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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 11:46:58 GMT -8
Forgive the multiple quote. I am in the process of learning this format as opposed to other forum formats. And I don't like it. It makes everything too hard to follow. That aside: Although I agree that much of what you say does happen, and it is bad news, that does not make the discipline of apologetics a bad thing, and it does not mean that it is not prudent for a Christian to engage in it. Rather it is the product of not having the truths of the Bible presented to them from the pulpit to the flock by the shepherd of that flock. Probably because he doesn't engage in it himself in preparation for his office. Therefore people often do not engage in it themselves or even know what it is or how to prepare oneself to do it. In summary, apologetics is knowing what you believe, why you believe it (the basis being what is told us in scripture), and being able to articulate it in a loving way. In this, whatever is said must be consistent with what is said in the whole counsel of God, not through isolating scriptures used as "proof texts." Thanks for your post Ariel.
I was surprised to get your reply. This topic was launched a long time ago.
To be clear, I see some value in apologetics, but we need to confirm them with our own study.
Oftentimes new believers learn apologetics by rote with no concern for what they are ingesting.
We are WAY too gullible.
Here's a response to your third paragraph. Interesting that we need to be taught what we believe. How is that different from brainwashing?
There is even a book titled: Know What You Believe
Say what?
We need to understand that we are trusting someone else to reveal "God's truth"
to us when we learn our apologetics from them. They typically provide their own view
without giving us comparatives to choose from.
I would challenge new believers, and old ones, to ask for the rebuttals to what they are learning.
Then you can decide for yourself what resonates with you.
Changing a doctrinal position does not make you an unbeliever. It makes you a mature believer.
Excellent book |
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Post by forgiven on Jul 4, 2023 11:55:43 GMT -8
forgiven What led me to study apologetics was I just couldn't figure out how people Could fall for the various cults. Like Jim Jones and David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate. So I got deep into studying God's Word. The Truth will set you free. The LIE will keep you in bondage or worse. Since the Bible is God's Word, studying it is a way to know God better. Through His words we come to know not only the nature and attributes of God, but we also come to understand His plan for each of us. In a larger sense, we also come to know God's plan in history, His sovereignty, His providence, His love and more. There is only so much we can learn about God apart from the Bible. But with it we can know God better. Studying the Bible also helps us avoid theological error. The Bible tells us, "Watch your life and doctrine closely" 1 Timothy 4:16, adding that we "must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine." Titus 2:1 If the Bible is our authority for faith and life, then the inspired words it contains will help us to avoid error. In a fallen world with many religious and non-religious ideas competing for attention, studying the Bible provides us with a firm foundation in God's truth rather than the errors of the world. Knowing the Bible also helps us respond to error and answer questions that skeptics and others may have about it. Studying god's word will help you develop good discernment about everything. { I just couldn't figure out how people Could fall for the various cults. Like Jim Jones and David Koresh, Heaven’s Gate.} have you figured it out other than they was blinded i dont understand it either . a shocker while back a lady we knew was very much southern Baptist when she passed a way i read her obituary she had converted to J.W while i am not SB but i do consider them to be pretty sound in the Bible. to go to J.W in fact they did the funeral her daughter allowed it. might been mom last wishes i dont know.. but i could not have allowed them to do the service . my question is why |
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Post by forgiven on Jul 4, 2023 11:58:51 GMT -8
for me in my early years apologetics, context threw me off the words i had no idea what they meant . i see post where they use big words i keep it on a level of understanding kiss keep it simple stupid ----> ME
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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 12:06:37 GMT -8
for me in my early years apologetics, context threw me off the words i had no idea what they meant . i see post where they use big words i keep it on a level of understanding kiss keep it simple stupid ----> ME Agreed if our “ theology “ is not practical and simple we are missing the whole point and it’s just a mental exercise in futility . Knowledge applied is wisdom . It’s not how much we know it’s what are we doing with what we know that’s most important, it’s application to our life. How we think about God has a direct influence with our behavior and demeanor. |
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arial
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by arial on Jul 4, 2023 12:16:16 GMT -8
I do all those things Evensteven. More accurately I have learned to do all these things. It takes time. We have to learn. There is nothing wrong with being taught what is the truth in the Bible and what is in the Bible IS what we are to believe---or bear the natural consequences of not believing it. Even though there is such a thing as brainwashing, not everything is brainwashing. Brainwashing pertains to being moved by whatever pressures are applied or manipulations that are used, into believing what is not true, through tactics.
For example I did not begin with Reformed theology or Calvinism if you prefer, but on the other side of that fence. And I do not think which side of that particular fence one is on determines whether a person is saved. Belief in the person and work of Jesus as given in scriptures is the determining factor. But I had to learn what that theology taught and its origins from those who have gone before me. Then I took what they said and checked it against scripture. I have come to a place where it is easy for me to do from scripture alone. Because I am familiar with them as almost a second nature. That takes time and diligence. I check myself against the scriptures.
To be honest it wasn't until I began studying Reformed theology that apologetics even became a thing to me. And that is because, say what one will about it, it does arrive at its doctrines through systematic study of the scriptures and keeps itself as consistent in what is taught as does the Bible itself.
It is truly shameful that a great many to not do the work of truly learning the word by studying the word, and instead just do believe what they hear or see or read because it sounds right and because actual scriptures are used to support whatever false teaching is being put forth. IOW much of Christ's church are forever babies.
But that is no reason to make an argument that because everyone says that what they believe is the truth, as though absolute truth is unknowable therefore nothing should be taught as absolute truth, or considered as such, that it does not remain the duty of all Christian's and all shepherds over flocks, is not to apply proper apologetics to whatever it is they say. And no one should stand in a pulpit until he is qualified to do so.
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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 12:20:44 GMT -8
I do all those things Evensteven. More accurately I have learned to do all these things. It takes time. We have to learn. There is nothing wrong with being taught what is the truth in the Bible and what is in the Bible IS what we are to believe---or bear the natural consequences of not believing it. Even though there is such a thing as brainwashing, not everything is brainwashing. Brainwashing pertains to being moved by whatever pressures are applied or manipulations that are used, into believing what is not true, through tactics. For example I did not begin with Reformed theology or Calvinism if you prefer, but on the other side of that fence. And I do not think which side of that particular fence one is on determines whether a person is saved. Belief in the person and work of Jesus as given in scriptures is the determining factor. But I had to learn what that theology taught and its origins from those who have gone before me. Then I took what they said and checked it against scripture. I have come to a place where it is easy for me to do from scripture alone. Because I am familiar with them as almost a second nature. That takes time and diligence. I check myself against the scriptures. To be honest it wasn't until I began studying Reformed theology that apologetics even became a thing to me. And that is because, say what one will about it, it does arrive at its doctrines through systematic study of the scriptures and keeps itself as consistent in what is taught as does the Bible itself. It is truly shameful that a great many to not do the work of truly learning the word by studying the word, and instead just do believe what they hear or see or read because it sounds right and because actual scriptures are used to support whatever false teaching is being put forth. IOW much of Christ's church are forever babies. But that is no reason to make an argument that because everyone says that what they believe is the truth, as though absolute truth is unknowable therefore nothing should be taught as absolute truth, or considered as such, that it does not remain the duty of all Christian's and all shepherds over flocks, is not to apply proper apologetics to whatever it is they say. And no one should stand in a pulpit until he is qualified to do so. Thanks for sharing and I know we will have some good discussions even though we will disagree on some things doctrinally . But your above point about the Person and work of Christ is spot on. It’s all about Him. |
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Post by forgiven on Jul 4, 2023 12:22:03 GMT -8
for me in my early years apologetics, context threw me off the words i had no idea what they meant . i see post where they use big words i keep it on a level of understanding kiss keep it simple stupid ----> ME Agreed if our “ theology “ is not practical and simple we are missing the whole point and it’s just a mental exercise in futility . Knowledge applied is wisdom . It’s not how much we know it’s what are we doing with what we know that’s most important, it’s application to our life. How we think about God has a direct influence with our behavior and demeanor. i enjoy listening to Adrian rogers held a doctorate degree but he never let his education get in front of his message. [ It’s not how much we know it’s what are we doing with what we know that’s most important, ] agreed |
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Post by civic on Jul 4, 2023 12:25:29 GMT -8
Agreed if our “ theology “ is not practical and simple we are missing the whole point and it’s just a mental exercise in futility . Knowledge applied is wisdom . It’s not how much we know it’s what are we doing with what we know that’s most important, it’s application to our life. How we think about God has a direct influence with our behavior and demeanor. i enjoy listening to Adrian rogers held a doctorate degree but he never let his education get in front of his message. [ It’s not how much we know it’s what are we doing with what we know that’s most important, ] agreed He is one of my favorite preachers / teachers |
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