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Post by Aussie Pete on Aug 26, 2022 0:47:52 GMT -8
Not everyone agrees that there is a second salvation, in spite of the two direct statements in God's Word. Peter tells us that the salvation of the soul is the goal of our faith. (1 Peter 1:9). James tells us that it is the implanted Word that is able to save the soul (James 1:21).
Some argue that this is 'progressive sanctification. I beg to differ. The spirit of man and his soul are distinct. They have different functions. Fundamentally, the spirit is the real "me" and the soul is the means by which we express ourselves to the outer realm. As Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord! My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour!" (Luke 1:46)
We read many scriptures that seem contradictory. We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. I know a number of embittered and disillusioned Christians who are saved, but show no reality of Christ in their lives. I know others who are shallow they are like spiritual infants even after decades. Some think that the parable of the sower only relates to the initial conversion experience. This is not so. It applies for the lifetime of the believer.
Not convinced? Tell me then, what does this mean: “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” (1 Peter 4:18)
It is not at all hard to be saved initially. Receive Christ and God does the rest. There are many references that state this, for example, 1 Corinthians 1:30 "It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption."
The issue is that we have a life source that is opposed to God. It is the life that Adam had at his creation. Adam's life was corrupted when he disobeyed God. The life in the soul is not necessarily evil. However, it is independent of God. It is self centred and self interested. It is that part of us, especially the "good" part, that must be denied. Sin is bad, but at least we recognise it readily. Self is much more devious. Much can be done that is good in man's eyes. God is not impressed. Only what is according to His will and done in His power, to His glory, pleases Him.
This is what Lord Jesus meant by losing our lives. Our self will, our ambitions, our dreams, even our relationships must go to the cross so that the life of Christ may come to the fore. Two objects cannot occupy the same space. You cannot have God's will and self will at the same time.
Eventually, and sometimes through much tribulation, our will (mostly) lines up with God's will. And that is the salvation of the soul. That is the goal of our faith.
Perfection is not available in this life. However, we can and should be experiencing transformation, from glory to glory as we allow God to effect the change.
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Post by civic on Aug 30, 2022 4:44:11 GMT -8
Aussie Pete thanks for sharing this post it has given me some food for thought to ponder.
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49 
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Post by 101G on Aug 31, 2022 7:10:35 GMT -8
Not everyone agrees that there is a second salvation, in spite of the two direct statements in God's Word. Peter tells us that the salvation of the soul is the goal of our faith. (1 Peter 1:9). James tells us that it is the implanted Word that is able to save the soul (James 1:21).
Some argue that this is 'progressive sanctification. I beg to differ. The spirit of man and his soul are distinct. They have different functions. Fundamentally, the spirit is the real "me" and the soul is the means by which we express ourselves to the outer realm. As Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord! My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour!" (Luke 1:46)
We read many scriptures that seem contradictory. We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. I know a number of embittered and disillusioned Christians who are saved, but show no reality of Christ in their lives. I know others who are shallow they are like spiritual infants even after decades. Some think that the parable of the sower only relates to the initial conversion experience. This is not so. It applies for the lifetime of the believer.
Not convinced? Tell me then, what does this mean: “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” (1 Peter 4:18)
It is not at all hard to be saved initially. Receive Christ and God does the rest. There are many references that state this, for example, 1 Corinthians 1:30 "It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption."
The issue is that we have a life source that is opposed to God. It is the life that Adam had at his creation. Adam's life was corrupted when he disobeyed God. The life in the soul is not necessarily evil. However, it is independent of God. It is self centred and self interested. It is that part of us, especially the "good" part, that must be denied. Sin is bad, but at least we recognise it readily. Self is much more devious. Much can be done that is good in man's eyes. God is not impressed. Only what is according to His will and done in His power, to His glory, pleases Him.
This is what Lord Jesus meant by losing our lives. Our self will, our ambitions, our dreams, even our relationships must go to the cross so that the life of Christ may come to the fore. Two objects cannot occupy the same space. You cannot have God's will and self will at the same time.
Eventually, and sometimes through much tribulation, our will (mostly) lines up with God's will. And that is the salvation of the soul. That is the goal of our faith.
Perfection is not available in this life. However, we can and should be experiencing transformation, from glory to glory as we allow God to effect the change.
Thanks for the post, #1. the spirit in our Bodies are God's for he gave them to us. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:" and when we die, the first death, the spirit returns to God who gave it. scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." well, the dust/the body, and the spirit, are know where they go, and where or to whom both belong, spirit God, dust earth. so that leaves the SOUL, which should be addressed and to tell the truth our souls are not ours, Ezekiel 18:4 " Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2022 15:36:02 GMT -8
We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. This is a discussion I'd like to have. Before doing so I'd like to clarify a couple of things and if we have agreement then we have a basis or platform for having the discussion of this op. Can we use the terms "conversion" and "born anew" interchangeably with "born again"? We are brought from death to life in conversion, or when we are born again. The actual Greek of John 3:3 is "born anew from above ( gennethe anothen). If we can agree to this language then we should also understand conversion is a single episode that is simply one step in a larger process of salvation that consists of many steps (including but not limited to calling, sanctification, justification, etc.). That process concludes with our resurrection and the transformation that results. In this way we understand there are two moments of "conversion," the first being when we are born again and the last when we are resurrected. Both have to do with being brought from death to life, the first is our being brought from sinful death to regenerate life and the last is our being brought from physical death to immortality/eternal life. Does that work for you? If so, I have a BUNCH of questions about things said in this op. I'll take them a few at a time. First, our being born again, or our conversion entails our having our spirit regenerated or born again or born anew from above and our subsequently being indwelt with God's own Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. The word "holy" literally means "separate," but the word also carries the connotation of being separated specifically for sacred purpose(s). Using that definition, we necessarily understand the regeneration and the subsequent indwelling is out being born anew by and indwelt with The Separate Sacred Spirit of God. Yes, or no? The second question has to do with the purpose of salvation. I'll rely on Ephesians 2:5-10 as my prooftext. That passage tells is we are saved by grace, through faith FOR works. More specifically, the text states we are created in Christ for works God has already planned in advance for us to perform. Do you understand this qualifier of " in advance" to mean these works God has planned for us are ones He planned for us before He saved us? If not, then what does the " in advance" reference? One last thing. I'd like to start with as much of what is plainly stated in scripture and not what a particular verse might be made to say interpretively. I'm less interested in what you or I construe a verse to mean and more interested in what the verse states. The middle ground is what a verse or passage means when defined by other scripture with our working not to create conflicts between two or more verses. Exegesis, not eisegesis. That work for you? In summary: Our salvation necessarily entails us being born anew by the Holy Spirit and indwelt by that same Separate Sacred Spirit for works we were saved by God and created in Christ and empowered by the Spirit to perform before we got saved. Yes? |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 31, 2022 16:29:11 GMT -8
It definitely should be a good discussion. I've been running your post over in my mind for about 10 minutes it should be able to come up with something tomorrow. I have no problem at all using conversion interchangeably was born again. the last two questions better are intriguing to me.
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 1, 2022 3:44:06 GMT -8
Your first question about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and all that it entails, I can definitely say my answer to your question is yes. Even though it's not a simple question as there are a few things there to think about and ponder over.
Now question number two is very interesting. I like the wording of this translation. Ephesians 2:10 New Century Version
10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us to do good works, which God planned in advance for us to live our lives doing.
The last part in bold It's what I like about it. I'm thinking a Christian lifestyle. Our walk with Jesus should be like He told us "Pick up your cross and follow me"
This raises an obvious question: What are the good works God has prepared for me? I think we all know what the standard answer would be. Attending worship services, praying regularly, studying Scripture, giving generously from our financial resources, joining a small group, going on mission trips, caring for the poor, working for justice for the oppressed, loving our neighbors, and so forth.
For me personally it would be the Great Commission. And by that, I mean representing Christ everywhere we go and with everyone we talked to. Also not only talking the talk but also walking the walk so the people can see something different about you and wonder what it is.
In the Greek original Translation of Eph 2:10 reads more literally, "which God prepared in advance, so that we might walk in them." The language of walking was used by teachers in the time of Paul in the way we might talk of living or engaging in a certain lifestyle. In other words, the good works of verse 10 are not only religious activities scattered throughout our life. But more like, the good works encompass our whole life, all that we do by God's grace for God's purposes. We are to be a Living Sacrifice.
Romans 12:1, for example, says, "I urge you ... to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God." This offering takes place, not in temples, but in everyday life. Paul goes on to say that is our reasonable service. It's what's expected of us.
I think your question number one and question number two fit together. Good stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 7:32:27 GMT -8
Not everyone agrees that there is a second salvation, in spite of the two direct statements in God's Word. Peter tells us that the salvation of the soul is the goal of our faith. (1 Peter 1:9). James tells us that it is the implanted Word that is able to save the soul (James 1:21).
Some argue that this is 'progressive sanctification. I beg to differ. The spirit of man and his soul are distinct. They have different functions. Fundamentally, the spirit is the real "me" and the soul is the means by which we express ourselves to the outer realm. As Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord! My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour!" (Luke 1:46)
We read many scriptures that seem contradictory. We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. I know a number of embittered and disillusioned Christians who are saved, but show no reality of Christ in their lives. I know others who are shallow they are like spiritual infants even after decades. Some think that the parable of the sower only relates to the initial conversion experience. This is not so. It applies for the lifetime of the believer.
Not convinced? Tell me then, what does this mean: “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” (1 Peter 4:18)
It is not at all hard to be saved initially. Receive Christ and God does the rest. There are many references that state this, for example, 1 Corinthians 1:30 "It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption."
The issue is that we have a life source that is opposed to God. It is the life that Adam had at his creation. Adam's life was corrupted when he disobeyed God. The life in the soul is not necessarily evil. However, it is independent of God. It is self centred and self interested. It is that part of us, especially the "good" part, that must be denied. Sin is bad, but at least we recognise it readily. Self is much more devious. Much can be done that is good in man's eyes. God is not impressed. Only what is according to His will and done in His power, to His glory, pleases Him.
This is what Lord Jesus meant by losing our lives. Our self will, our ambitions, our dreams, even our relationships must go to the cross so that the life of Christ may come to the fore. Two objects cannot occupy the same space. You cannot have God's will and self will at the same time.
Eventually, and sometimes through much tribulation, our will (mostly) lines up with God's will. And that is the salvation of the soul. That is the goal of our faith.
Perfection is not available in this life. However, we can and should be experiencing transformation, from glory to glory as we allow God to effect the change.
Thanks for the post, #1. the spirit in our Bodies are God's for he gave them to us. Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:" and when we die, the first death, the spirit returns to God who gave it. scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." well, the dust/the body, and the spirit, are know where they go, and where or to whom both belong, spirit God, dust earth. so that leaves the SOUL, which should be addressed and to tell the truth our souls are not ours, Ezekiel 18:4 " Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Can you provide an example in scripture where a disembodied spirit occurs? |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Sept 1, 2022 9:10:17 GMT -8
Not everyone agrees that there is a second salvation, in spite of the two direct statements in God's Word. Peter tells us that the salvation of the soul is the goal of our faith. (1 Peter 1:9). James tells us that it is the implanted Word that is able to save the soul (James 1:21).
Some argue that this is 'progressive sanctification. I beg to differ. The spirit of man and his soul are distinct. They have different functions. Fundamentally, the spirit is the real "me" and the soul is the means by which we express ourselves to the outer realm. As Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord! My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour!" (Luke 1:46)
We read many scriptures that seem contradictory. We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. I know a number of embittered and disillusioned Christians who are saved, but show no reality of Christ in their lives. I know others who are shallow they are like spiritual infants even after decades. Some think that the parable of the sower only relates to the initial conversion experience. This is not so. It applies for the lifetime of the believer.
Not convinced? Tell me then, what does this mean: “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” (1 Peter 4:18)
It is not at all hard to be saved initially. Receive Christ and God does the rest. There are many references that state this, for example, 1 Corinthians 1:30 "It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption."
The issue is that we have a life source that is opposed to God. It is the life that Adam had at his creation. Adam's life was corrupted when he disobeyed God. The life in the soul is not necessarily evil. However, it is independent of God. It is self centred and self interested. It is that part of us, especially the "good" part, that must be denied. Sin is bad, but at least we recognise it readily. Self is much more devious. Much can be done that is good in man's eyes. God is not impressed. Only what is according to His will and done in His power, to His glory, pleases Him.
This is what Lord Jesus meant by losing our lives. Our self will, our ambitions, our dreams, even our relationships must go to the cross so that the life of Christ may come to the fore. Two objects cannot occupy the same space. You cannot have God's will and self will at the same time.
Eventually, and sometimes through much tribulation, our will (mostly) lines up with God's will. And that is the salvation of the soul. That is the goal of our faith.
Perfection is not available in this life. However, we can and should be experiencing transformation, from glory to glory as we allow God to effect the change.
I see it this way We are saved (from the penalty of sin) we are being saved (from the power of sin We will be saved (from the ability to sin) Soul salvation is immediate.. We have been saved by Gods mercy.. We could never save ourselves.. so I disagree with the notion salvation could be lost.. |
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genez
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Post by genez on Sept 1, 2022 18:07:05 GMT -8
Two different salvations.
First salvation is from the Lake of Fire after believing in Christ. Both winner and loser who believes in Christ will be saved from the Lake of Fire.
The second is the salvation of the soul. Gaining knowledge and peace that leads to a happiness that not all know.
That happens when a saved person is faithful to keep growing by knowledge in Grace, to to become progressively saved more and more from the lies and evils in the world he finds himself in. He must suffer for a season as he endures and persists in the resistance from demons trying to hold him back.... he persists and resists the devil by continuing to take in sound teachings that the Holy Spirit can become one with him in. Then... a joy in God's timing will be his. That is why false teachings to tickle the ears are so detrimental to becoming an over comer for Christ. Emotional satisfaction is from pride. Inner peace and tranquility of soul comes by the power of God. That is why its called "the salvation of our souls." Inner peace and power to reason.
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 2, 2022 11:35:52 GMT -8
Two different salvations.
First salvation is from the Lake of Fire after believing in Christ. Both winner and loser who believes in Christ will be saved from the Lake of Fire.
The second is the salvation of the soul. Gaining knowledge and peace that leads to a happiness that not all know.
That happens when a saved person is faithful to keep growing by knowledge in Grace, to to become progressively saved more and more from the lies and evils in the world he finds himself in. He must suffer for a season as he endures and persists in the resistance from demons trying to hold him back.... he persists and resists the devil by continuing to take in sound teachings that the Holy Spirit can become one with him in. Then... a joy in God's timing will be his. That is why false teachings to tickle the ears are so detrimental to becoming an over comer for Christ. Emotional satisfaction is from pride. Inner peace and tranquility of soul comes by the power of God. That is why its called "the salvation of our souls." Inner peace and power to reason. I look at it as the completion of the first salvation. The Bible indicates that we are bought/saved but we are incomplete having just an earnest portion of the Holy Spirit rather than the fulness of it. Ephesians 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. |
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genez
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Post by genez on Sept 2, 2022 13:19:03 GMT -8
Two different salvations.
First salvation is from the Lake of Fire after believing in Christ. Both winner and loser who believes in Christ will be saved from the Lake of Fire.
The second is the salvation of the soul. Gaining knowledge and peace that leads to a happiness that not all know.
That happens when a saved person is faithful to keep growing by knowledge in Grace, to to become progressively saved more and more from the lies and evils in the world he finds himself in. He must suffer for a season as he endures and persists in the resistance from demons trying to hold him back.... he persists and resists the devil by continuing to take in sound teachings that the Holy Spirit can become one with him in. Then... a joy in God's timing will be his. That is why false teachings to tickle the ears are so detrimental to becoming an over comer for Christ. Emotional satisfaction is from pride. Inner peace and tranquility of soul comes by the power of God. That is why its called "the salvation of our souls." Inner peace and power to reason. I look at it as the completion of the first salvation. The Bible indicates that we are bought/saved but we are incomplete having just an earnest portion of the Holy Spirit rather than the fulness of it. Ephesians 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The first salvation is complete. The thief on the cross is proof of that.
The salvation of our souls is concerning how we live after we are saved forever.
Redeem the time.
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yacker
Junior Member
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Post by yacker on Sept 2, 2022 17:35:39 GMT -8
Two different salvations.
First salvation is from the Lake of Fire after believing in Christ. Both winner and loser who believes in Christ will be saved from the Lake of Fire.
The second is the salvation of the soul. Gaining knowledge and peace that leads to a happiness that not all know.
That happens when a saved person is faithful to keep growing by knowledge in Grace, to to become progressively saved more and more from the lies and evils in the world he finds himself in. He must suffer for a season as he endures and persists in the resistance from demons trying to hold him back.... he persists and resists the devil by continuing to take in sound teachings that the Holy Spirit can become one with him in. Then... a joy in God's timing will be his. That is why false teachings to tickle the ears are so detrimental to becoming an over comer for Christ. Emotional satisfaction is from pride. Inner peace and tranquility of soul comes by the power of God. That is why its called "the salvation of our souls." Inner peace and power to reason. Jesus is our Salvation, there is no two Salvations its all in one = God Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ If you are Born again you get God inside you, that is the seal of eternal life because only God is eternal and cannot die 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. Feeling good isn't Salvation, Jesus been in you is, The fact that he will never leave or forsake you that definitely brings peace Thanks be to God who always gives us victory through Jesus |
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genez
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Post by genez on Sept 2, 2022 21:02:25 GMT -8
Its no wonder we are in such trouble.....
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Sept 3, 2022 9:05:56 GMT -8
Not everyone agrees that there is a second salvation, in spite of the two direct statements in God's Word. Peter tells us that the salvation of the soul is the goal of our faith. (1 Peter 1:9). James tells us that it is the implanted Word that is able to save the soul (James 1:21).
Some argue that this is 'progressive sanctification. I beg to differ. The spirit of man and his soul are distinct. They have different functions. Fundamentally, the spirit is the real "me" and the soul is the means by which we express ourselves to the outer realm. As Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord! My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour!" (Luke 1:46)
We read many scriptures that seem contradictory. We are saved when we receive Christ (John 1:12). Or no, not really. We are saved when we confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. How do we reconcile these differences? If we realise that the initial salvation is to be born again, and that the soul is saved progressively, it all makes perfect sense.
This difference is the answer to "OSAS" disputes. It is not possible to be unborn again, but it is certainly possible to lose the salvation of the soul in experience. I know a number of embittered and disillusioned Christians who are saved, but show no reality of Christ in their lives. I know others who are shallow they are like spiritual infants even after decades. Some think that the parable of the sower only relates to the initial conversion experience. This is not so. It applies for the lifetime of the believer.
Not convinced? Tell me then, what does this mean: “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” (1 Peter 4:18)
It is not at all hard to be saved initially. Receive Christ and God does the rest. There are many references that state this, for example, 1 Corinthians 1:30 "It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption."
The issue is that we have a life source that is opposed to God. It is the life that Adam had at his creation. Adam's life was corrupted when he disobeyed God. The life in the soul is not necessarily evil. However, it is independent of God. It is self centred and self interested. It is that part of us, especially the "good" part, that must be denied. Sin is bad, but at least we recognise it readily. Self is much more devious. Much can be done that is good in man's eyes. God is not impressed. Only what is according to His will and done in His power, to His glory, pleases Him.
This is what Lord Jesus meant by losing our lives. Our self will, our ambitions, our dreams, even our relationships must go to the cross so that the life of Christ may come to the fore. Two objects cannot occupy the same space. You cannot have God's will and self will at the same time.
Eventually, and sometimes through much tribulation, our will (mostly) lines up with God's will. And that is the salvation of the soul. That is the goal of our faith.
Perfection is not available in this life. However, we can and should be experiencing transformation, from glory to glory as we allow God to effect the change.
Good post. That being said, the "souls" improvement should not kill us, for said improvement. Like yourself. I have an issue with Souls improvement. Especially when the souls in question was never ours to begin with. Of course, the improvement thingy. As in, for whom .... |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Sept 3, 2022 9:07:34 GMT -8
Its no wonder we are in such trouble..... LOL ...... Classic ...... The next thing you know we will be sitting around the campfire talking about felings!! God help us!!! |
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