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Post by praiseyeshua on Jun 24, 2023 10:58:27 GMT -8
Motive.......
It is a glarrying issue in Calvinism. When you starting talking through the "WHY's" of existence, all you ever get out of Calvinism is "The Good Pleasure of His Will".....
However, as we know from the Scripture.... God cares about the WHY of humanity. The autonomous actions human matter to God. The Scriptures prove it....
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
The Scriptures are given to discern "motives" within humanity.....
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive, effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, cutting to the point of dividing soul and spirit, joints from marrows, astutely judging the thoughts and intents of our human heart.
Isn't everyone tired of Calvinists pretend everything happens based upon the "motive" of "God's Good Pleasure".....
Our God is too GOOD...... to be that evil.
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Post by Bronson on Jun 24, 2023 12:53:10 GMT -8
praiseyeshuaGod's way is always better, man comes up with some way-out Cultic Theologies, but Jesus left His holy spirit show us the truth. I'm grateful that there are people around that stand up for the truth. And it's just amazes me how well-educated theologians that are great preachers can fall for Calvinism.
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Post by forgiven on Jun 24, 2023 13:22:09 GMT -8
praiseyeshua God's way is always better, man comes up with some way-out Cultic Theologies, but Jesus left His holy spirit show us the truth. I'm grateful that there are people around that stand up for the truth. And it's just amazes me how well-educated theologians that are great preachers can fall for Calvinism. Calvinism. is sooooooooooooo complicated they use the words irresistible Grace i ask for scripture i get no place. i tell them i am just as saved as they are then give my testimony how God spoke to me in a revival service saying now or never. they say you never heard God.. i left a forum that was Calvinist based before coming here , reminds me of a church i was pastor of. mentioned communion and foot washing... you would have thought foot washing was a filthy word. Calvinist have been taught well to defend the doctrine. it sounds appealing but if examined close. its a rather complicated doctrine |
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Post by praiseyeshua on Jun 24, 2023 17:12:57 GMT -8
praiseyeshua God's way is always better, man comes up with some way-out Cultic Theologies, but Jesus left His holy spirit show us the truth. I'm grateful that there are people around that stand up for the truth. And it's just amazes me how well-educated theologians that are great preachers can fall for Calvinism. Calvinism. is sooooooooooooo complicated they use the words irresistible Grace i ask for scripture i get no place. i tell them i am just as saved as they are then give my testimony how God spoke to me in a revival service saying now or never. they say you never heard God.. i left a forum that was Calvinist based before coming here , reminds me of a church i was pastor of. mentioned communion and foot washing... you would have thought foot washing was a filthy word. Calvinist have been taught well to defend the doctrine. it sounds appealing but if examined close. its a rather complicated doctrine It might seem complicated but many Calvinists refuse to engage at any meaningful level. Much of the teaching is rooted in the " praise of men". They pretend God is Glorified by the such doctrine but there is no glory to be found in claiming "God chose ME...." Which is nonsense......God chose His Son. |
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Post by forgiven on Jun 24, 2023 18:08:50 GMT -8
Calvinism. is sooooooooooooo complicated they use the words irresistible Grace i ask for scripture i get no place. i tell them i am just as saved as they are then give my testimony how God spoke to me in a revival service saying now or never. they say you never heard God.. i left a forum that was Calvinist based before coming here , reminds me of a church i was pastor of. mentioned communion and foot washing... you would have thought foot washing was a filthy word. Calvinist have been taught well to defend the doctrine. it sounds appealing but if examined close. its a rather complicated doctrine It might seem complicated but many Calvinists refuse to engage at any meaningful level. Much of the teaching is rooted in the " praise of men". They pretend God is Glorified by the such doctrine but there is not glory to be found in claiming "God chose ME...." Which is nonsense......God chose His Son. my only objection to discussing Calvinism. every thing you post is wrong. years ago i was in carm i got called on the carpet several time |
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Post by praiseyeshua on Jun 24, 2023 18:37:02 GMT -8
It might seem complicated but many Calvinists refuse to engage at any meaningful level. Much of the teaching is rooted in the " praise of men". They pretend God is Glorified by the such doctrine but there is not glory to be found in claiming "God chose ME...." Which is nonsense......God chose His Son. my only objection to discussing Calvinism. every thing you post is wrong. years ago i was in carm i got called on the carpet several time Everything? There is no reason for you to be subordinate to anyone. We are all equals, brothers and sisters in Adam. Some Calvinists enjoys the "power" they wield over others... Do you fear them? |
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Post by forgiven on Jun 24, 2023 18:45:10 GMT -8
my only objection to discussing Calvinism. every thing you post is wrong. years ago i was in carm i got called on the carpet several time Everything? There is no reason for you to be subordinate to anyone. We are all equals, brothers and sisters in Adam. Some Calvinists enjoys the "power" they wield over others... Do you fear them? DO i /ME fear them? not in the least who is being subordinate i am not equal with j.w or Mormons nor catholics their teaching is not bible based |
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Post by praiseyeshua on Jun 24, 2023 18:55:27 GMT -8
Everything? There is no reason for you to be subordinate to anyone. We are all equals, brothers and sisters in Adam. Some Calvinists enjoys the "power" they wield over others... Do you fear them? DO i /ME fear them? not in the least who is being subordinate i am not equal with j.w or Mormons nor catholics their teaching is not bible based I misread what you wrote. Sorry. I thought you were saying everything I said was wrong..... Thanks |
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Post by atpollard on Jul 3, 2023 9:36:31 GMT -8
Motive....... It is a glarrying issue in Calvinism. When you starting talking through the "WHY's" of existence, all you ever get out of Calvinism is "The Good Pleasure of His Will"..... Forgive me if I approach such questions from a bit different perspective, but let's just pretend for a moment that we all (every person without exception) have libertine FREE WILL (we can do good or evil free of any outside influences at all - we are morally neutral free agents) and Jesus died to present us with an offer we are free to accept or reject (and God will not interfere with our choice):
What is the ARMINIAN reason for the WHY of Human existence?
I was born to "submarine Christian" Grandparents (surface twice a year for Christmas and Easter) and an Atheist Father and non-practicing RCC Mother. So these are the lessons on the "MEANING OF LIFE" that I grew up with:
- Religion is the opiate of the masses. It is how those WITH prevent those WITHOUT from rioting in the streets. It exists to tell people without hope not to worry about how bad things are in this life because after you die, everything good will magically come to you. If you told the people the truth that this is all there is and all they get, they would stop accepting crumbs while the top 1% consume 90% of everything and demand a 'fair share'. Notice the Priests all live in big homes and drive big cars while collecting dollars from widows on Social Security?
- The person that dies with the most toys, wins. If winning didn't matter, then why do they keep score? Who is the world's SECOND fastest runner? Who was Third Place in the last presidential Election?
- You are born cold, wet and naked ... and things go downhill from there. Ecclesiastes says that "All is vanity" ... translation: NOTHING really matters. On the street we said "You live you die and you don't even leave a hole behind to show you were here."
So let's talk about the "Meaning of Life" experientially. We have all lived and encountered certain things. It has a fancy name, but the most common name is "THE PROBLEM OF EVIL":
- Children suffer abuse. What is the "meaning"?
- People struggle with cancer? A long, slow fight full of ups and downs that ALWAYS ends in death ... often a painful death. The "meaning"?
- Broken families: cheating spouse, divorce, abuse, children, fighting ... The "meaning" of it all?
- Illness that forces people to make impossible choices. Food or medicine? Home or surgery? Live or die, the result is often a bill that can NEVER be paid. What is the "meaning"?
- There is NOTHING more unnatural than a parent burying their child. Meaning?
- To love someone trapped in mental illness? Depression? Suicide? What is the "MEANING" of it all?
- Less we forget that all of LIFE is not bad ... to hold your first child in your arms for the first time and suddenly realize that even if it feels like you are "playing house", now you are a parent and LIFE just got REAL! Does THAT have any "meaning"?
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Post by praiseyeshua on Jul 3, 2023 13:39:37 GMT -8
Motive....... It is a glarrying issue in Calvinism. When you starting talking through the "WHY's" of existence, all you ever get out of Calvinism is "The Good Pleasure of His Will"..... Forgive me if I approach such questions from a bit different perspective, but let's just pretend for a moment that we all (every person without exception) have libertine FREE WILL (we can do good or evil free of any outside influences at all - we are morally neutral free agents) and Jesus died to present us with an offer we are free to accept or reject (and God will not interfere with our choice):
What is the ARMINIAN reason for the WHY of Human existence?
I was born to "submarine Christian" Grandparents (surface twice a year for Christmas and Easter) and an Atheist Father and non-practicing RCC Mother. So these are the lessons on the "MEANING OF LIFE" that I grew up with:
- Religion is the opiate of the masses. It is how those WITH prevent those WITHOUT from rioting in the streets. It exists to tell people without hope not to worry about how bad things are in this life because after you die, everything good will magically come to you. If you told the people the truth that this is all there is and all they get, they would stop accepting crumbs while the top 1% consume 90% of everything and demand a 'fair share'. Notice the Priests all live in big homes and drive big cars while collecting dollars from widows on Social Security?
- The person that dies with the most toys, wins. If winning didn't matter, then why do they keep score? Who is the world's SECOND fastest runner? Who was Third Place in the last presidential Election?
- You are born cold, wet and naked ... and things go downhill from there. Ecclesiastes says that "All is vanity" ... translation: NOTHING really matters. On the street we said "You live you die and you don't even leave a hole behind to show you were here."
So let's talk about the "Meaning of Life" experientially. We have all lived and encountered certain things. It has a fancy name, but the most common name is "THE PROBLEM OF EVIL":
- Children suffer abuse. What is the "meaning"?
- People struggle with cancer? A long, slow fight full of ups and downs that ALWAYS ends in death ... often a painful death. The "meaning"?
- Broken families: cheating spouse, divorce, abuse, children, fighting ... The "meaning" of it all?
- Illness that forces people to make impossible choices. Food or medicine? Home or surgery? Live or die, the result is often a bill that can NEVER be paid. What is the "meaning"?
- There is NOTHING more unnatural than a parent burying their child. Meaning?
- To love someone trapped in mental illness? Depression? Suicide? What is the "MEANING" of it all?
- Less we forget that all of LIFE is not bad ... to hold your first child in your arms for the first time and suddenly realize that even if it feels like you are "playing house", now you are a parent and LIFE just got REAL! Does THAT have any "meaning"?
I'm not an Arminian. I'm more Calvinist that Arminian. I have 3 or 4 primary issues with the teaching of Calvinism. The meaning of life..... I call it the "God experience". We get to pretend we are God in our own little limited world. We are blessed with good things but the challenges come in how we handle such. How we love. What we chose to do with our lives..... God purpose in humanity was to create a "man" in His own image and after His own likeness..... Who would CHOOSE the good and LOVE like He loves. |
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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 4:20:40 GMT -8
It might seem complicated but many Calvinists refuse to engage at any meaningful level. Much of the teaching is rooted in the " praise of men". They pretend God is Glorified by the such doctrine but there is not glory to be found in claiming "God chose ME...." Which is nonsense......God chose His Son. my only objection to discussing Calvinism. every thing you post is wrong. years ago i was in carm i got called on the carpet several time yes online calvinists who have forums are very controlling even with the narrative. they edit posts they don't like that oppose their views and expose their doctrines. I've experienced it first hand. One recently said I was not welcomed if I discussed PSA- the Penal Substitution Theory of the Atonement. The reason why is it exposes how wrong they are with who God is by His nature. When you questions their beliefs and challenge them with scripture to prove it and they are admin/moderators they edit your posts and will ban you. I have known plenty of people this happens to and they call it " discord " .
Well guess what discord is defined as :
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) Lack of agreement; absence of unity or harmony in sentiment or action; variance leading to contention and strife; disagreement; -- applied to persons or to things, and to thoughts, feelings, or purposes.
2. (v. i.) Union of musical sounds which strikes the ear harshly or disagreeably, owing to the incommensurability of the vibrations which they produce; want of musical concord or harmony; a chord demanding resolution into a concord.
3. (n.) To disagree; to be discordant; to jar; to clash; not to suit.
So by definition a Calvinist and a non Calvinist disagree at the very core with TULIP- called the doctrines of grace by Calvinists. They are not united and agree but disagree.
An online forum is actually designed to debate and disagree and give the reasons why you oppose the other persons views. So its hypocritical to ban or edit someone's post for disagreeing with them doctrinally/theologically about anything in Scripture.
The only time anyone here will have their post edited or possibly get a warning or worse banned is if and when they continually insult or treat another person badly.
Anyone and everyone can disagree with everything I say/teach on this forum just be nice about it and don't make fun in me while you are disagreeing. The same goes with me. I can disagree with with anyone here and make my case against their beliefs. I will respect them , not insult them ans state why biblically, morally or ethically I cannot agree with them on a topic or issue they bring up.
The main reason this forum was created was because of online censorship and the bias some other forums have with the members who disagree with their theology and are being treated with a bias and are unfair. I've seen people rudely gang up on a person and mock them and the " leadership " on the forum is ok with such disgusting behavior.
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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 6:50:30 GMT -8
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Post by papalandshark on Jul 4, 2023 8:11:40 GMT -8
I'm a Calvinist and I have serious trouble with my brethren but not for the issues discussed here. There are certain traditions that the mainstream Calvinist folk hold too for dear life that make no sense at all. Quick example would be Amillennialism. On it's face there is a huge problem with it simply based on stealing it whole cloth from the RCC. It was one of the first things that caused me to start examining long held "traditions" and the reasons for them. I don't care for recreating the wheel but for the love of Mike at least examine anything you import with the same zeal you press to other topics.
I appreciate your stance on free speech, Civic. As we discussed privately you have a tough row to hoe with that but thanks for putting it out there.
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Post by civic on Jul 11, 2023 14:05:08 GMT -8
Motive....... It is a glarrying issue in Calvinism. When you starting talking through the "WHY's" of existence, all you ever get out of Calvinism is "The Good Pleasure of His Will"..... However, as we know from the Scripture.... God cares about the WHY of humanity. The autonomous actions human matter to God. The Scriptures prove it.... 1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. The Scriptures are given to discern "motives" within humanity..... Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive, effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, cutting to the point of dividing soul and spirit, joints from marrows, astutely judging the thoughts and intents of our human heart. Isn't everyone tired of Calvinists pretend everything happens based upon the "motive" of "God's Good Pleasure"..... Our God is too GOOD...... to be that evil. You nailed it as Gods nature and character is not like it is portrayed by calvinism. |
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Post by atpollard on Jul 12, 2023 9:25:26 GMT -8
Motive....... It is a glarrying issue in Calvinism. When you starting talking through the "WHY's" of existence, all you ever get out of Calvinism is "The Good Pleasure of His Will"..... However, as we know from the Scripture.... God cares about the WHY of humanity. The autonomous actions human matter to God. The Scriptures prove it.... 1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. The Scriptures are given to discern "motives" within humanity..... Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive, effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, cutting to the point of dividing soul and spirit, joints from marrows, astutely judging the thoughts and intents of our human heart. Isn't everyone tired of Calvinists pretend everything happens based upon the "motive" of "God's Good Pleasure"..... Our God is too GOOD...... to be that evil. You nailed it as Gods nature and character is not like it is portrayed by calvinism. So, No Omnipotent God who works all things "according to the good pleasure of His will". Our god is like the gold-covered idols of ancient Rome ... mute, dead, impotent ... waiting for MEN to be the change that we desire! [Is that what you meant?]  |
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