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Post by Obadiah on Aug 13, 2022 9:40:41 GMT -8
No, I don't think God is the author of evil. I think that's what we do when we disobey him. That is a good way of looking at it especially if it motivates one to be obedient. Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient.” Exodus 24:7 |
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glory to the Lord .
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Post by glory to the Lord . on Aug 13, 2022 10:24:32 GMT -8
Self—centeredness has always been, and always will be, humanity's biggest idol. Therein lies the truth my friend . This will show us all something very simple . I will ask us two simple questions . IS it evil for angels and mankind to desire self glory . The answer is A BIG OL FAT YES . IT is evil for us to desire that . BUT and this is one big ol but. IS IT EVIL FOR THE CREATOR TO DESIRE THIS . THE ANSWER IS A BIG FAT NO . GOD Does AS HE PLEASES and HE DESIRES all recognition and glory . Now , know and understand that GOD gave the angels and man free will . HE created man in his own image . Those desires are present in our flesh . AND let no man say WHY has thou made me thus , FOR the created cannot argue with the CREATOR . GOD also gave us the WAY OUT and the WAY by which we can worship HIM as HE desires . HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST . GOD does as HE does and HE has every right to DO as HE DOES . WE however have no right to glorify and honor ourselves and seek the glory of self . BUT GOD DOES . HOPE that helps . NOW we can see and understand why The scripture also said GOD made man UPRIGHT . HIS creation was GOOD . The fault lies not in GOD but in the created . ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT . GOD simply created the angels with free will as HE DID with man . A third of heaven fell and so did the first adam . BUT GOD was and is always in control . THERE is one way out of this fallen state , this fallen nature , AND it aint us , ITS JESUS CHRIST . SING this SONG till the last and final breath . |
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Post by glory to God on Aug 13, 2022 10:27:09 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. A lot of texts flat-out declare that God is not, and could not be, the author of evil. Like, Deuteronomy 32:4 declares that “his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. [He is] a faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” And Psalm 5:4 notes, “You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil.” So as we read the deeper into Bible it would seem that God is without evil or any pretense of evil. I learned as I was studying this out that Isaiah 45:7 refers to physical evil. As does Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?", this verse contrasts prosperity and adversity. So the good is physical goodness and happiness, while the evil is physical distress, misfortune, calamity and natural evil, such as storms, earthquakes and other disasters. Even though a lot of the physical evil in the world often comes through the hand of wicked men and women, ultimately God permits it. Like we see in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people". If the evil of the Holocaust had not happened, then the miracle of the Jewish people’s return to Israel in 1948 would not have happened. What we can be sure of, however, is the fact that God is never, ever, the originator and author of evil. It would be contrary to his whole nature and being as consistently revealed in Scripture. Christianity has more than answered the problem of the presence of evil (that's the message of the cross) and the problem of the outcome of evil (for Christ’s resurrection demonstrates that God can beat out even the last enemy and greatest evil, death itself). But Christianity’s most difficult question is the origin of evil. Why did God ever allow “this evil stuff” in the first place? To me this is the most interesting question to try to answer on this topic. Next question is as we look around the world today why is there so much evil? It's in the Bible. No, I don't think God is the author of evil. I think that's what we do when we disobey him. SPOT ON RIGHT . |
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TedT
Junior Member
...gruntled.
Posts: 57
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Post by TedT on Aug 13, 2022 14:53:47 GMT -8
I accept this. I believe this. Wholeheartedly. But I have yet to find anyone else who believes this who can tell me how GOD can then create mankind in Adam's sin so that they are corrupt, disgustingly evil and subject to suffering and death even before birth let alone before some age of accountability, that is, before they can ever make a free will choice to be evil in HIS sight. When I was a former calvinist this is how I would answer your question with scripture.
Mans Depravity
1)Man by nature is deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9)
2)Man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
3)Man loves darkness (John 3:19)
4)Man does not seek for God (Romans 3:10-12)
5)Man is ungodly (Romans 5:6)
6)Man is dead in his sins (Ephesians 2:1)
7)Man by nature is a child of wrath (Ephesians 2:3)
8)Man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14)
9)Man is a slave of sin (Romans 6:16-20)
10)Man is sinful at birth, sinful from the time of conception (Psalms 51:5)
11)Man is like a filthy rag his garments stained by sin and is unrighteous (Isaiah 64:6)
12)Man is hostile towards God and cannot submit to Him or His law (Romans 8:7)
13)Man cannot do good and is completely incapable of such an act (Romans 3:12)
14)Man is not born with faith so everything is done in sin (Romans 14:23)
15)Man has not one single thing that is good in him (Romans 7:18)
16)Man is born condemned (John 3:18)
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TedT
Junior Member
...gruntled.
Posts: 57
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Post by TedT on Aug 13, 2022 16:14:45 GMT -8
I accept this. I believe this. Wholeheartedly. But I have yet to find anyone else who believes this who can tell me how GOD can then create mankind in Adam's sin so that they are corrupt, disgustingly evil and subject to suffering and death even before birth let alone before some age of accountability, that is, before they can ever make a free will choice to be evil in HIS sight. When I was a former calvinist this is how I would answer your question with scripture.
Mans Depravity
I contend that only by a free will choice to rebel against GOD can anyone accrue sinfulness and judgment either to condemnation or to the necessity of harsh discipline.
AND, listing the natural and legal consequences of choosing to rebel against GOD's command does not PROVE that we, ie, mankind, were created in this way, evil and estranged from GOD when scripture asserts:
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.
Created in sin means unable to fulfill HIS purpose unless HE makes drastic changes upon you, ie it is not by your creation that you can fulfill HIS purpose, attest HIS glory nor praise HIM in truth but only by grace.
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Post by makesends on Aug 14, 2022 6:56:08 GMT -8
When I was a former calvinist this is how I would answer your question with scripture.
Mans Depravity
I contend that only by a free will choice to rebel against GOD can anyone accrue sinfulness and judgment either to condemnation or to the necessity of harsh discipline.
AND, listing the natural and legal consequences of choosing to rebel against GOD's command does not PROVE that we, ie, mankind, were created in this way, evil and estranged from GOD when scripture asserts:
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.
Created in sin means unable to fulfill HIS purpose unless HE makes drastic changes upon you, ie it is not by your creation that you can fulfill HIS purpose, attest HIS glory nor praise HIM in truth but only by grace.
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I agree that God does not create people as evil. It is by inheritance, perhaps even genetic inheritance, that they are by nature sinners, and by God's imputation upon us of Adam's sin guilt. —NOT as created. —Makesends, aka Mark Quayle (CF) |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 14, 2022 8:37:02 GMT -8
When the Bible talks about God creating evil it is talking about evil in the sense of calamities, natural disasters and other things of that nature. God does not create the evil deeds of his creatures, those things are the collattoral damage caused by freewill.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 8:42:46 GMT -8
Agreed, Rick.
Judgment is described as a necessary evil.
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49 
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Post by 101G on Aug 14, 2022 9:03:01 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. A lot of texts flat-out declare that God is not, and could not be, the author of evil. Like, Deuteronomy 32:4 declares that “his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. [He is] a faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” And Psalm 5:4 notes, “You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil.” So as we read the deeper into Bible it would seem that God is without evil or any pretense of evil. I learned as I was studying this out that Isaiah 45:7 refers to physical evil. As does Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?", this verse contrasts prosperity and adversity. So the good is physical goodness and happiness, while the evil is physical distress, misfortune, calamity and natural evil, such as storms, earthquakes and other disasters. Even though a lot of the physical evil in the world often comes through the hand of wicked men and women, ultimately God permits it. Like we see in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people". If the evil of the Holocaust had not happened, then the miracle of the Jewish people’s return to Israel in 1948 would not have happened. What we can be sure of, however, is the fact that God is never, ever, the originator and author of evil. It would be contrary to his whole nature and being as consistently revealed in Scripture. Christianity has more than answered the problem of the presence of evil (that's the message of the cross) and the problem of the outcome of evil (for Christ’s resurrection demonstrates that God can beat out even the last enemy and greatest evil, death itself). But Christianity’s most difficult question is the origin of evil. Why did God ever allow “this evil stuff” in the first place? To me this is the most interesting question to try to answer on this topic. Next question is as we look around the world today why is there so much evil? It's in the Bible. GINOLJC, to all.
My first post on the site and it's on EVIL ,,,,,  Oh my.
I have this Understanding that EVIL is just IMPORTANT as Good, when used in the Right hands. the Devil is EVIL but not sin. he can cause us to sin...... if we let him. but he cannot make us sin unless as said we permit it. reading the book of Job, it enlighten me to the understanding and the nature of evil. it can be used for punishment, or correction, or for endurance as said in the right hands. but the devil, being evil must answer to God. Evil do not have a free ring of terror at anyone's will. for the scripture are true, Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
the devil had Job in his "EVIL" hands, but with an exception. not to touch his soul. and this was not God directly testing Job but the results were Godly, for it IMPROVED job. again, I must go to the scriptures. 1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
now this is ONLY an Opinion of 101G's ok, this is not bible, only 101G's opinion. I believe these test that we go through ... sometimes, is a preemptive strike to keep us from going to far. admit it or not we do have EVIL hearts, (sometimes.... Smile). and God is the controller of our hearts if we are in him. hence the reason for Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
and that book of Job is on point.we win in the END over evil, but in God. but of course, that's my opinion.
PICJAG, 101G. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 9:18:02 GMT -8
Hey, 101G, welcome.
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 14, 2022 10:33:35 GMT -8
When the Bible talks about God creating evil it is talking about evil in the sense of calamities, natural disasters and other things of that nature. God does not create the evil deeds of his creatures, those things are the collattoral damage caused by freewill. yes but He created us in our Eden type of nature, which He declared good.. whereas the current body and earth is a corruption...because of Adam...
we are in the realm of death adam entered and we came to be here because of adam....
our job is to die to that foreign Self inclusive this body and its mind
we do have a choice... but its a bit like being in a prison cell... (this earth)
we can choose but still there is the prison cell because of adam..
he did very much harm.
God did not and does not create, cause, or do any evil.
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e v e
Full Member
Posts: 214
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Post by e v e on Aug 14, 2022 10:39:13 GMT -8
Is it evil to kill the ones who murdered and raped His ones in eden? NO. The ones doing these crimes to us (in the other world) are the evil ones. they made eden desolate, and caused us to enter this reality
destroying evil is not evil...
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 14, 2022 11:32:25 GMT -8
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Post by civic on Aug 14, 2022 11:48:33 GMT -8
Yes welcome to our new forum glad you have you here ! |
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Post by hansen on Aug 20, 2022 23:20:49 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. A lot of texts flat-out declare that God is not, and could not be, the author of evil. Like, Deuteronomy 32:4 declares that “his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. [He is] a faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” And Psalm 5:4 notes, “You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil.” So as we read the deeper into Bible it would seem that God is without evil or any pretense of evil. I learned as I was studying this out that Isaiah 45:7 refers to physical evil. As does Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?", this verse contrasts prosperity and adversity. So the good is physical goodness and happiness, while the evil is physical distress, misfortune, calamity and natural evil, such as storms, earthquakes and other disasters. Even though a lot of the physical evil in the world often comes through the hand of wicked men and women, ultimately God permits it. Like we see in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people". If the evil of the Holocaust had not happened, then the miracle of the Jewish people’s return to Israel in 1948 would not have happened. What we can be sure of, however, is the fact that God is never, ever, the originator and author of evil. It would be contrary to his whole nature and being as consistently revealed in Scripture. Christianity has more than answered the problem of the presence of evil (that's the message of the cross) and the problem of the outcome of evil (for Christ’s resurrection demonstrates that God can beat out even the last enemy and greatest evil, death itself). But Christianity’s most difficult question is the origin of evil. Why did God ever allow “this evil stuff” in the first place? To me this is the most interesting question to try to answer on this topic. Next question is as we look around the world today why is there so much evil? It's in the Bible. Physical evil: natural tragedies, illnesses, etc, are generally considered to be “acts of God” which we don't consider to be related to malicious intent but naturally occuring events. Moral evil, sin, which causes the greatest harm, caused by humans against humans, is considered malicious to the extent that it’s committed with full knowledge and deliberate intent. These are acts that need not happen and could be avoided by the perpetrator opting to do otherwise. These rightfully cause moral outrage in others. God allows evil (the most basic evil being disobedience of His command, of His moral authority- to deny His godhood, IOW) because He wants man to freely choose, for himself, good, instead, over that evil. And tasting, or knowing, the evil/sin that man’s freedom so often results in, by the abuse of that freedom in a world where man’s will reigns and God’s will and authority are hidden because we’re alienated from Him at birth due to our fallen state, man has the opportunity to learn to hate evil and run to the good, to the Ultimate Good when He comes calling and knocking at our door. In that case we come full circle, back to the God that was so foolishly dismissed in Eden. We come to value and appreciate God and the love He shows us, and wants us to have and express as well, over ourselves and our pride and the sin it begets. God is the author of love, the epitome of goodness, because God is love. If He were the author of evil He’d be worse, and more blame-worthy, than satan, and certainly not trustworthy or worth following. In any case it's said that God can use evil to bring about an even greater good, as per Gen 50:20. |
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Oh my.
