. I'm going to set my stopwatch right now and look it up, copy and paste it into the post with a link so EVERYONE can verify it. Calvin's Commentary on Ephesians 1:1313. In whom ye also. He associates the Ephesians with himself, and with the rest of those who were the first fruits; for he says that they, in like manner, trusted in Christ. His object is, to shew that both had the same faith; and therefore we must supply the word trusted from the twelfth verse. He afterwards states that they were brought to that hope by the preaching of the gospel.
Two epithets are here applied to the gospel, -- the word of truth, and the gospel of your salvation. Both deserve our careful attention. Nothing is more earnestly attempted by Satan than to lead us either to doubt or to despise the gospel. Paul therefore furnishes us with two shields, by which we may repel both temptations. In opposition to every doubt, let us learn to bring forward this testimony, that the gospel is not only certain truth, which cannot deceive, but is, by way of eminence, (kat ' exochen,) the word of truth, as if, strictly speaking, there were no truth but itself. If the temptation be to contempt or dislike of the gospel, let us remember that its power and efficacy have been manifested in bringing to us salvation. The apostle had formerly declared that "it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believeth," (Romans 1:16;) but here he expresses more, for he reminds the Ephesians that, having been made partakers of salvation, they had learned this by their own experience. Unhappy they who weary themselves, as the world generally does, in wandering through many winding paths, neglecting the gospel, and pleasing themselves with wild romances, -- "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth," (2 Timothy 3:7) or to find life! But happy they who have embraced the gospel, and whose attachment to it is steadfast; for this, beyond all doubt, is truth and life.
In whom also, after that ye believed. Having maintained that the gospel is certain, he now comes to the proof. And what higher surety can be found than the Holy Spirit? "Having denominated the gospel the word of truth, I will not prove it by the authority of men; for you have the testimony of the Spirit of God himself, who seals the truth of it in your hearts." This elegant comparison is taken from Seals, which among men have the effect of removing doubt. Seals give validity both to charters and to testaments; anciently, they were the principal means by which the writer of a letter could be known; and, in short, a seal distinguishes what is true and certain, from what is false and spurious. This office the apostle ascribes to the Holy Spirit, not only here, but in another part of this Epistle, (Ephesians 4:30,) and in the Second Epistle to the Corinthians, (2 Corinthians 1:22.) Our minds never become so firmly established in the truth of God as to resist all the temptations of Satan, until we have been confirmed in it by the Holy Spirit. The true conviction which believers have of the word of God, of their own salvation, and of religion in general, does not spring from the judgment of the flesh, or from human and philosophical arguments, but from the sealing of the Spirit, who imparts to their consciences such certainty as to remove all doubt. The foundation of faith would be frail and unsteady, if it rested on human wisdom; and therefore, as preaching is the instrument of faith, so the Holy Spirit makes preaching efficacious.
But is it not the faith itself which is here said to be sealed by the Holy Spirit? If so, faith goes before the sealing. I answer, there are two operations of the Spirit in faith, corresponding to the two parts of which faith consists, as it enlightens, and as it establishes the mind. The commencement of faith is knowledge: the completion of it is a firm and steady conviction, which admits of no opposing doubt. Both, I have said, are the work of the Spirit. No wonder, then, if Paul should declare that the Ephesians, who received by faith the truth of the gospel, were confirmed in that faith by the seal of the Holy Spirit.
With that Holy Spirit of promise. This title is derived from the effect produced; for to him we owe it that the promise of salvation is not made to us in vain. As God promises in his word, "that he will be to us a Father," (2 Corinthians 6:18,) so he gives to us the evidence of having adopted us by the Holy Spirit.My stopwatch reads 49 seconds. There's no excuse for this. WHEN YOU FIND SOMEONE WRITING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CHECK WITH THE SOURCE HIMSELF!!!!!!!!! Anyone who doesn't is acting irresponsible. It's not just irresponsible, it's disobedient and ungodly. It amounts to bearing false witness. When it happens knowingly with an intent to persuade others of things that are not the truth then it is outright lying. The evidence of what Calvin actually taught about Ephesians 1:13 is above. The saints in Ephesus heard the gospel, they believed the gospel, and they were then sealed by the Holy Spirit. Calvin taught the Holy Spirit sealed the truth of the gospel in them and the conviction of what they believed regarding their salvation did not come from the flesh but from the Spirit. He explicitly stated, " faith goes before sealing," so anyone claiming Calvin taught otherwise is not speaking the truth. It's right there for everyone to see for themselves. Calvin did not hold or teach hearing did not come before believing. He did not teach believing did not come before sealing. He did not teach sealing came before believing, or that believing came before hearing. Furthermore, the role and work of the Holy Spirit is diverse; there are many components to the order of salvation beside hearing, believing and sealing. Conditions such as covenanting, calling, choosing, preparing the hearer's ears to hear correctly, justification, sanctification, regeneration and much more were left out of this OP's " true" order of salvation, but this OP would have us reduce the order to three components and order them as recorded in one single, solitary verse that was written by an already regenerate believer to already regenerate believers about already regenerate believers! Proof-texting is ALWAYS bad form. Now if you, leatherneck0311 , can provide us with actual evidence proving Calvin or any authority within Calvinism actually taught what is being suggested in this OP then please, right now, do so. Link us all to it so that we may verify it. Otherwise, this is a wretched OP that should be deleted because of its completely false insinuations and utterly false conclusion that insinuates all Calvinists are false teachers of a false gospel. If the content of this OP was taken from another source, then that source should be considered unreliable and never used again as a source for understanding Calvinism. The source should be posted for our benefit so all of us can stay away from it. Read Calvin firsthand. He was quite capable of speaking for himself and the sources are free. 49 seconds. Faith goes before seal No excuse for not checking. . What exactly did you hear before you were elected , which supposedly happened before God created the heavens and the earth ? One thing for sure Calvinist can twist and ignore context of scripture right along with the best of them. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 22, 2022 15:24:24 GMT -8
I am currently banned too, I believe it had to do with a dialogue i was having with leatherneck, though I may have the name wrong I cannot remember a conversation with me that you would would have been banned over, but at 71 my memory isn’t what it used to be,lol. I hear that! 73 here ... it gets worse  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 15:41:50 GMT -8
Hmmmm.... Where is the evidence of Calvin or any Calvinists teaching an order different from hearing, then believing, then being sealed? - Is it being suggested Ephesians 1:13 is the single most definitive verse in the whole of scripture and that one single verse should be proof-texted to understand the order of salvation?
- Is it being suggested regeneration is identical to being sealed?
- Is it being suggested a verse written specifically to and about Christians is applicable to atheists?
- Is it being suggested that Calvinists (and other monergists) do NOT believe hearing comes first, and then believing, and then sealing?
Because all four of those suggestions would be WRONG (man, I wish I could use a font larger than that!) and the OP is nothing more than a straw man because it is setting up something that has absolutely no consistency with Calvin or Calvinism and then it argues against that falsehood. . What exactly did you hear before you were elected , which supposedly happened before God created the heavens and the earth ? One thing for sure Calvinist can twist and ignore context of scripture right along with the best of them. No, you don't get to make this about me. That is a red herring. There will be no shifting of onus, either. This is your op, and it isn't anyone else's obligation to disprove it. It's your responsibility to evidence this op, and then prove the claim made with that evidence. You've already committed a baseless accusation, born false witness, and posted a straw man. Don't make things worse with red herrings and shifting onuses. Don't make it worse by adding more baseless accusations when the only one twisting anything. Don't make things worse by attempts to change the topic. This op claims Calvinists teach something different than Ephesians 1:13. This matter is easily resolved: just post some evidence of Calvin teaching the claim made in this op. If you want to make "one thing for sure," then post the proof. Do not make stuff up about Calvinists and then tell everyone the made-up stuff is what Cals teach. Prove the claim of this op, and do it with actual evidence of actual Calvinists actually teaching the claim made in this OP. Or........ Since evidence has now already been provided that Calvin himself taught faith goes before sealing, maybe you ought to just acknowledge that evidence, conceding Calvin taught faith precedes sealing. I'll settle for a plain, simple, unequivocal acknowledgment of the evidence I provided but what I really think you should do is post a public expression of specified regret and an earnest statement purposing not to repeat this mistake but to instead always verify any such content before posting it, and then ask the mods to delete the thread. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 15:43:48 GMT -8
I cannot remember a conversation with me that you would would have been banned over, but at 71 my memory isn’t what it used to be,lol. I hear that! 73 here ... it gets worse . lol, roger that kind of figured it would. Here pretty soon we are going to see the King of Kings and Lord of Lords it will get better. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 22, 2022 15:48:00 GMT -8
. What exactly did you hear before you were elected , which supposedly happened before God created the heavens and the earth ? One thing for sure Calvinist can twist and ignore context of scripture right along with the best of them. No, you don't get to make this about me. That is a red herring. There will be no shifting of onus, either. This is your op, and it isn't anyone else's obligation to disprove it. It's your responsibility to evidence this op, and then prove the claim made with that evidence. You've already committed a baseless accusation, born false witness, and posted a straw man. Don't make things worse with red herrings and shifting onuses. Don't make it worse by adding more baseless accusations when the only one twisting anything. Don't make things worse by attempts to change the topic. This op claims Calvinists teach something different than Ephesians 1:13. This matter is easily resolved: just post some evidence of Calvin teaching the claim made in this op. If you want to make "one thing for sure," then post the proof. Do not make stuff up about Calvinists and then tell everyone the made-up stuff is what Cals teach. Prove the claim of this op, and do it with actual evidence of actual Calvinists actually teaching the claim made in this OP. Or........ Since evidence has now already been provided that Calvin himself taught faith goes before sealing, maybe you ought to just acknowledge that evidence, conceding Calvin taught faith precedes sealing. I'll settle for a plain, simple, unequivocal acknowledgment of the evidence I provided but what I really think you should do is post a public expression of specified regret and an earnest statement purposing not to repeat this mistake but to instead always verify any such content before posting it, and then ask the mods to delete the thread. . I haven’t made anything about you. Calvinist believe they were elected by God before He created the heavens and earth which contradict scripture. So again what do Calvinist hear and believe before they are elected. All I have done is expose the man made gospel of Calvinism which contradicts scripture. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 22, 2022 15:54:40 GMT -8
I hear that! 73 here ... it gets worse . lol, roger that kind of figured it would. Here pretty soon we are going to see the King of Kings and Lord of Lords it will get better. That's exactly what I was thinking when I Typed the reply. Old minds think alike. |
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Post by leatherneck0311 on Aug 23, 2022 5:46:59 GMT -8
. I haven’t made anything about you. Calvinist believe they were elected by God before He created the heavens and earth which contradict scripture. So again what do Calvinist hear and believe before they are elected. All I have done is expose the man made gospel of Calvinism which contradicts scripture. Doctrine of election NOT biblical? Your Response I haven’t made anything about you. Calvinist believe they were elected by God before He created the heavens and earth which contradict scripture. So again what do Calvinist hear and believe before they are elected. All I have done is expose the man made gospel of Calvinism which contradicts scripture. What is the doctrine of election? ANSWER An election is a time when people choose who they want to fill certain positions from President on down. An election is a choice. The biblical doctrine of election teaches that God chooses to save some, and, by necessity, if He does not choose everyone, then there are some who are passed over. Those whom He has chosen to save are referred to as “the elect” (see, e.g., Mark 13:20). The Bible teaches that God chooses people based on His own purposes and His desire to show grace to underserving sinners. Ephesians 1:4–6 says, “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.” He chose in love, in accordance with His pleasure and will, so that He would be glorified. God’s election has nothing to do with what the elect would or would not do. God did not choose everyone. If He had, then everyone would come to faith in Christ. He chose some, and He left others to their own desires. Left to ourselves, all of us would continue in our rebellion and reject Christ. God chose to pursue some, convict them of their need, and lead them to faith. It is because of God’s choice that anyone comes to faith in Christ. Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day” (John 6:44).
This is a tough truth to get our minds around. We are tempted to think that we are more just and gracious than God and that He should have chosen everyone. We need to reject that temptation. We are in no place to judge God! It is not as though some are desperately crying out to Him for salvation and He rejects them because He has not chosen them. Those whom God does not choose continue doing exactly what they want—they rebel against God and try to stay as far away from Him as possible. He simply allows them to continue on the path they have freely and willfully chosen. He has, however, chosen to intervene in the lives of some and win them over. He does this so that He might show His love and kindness to people who are undeserving. Some people think that God “chooses” based on the choices that He knows that the elect will make: He knows who will and who will not receive Christ, and He makes His choice based on that. But that would make people the ultimate choosers, with God simply following our choice. Biblically, it is the other way around. God chooses some based on His own purposes, and then, in response to His work in their lives, they choose Him. His choice is first and foundational. Without God’s election, no one would ever turn to Him. Many Christians recoil at the doctrine of election the first time they hear it. But, upon further reflection, most believers will admit that God was at work in their lives, drawing them to Himself long before they were even aware of it. They will recognize that, if He had not intervened, they would have continued in unbelief. The hand of God, working in big ways and little ways, becomes more evident in hindsight.
Some object to the doctrine of election on the grounds that it stifles missionary and evangelistic activity. After all, if God has chosen to save some, then they will be saved whether or not anyone takes them the gospel—so why bother? This objection overlooks the truth that hearing and believing the gospel is the means that God uses to save those He has chosen to save. Paul believed and taught election (it is a New Testament doctrine), yet he was zealous like no other in his missionary endeavors. Because he knew that God had chosen to save people through the gospel, Paul proclaimed it boldly and was persecuted for it. He explains, “I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 2:10). Paul endured persecution so that the elect will be saved, because the elect cannot be saved without hearing and believing the gospel. Through evangelism, God allows people to participate in His great plan of drawing a people unto Himself from every nation and language on earth. The doctrine of election frees us to share the gospel without pressure or fear of failure. When we share the gospel clearly, we have been obedient, and that is a success. The results are left to God. www.gotquestions.org/doctrine-of-election.html#:~:text=What%20is%20the,left%20to%20God. After reading this, do you still think this is unbiblical? J. . I believe election is biblical NOT the perversion and distortion Calvinism has created. Election is based on God’s foreknowledge not on a heavenly lottery. 1:Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. |
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