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Post by Theophilus on Sept 13, 2022 16:44:43 GMT -8
The baptism of the Spirit is unique to this church age in which you and I are living. Did you know that the Holy Spirit didn’t baptize people in the Old Testament? He came upon people individually, but He did not baptize them into the body of Christ. Not until the Day of Pentecost did the Holy Spirit perform this major work. This was a special gift from God to His church. God only has one family.” He doesn’t have two or three. He has just one. If you are a Christian you are in that family, and the process by which you were placed in that family is what the Word of God calls the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What does the Word say? “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” 1 Corinthians 12:13 In the Old Testament when the holy spirit came upon people It was to empower them for a particular purpose that God had in mind did them to accomplish. At least that's what I was taught. I think I'll do a deep dive on that right now. More iron sharpens iron. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 13, 2022 16:49:57 GMT -8
Awesome Theophilus. I will probably end up accepting your view of Ezek 37. Thank you for making the thread. I enjoyed studying it out. It was that iron sharpening iron thing. I had this preached to me years ago, so I sort of had an idea of where I was going with it. I still have to review Ezek 36 and 38 but I think its going to prove to be a nice piece of the puzzle. |
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Post by Theophilus on Sept 13, 2022 16:50:26 GMT -8
In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came “upon” a person and briefly empowered individuals. The first time we are told the Holy Spirit was involved with a person occurs when He enables Bezalel to be a skilled craftsman for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:3).
I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship . . . Exodus 31:3 (NASB)
This is the first time in scripture that we are told the Holy Spirit filled any person but notice that Bezalel was filled with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
In Numbers 11:17, 25-26, 29 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon Moses and a portion of the Spirit was taken from Moses and placed upon the seventy elders who ministered with him. In Numbers 24:1-4 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon a false prophet called Balaam (2 Peter 2:15 and Revelation 2:14). In Numbers 27:18-19 we are told that the Holy Spirit empowered Joshua in some way. The specifics are uncertain since the Hebrew word, be, for “in” has a very wide range of meaning. But the important point is that all of these individuals were temporarily empowered by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit did not permanently dwell in them.
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 13, 2022 17:55:02 GMT -8
In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came “upon” a person and briefly empowered individuals. The first time we are told the Holy Spirit was involved with a person occurs when He enables Bezalel to be a skilled craftsman for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:3). I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship . . . Exodus 31:3 (NASB) This is the first time in scripture that we are told the Holy Spirit filled any person but notice that Bezalel was filled with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. In Numbers 11:17, 25-26, 29 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon Moses and a portion of the Spirit was taken from Moses and placed upon the seventy elders who ministered with him. In Numbers 24:1-4 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon a false prophet called Balaam (2 Peter 2:15 and Revelation 2:14). In Numbers 27:18-19 we are told that the Holy Spirit empowered Joshua in some way. The specifics are uncertain since the Hebrew word, be, for “in” has a very wide range of meaning. But the important point is that all of these individuals were temporarily empowered by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit did not permanently dwell in them. I knew people had the Holy Spirit, but I never considered that passage in Ezekial 37 to be literal. I thought of it as a metophorical prophecy of the restoration of Israel that is predicted later in that chapter. If your assertion is correct, then Ezekial 37 is refering to the First Resurrection. And the answer to my question is that the Old Testament dead will apparently be filled with Gods Spirit immediatly before the ressurrection. Now in my opinion, if all of that is true then by implication the purpose of being sealed is to preserve and protect our salvation in this life since the Old Testament dead do not recieve the spirit until the resurrection time approaches. I hope that makes sense to you. |
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Post by gomer on Sept 14, 2022 4:54:25 GMT -8
You can`t even get saved until you receive the Spirit Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the imperceptible work of God by which the believing sinner is placed by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ at the very moment of his conversion. ---If baptism with the HS is imperceptible, then how can anyone know with any certainty they have even been baptized with the HS? ---where in the Bible does it say men today have been commanded to be baptized with the HS or that baptism with the HS saves? ---how does God determine who He will or will not baptize with the HS? Is God a respecter of persons in baptizing some and not others? Since God only controls who is and is not baptized with the HS, how can God not be culpable for the unbaptized? ---many, many examples given in the NT of the conversion of men where those men were NOT baptized with the HS. Were they all lost while thinking they were saved? Case in point, the eunuch was water baptized and then went on his way rejoicing. He was not baptized with the HS therefore supposedly lost having not received baptism with the HS but yet went on his way rejoicing thinking he was saved when he was really lost. |
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Post by Theophilus on Sept 14, 2022 5:02:57 GMT -8
In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came “upon” a person and briefly empowered individuals. The first time we are told the Holy Spirit was involved with a person occurs when He enables Bezalel to be a skilled craftsman for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:3). I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship . . . Exodus 31:3 (NASB) This is the first time in scripture that we are told the Holy Spirit filled any person but notice that Bezalel was filled with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. In Numbers 11:17, 25-26, 29 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon Moses and a portion of the Spirit was taken from Moses and placed upon the seventy elders who ministered with him. In Numbers 24:1-4 we discover that the Holy Spirit was upon a false prophet called Balaam (2 Peter 2:15 and Revelation 2:14). In Numbers 27:18-19 we are told that the Holy Spirit empowered Joshua in some way. The specifics are uncertain since the Hebrew word, be, for “in” has a very wide range of meaning. But the important point is that all of these individuals were temporarily empowered by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit did not permanently dwell in them. I knew people had the Holy Spirit, but I never considered that passage in Ezekial 37 to be literal. I thought of it as a metophorical prophecy of the restoration of Israel that is predicted later in that chapter. If your assertion is correct, then Ezekial 37 is refering to the First Resurrection. And the answer to my question is that the Old Testament dead will apparently be filled with Gods Spirit immediatly before the ressurrection. Now in my opinion, if all of that is true then by implication the purpose of being sealed is to preserve and protect our salvation in this life since the Old Testament dead do not recieve the spirit until the resurrection time approaches. I hope that makes sense to you. This would make sense to me. This is actually very interesting stuff. It's amazing how it all fits in and ties together. God’s plan for the future is an Incredibles study. I plan on studying "The parable of the budding fig tree" today. I believe we are seeing end time prophecy unfold before our eyes. And Jesus Christ is at the center of end times Bible prophecy. So it's right up my alley. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 14, 2022 5:43:03 GMT -8
I knew people had the Holy Spirit, but I never considered that passage in Ezekial 37 to be literal. I thought of it as a metophorical prophecy of the restoration of Israel that is predicted later in that chapter. If your assertion is correct, then Ezekial 37 is refering to the First Resurrection. And the answer to my question is that the Old Testament dead will apparently be filled with Gods Spirit immediatly before the ressurrection. Now in my opinion, if all of that is true then by implication the purpose of being sealed is to preserve and protect our salvation in this life since the Old Testament dead do not recieve the spirit until the resurrection time approaches. I hope that makes sense to you. This would make sense to me. This is actually very interesting stuff. It's amazing how it all fits in and ties together. God’s plan for the future is an Incredibles study. I plan on studying "The parable of the budding fig tree" today. I believe we are seeing end time prophecy unfold before our eyes. And Jesus Christ is at the center of end times Bible prophecy. So it's right up my alley. I did some research on the passage last night. Scholars have a divided opinion on whether it's literal or metaphor. I`m leaning toward considering it a double meaning at this point. |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Sept 14, 2022 19:25:53 GMT -8
You can`t even get saved until you receive the Spirit Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Christians that insist in still water baptizing are failing to see in the Bible, that in the very beginning of the church age Peter continued doing as he always had done before the church age began.
It took Peter to the 11th chapter of Acts to finally have it sink in, as seen here.
“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will
be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who
believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?” Acts 11:15-17
Jesus had told Peter that Spirit baptism would replace water
baptism. That was told to Peter in Acts 1:5.
It took all that time till chapter 11 for Peter (who had been distracted by all the excitement) to finally recall what Jesus had said way back in Acts 1:5.
Peter finally had recall and remembered what Jesus had told him earlier.....
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not
leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard
me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized
with the Holy Spirit.”
People who insist upon water baptism for today are without knowing it? Are doing a reenactment of Peter's mistake! 
Its scary to see how we do not see.
grace and peace .......
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Post by gomer on Sept 15, 2022 5:51:17 GMT -8
You can`t even get saved until you receive the Spirit Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
People who insist upon water baptism for today are without knowing it? Are doing a reenactment of Peter's mistake!
Peter, an INSPIRED Apostle, made a mistake?  ? The Holy Spirit Who inspired Bible writers as Peter made a mistake? Did the Holy Spirit make another mistake in Acts 10:47-48 in commanding Gentiles to be water baptized??? Was a mistake made by the Spirit in Acts 8 in sending for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch? ?? If the Holy Spirit makes mistakes, how can we ever trust anything the Bible says? Or is the mistake on the part of man trying to change what the Holy Spirit says in His word? YES! |
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Post by civic on Sept 15, 2022 6:00:30 GMT -8
We know its not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, |
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Post by gomer on Sept 15, 2022 7:35:15 GMT -8
We know its not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, Hi, ---If it reaches a point where one has to claim the Bible/inspiration has mistakes/errors in order to promote a theological bias, then it's past time for one to rethink those biases. Peter, by inspiration. commanded water baptism in Acts 2:38 and that same Peter inspired by the same one HS commanded that same, exact one water baptism in Acts 10:47-48 for Jews (Acts 2) and Gentiles (Acts 10) are saved in "like manner way" (Acts 15:11) that being water baptism for God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves men. ---Paul DID water baptized Crispus, Gaius, the household of Stephanas and possibly others (1 Cor 1:14-16) at Corinth. Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 22:16) and taught the necessity of water baptism (Rom 6:3-6; 1 Cor 1:13; Col 2:12-14; etc ) for Paul, as all disciples are under the great commission to go, teach, baptize (Matt 28:19-20; Mk 16:15-16). Obviously some are reading an idea into 1 Cor 1:14 that is not in the verse. |
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genez
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Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Sept 15, 2022 8:14:54 GMT -8
People who insist upon water baptism for today are without knowing it? Are doing a reenactment of Peter's mistake!
Peter, an INSPIRED Apostle, made a mistake? ? The Holy Spirit Who inspired Bible writers as Peter made a mistake? Did the Holy Spirit make another mistake in Acts 10:47-48 in commanding Gentiles to be water baptized??? Was a mistake made by the Spirit in Acts 8 in sending for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch? ?? If the Holy Spirit makes mistakes, how can we ever trust anything the Bible says? Or is the mistake on the part of man trying to change what the Holy Spirit says in His word? YES!
Christianity began with Jews. Water baptism was a huge part of how the Jews thought prior to the Church age. It took a while for the apostles to learn the new ways of the new life in Christ, and unlearn the old ways.
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few
days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5
Peter did not recall those words until chapter 11.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized
with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Acts 11:16
Peter continued with the old ways he learned as a disciple of Christ having performed more water baptisms than even John the Baptist.
YES! Many today are not questioning as they should and fall into tradition rather than thinking with accurate understanding.
After continuing to water baptize as he always had, finally Peter saw the Light of the new life in Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit!
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genez
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Sept 15, 2022 8:16:58 GMT -8
Christianity began with Jews. Water baptism was a huge part of how the Jews thought prior to the Church age. It took a while for the apostles to learn the new ways of the new life in Christ, and unlearn the old ways.
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few
days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5
Peter did not recall those words until chapter 11.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized
with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Acts 11:16
Peter continued with the old ways he learned as a disciple of Christ having performed more water baptisms than even John the Baptist.
YES! Many today are not questioning as they should and fall into tradition rather than thinking with accurate understanding.
After continuing to water baptize as he always had, finally Peter saw the Light of the new life in Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit!
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Post by gomer on Sept 15, 2022 8:27:25 GMT -8
Peter, an INSPIRED Apostle, made a mistake? ? The Holy Spirit Who inspired Bible writers as Peter made a mistake? Did the Holy Spirit make another mistake in Acts 10:47-48 in commanding Gentiles to be water baptized??? Was a mistake made by the Spirit in Acts 8 in sending for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch? ?? If the Holy Spirit makes mistakes, how can we ever trust anything the Bible says? Or is the mistake on the part of man trying to change what the Holy Spirit says in His word? YES!
Keep in mind... That when Peter began? Not only was he a baby Christian. Christianity itself was in its infancy!
Baby Christians make a good number of mistakes in their thinking...... You never did?
God wanted those who have made mistakes to see that they are not alone with Peter's example.
That when first starting out as believers we will be wrong about certain things and need to be corrected.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,
rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so
that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped
for every good work." 1 Timothy 3:16-17
Humility = correctability.
I am not an inspired Apostle nor do I claim I never make mistakes. But to claim INSPIRATION Makes mistakes is something I don't claim. How do we know what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy wasn't full of mistakes? If Peter was mistaken in Acts 2, then those Jews were still lost for repentance and baptism did not remit their sins. The Lord evidently was mistaken in thinking they were saved by being baptized v47. Why would Peter and the HS commit the same mistake again in Acts 10:47-48 that happen about 7-10 year after Acts 2? Peter did not learn anything in 7-10 years? And Peter and the HS committed the same mistake again years later in 1 Peter 3:21 'baptism doth also now save us'. You're obviously making judgments about mistakes based upon your theological biases going as far as saying inspiration from God is a mistake because it does not fit your biases. |
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genez
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by genez on Sept 15, 2022 15:02:15 GMT -8
I am not an inspired Apostle nor do I claim I never make mistakes. But to claim INSPIRATION Makes mistakes is something I don't claim. How do we know what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy wasn't full of mistakes? If Peter was mistaken in Acts 2, then those Jews were still lost for repentance and baptism did not remit their sins. The Lord evidently was mistaken in thinking they were saved by being baptized v47. Why would Peter and the HS commit the same mistake again in Acts 10:47-48 that happen about 7-10 year after Acts 2? Peter did not learn anything in 7-10 years? And Peter and the HS committed the same mistake again years later in 1 Peter 3:21 'baptism doth also now save us'. You're obviously making judgments about mistakes based upon your theological biases going as far as saying inspiration from God is a mistake because it does not fit your biases. Peter did not write the book of Acts. Luke did. Luke was the one inspired about what he wrote. Luke included the mistakes Peter made. Paul also made some mistakes. For example.. Paul allowed himself to be talked into going back into the Temple to offer animal sacrifice for ritual that was under the Law. It almost got Paul taken home early (sin onto death) for returning under the Law of Moses. When Peter wrote, what he wrote was divinely inspired. When Paul wrote he was divinely inspired. It was divinely inspired Luke who recorded Peter and Paul's mistakes. grace and peace ........ |
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? The Holy Spirit Who inspired Bible writers as Peter made a mistake?
