Do Dispensationalists Take Things To Far?

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I have noticed when people will not look at the evidence given. and just use the strawman that it is not written word for word. That they usually can not counter the evidence. so they counter with the strawman.

Do you understand none of that is evidence?


Instead of saying, "Just because it does not say it word for word does not mean it is not true," trying first relying on what the scriptures do actually state. No, just because the Bible doesn't say something word for word doesn't make something not true, but it does not make it true, either. What people make the Bible say cannot contradict what it does acutally state word for word. 

Has the abomination of desolation taken place? Many think it has and can provide evidence to that effect AND do so by appealing to what the Bible does state word for word. Others do not think the AoD has occurred because they appeal to post hoc arguments and their view of history that does not state word for word the AoD occurred. 

Even if the AoD has not occurred it does not mean another temple of stone must be built because the temple God build is still standing. 


That is all you need to know. 

You might be one of them.  Will you look at the evidence? Will you do so looking first at the evidence of what is actually, plainly, explicitly stated word for word in scripture? 

Not an answer to the question asked. I did not ask what you have been doing. I asked what you're now willing to do. Will you look at the evidence? 

Again: I did NOT ask if you'd looked at the same evidence for the last 40 years. You should not assume nothing I say will be new to you. Neither should you assume you won't see something old in  a new way. 

You should just answer the question asked. Will you look at the evidence? 

Because what you are doing now is implying you will not look at the evidence because you believe you already have and your response is an ad hominem attack of me personally.
How about looking at the evidence with me? 



Are you willing to look at the evidence?

yes, People try to attack what they do not understand

That is a false cause argument, it is a misreading of scripture, and the New Testament tells us there is a continuity, not discontinuity, there not possible with Dispensationalism's views of dispensations. 

1. False cause: circumcision is not what makes a person an Israelite.
2. Circumcision was nothing more than a sign.
3. The Old Testament circumcision should never be understood apart from the newer revelation about circumcision God illuminated in the New Testament.
4. The New Testament provides a continuity pertaining to circumcision that is denied in Dispensationalism's handling of dispensations.

1) Yes, all males who accept Christ are to be circumcised. So too are all females accepting Christ. Furthermore, circumcision was not first given to Israel, and it is not circumcision that makes a person an Israelite. 

2) Circumcision of the flesh was merely a sign that followed inclusion into the covenant and that covenant was the one made with Abraham, not Israel. Israel did not exist when God instituted the sign of circumcision.

3) The New Testament tells us circumcision circumcision was unnecessary, and not only was it unnecessary, it would be come and element of the Law (like every other element of the Law) that would show them their sin, 

Romans 2:25-29

For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Furthermore, as far as dispensations go, if such things are being implied by scripture, the dispensation of Abraham is not the same as the dispensation of Moses and the Law. Two completely different dispensations. 


4) The New Testament tell us in many diverse ways there is a consistency and continuity from beginning to end. 

Romans 3:1-2

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.


Romans 4:9-18

Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness." How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written, "A father of many nations have I made you") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, "So shall your descendants be."

1 Corinthians 7:19

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.


Despite Paul saying, 

1 Corinthians 7:17-20

Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called,

he also wrote, 

Galatians 5:2-12

Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.


I trust Paul's ironic rhetoric of self-mutilation is not lost on the reader. The point is there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ and there never has been any distinction! The righteous have ALWAYS lived by faith. There is no dispensation, no difference in the way God interacts with humanity from age to age. For the one who is obedient it is as if he were circumcised.

Ephesians 2:11-16

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

There are NOT two different groups! Gentiles were once excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, but now the dividing wall no longer exists (despite Dispensationalism's teaching to the contrary), they have been brought near and are no longer far off, Jesus made both groups into one, he made the two one so by abolishing the enmity contained in the ordinances of the Law, reconciled them both in one body.


I cannot find the word "dispensation mentioned in the scriptural record pertaining to Abraham, nor circumcision, the establishment of the nation of Israel, nor that of the Church. I invite you to provide explicit statements from scripture explicitly stating the word, "dispensation". Absent that evidence I conclude the concept of dispensation has been abused and misused by Dispensationalists to make scripture say things it does not actually teach. 


Notice the promise to Abraham was many nations, not one. One aspect of a much larger promise that was part of a much larger covenant. One aspect that had a meager fulfillment in the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) that would become the nation of Israel, a much fuller fulfillment in Jesus (Israel), that continues to be fulfilled in Christ's body. Continuity, not discontinuity. A single covenant, not separate dispensations. Not once do the scriptures explicitly call it a dispensation. It is those who follow in the steps of faith, not the steps of genital mutilation who are the descendants of Abraham.... and that is the way it has always been! 

Philippians 3:2-3

Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh...,

And the exact same standard applies to Israel, the Church, and every other human on the planet. 

Colossians 2:8-14

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

That very same cross will either save or condemn. That is the way it has always been; it is not something particular or specific of a new, separate, and different dispensation. Before Calvary occurred, this was the measure: 

John 3:18-19

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

That was not written to the Church. Neither was it written about the Church. It applies to all people, whether Jew or not-Jew. 



Dispensationalism takes things too far. It teaches its adherents to read scripture literally, but it is woefully inconsistent doing so and the tendency is to take the Old Testament literally and not the New Testament's commentary on the Old Testament. If what Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is read literally then Dispensationalism's teachings are incorrect. Scripture itself draws a direct line from Old Testament circumcision of the flesh to New Testament circumcision of the heart. 

Deuteronomy 10:14-16

Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. So circumcise your heart and stiffen your neck no longer....

Deuteronomy 30:6

"Moreover, the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

 
Jeremiah 4:3-4

For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and to Jerusalem, "Break up your fallow ground, And do not sow among thorns. "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart..."

Romans 2:28-29

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


No distinction. 



But..... if someone would provide me with scripture that actually calls these things "dispensations," then I will reconsider my position in light of those scriptures. Absent that evidence it becomes clear the Dispensationalists take things too far and unnecessarily make too much out of the word "oikonomia". Sadly, those teachings have adverse effect on all Christians.