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Post by Obadiah on Aug 4, 2022 15:43:00 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7
That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. A lot of texts flat-out declare that God is not, and could not be, the author of evil. Like, Deuteronomy 32:4 declares that “his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. [He is] a faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” And Psalm 5:4 notes, “You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil.” So as we read the deeper into Bible it would seem that God is without evil or any pretense of evil.
I learned as I was studying this out that Isaiah 45:7 refers to physical evil. As does Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?", this verse contrasts prosperity and adversity. So the good is physical goodness and happiness, while the evil is physical distress, misfortune, calamity and natural evil, such as storms, earthquakes and other disasters.
Even though a lot of the physical evil in the world often comes through the hand of wicked men and women, ultimately God permits it. Like we see in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people".
If the evil of the Holocaust had not happened, then the miracle of the Jewish people’s return to Israel in 1948 would not have happened.
What we can be sure of, however, is the fact that God is never, ever, the originator and author of evil. It would be contrary to his whole nature and being as consistently revealed in Scripture.
Christianity has more than answered the problem of the presence of evil (that's the message of the cross) and the problem of the outcome of evil (for Christ’s resurrection demonstrates that God can beat out even the last enemy and greatest evil, death itself). But Christianity’s most difficult question is the origin of evil. Why did God ever allow “this evil stuff” in the first place? To me this is the most interesting question to try to answer on this topic.
Next question is as we look around the world today why is there so much evil? It's in the Bible.
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 4, 2022 21:09:29 GMT -8
our Lovely Sir
of us His 144k does no evil
.. ever
never has…
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 5, 2022 4:55:25 GMT -8
God definitely allows evil, and that can be seen as a passive form of creation, but merely allowing something to be formed or happen. To create a free will is by virtue of its creation to allow evil to exist, assuming the will has meaningful moral choices (is allowed to make a bad choice). The reason for the existence of evil, is because by allowing sin, which is a devaluation of God in fundamental essence, it opens the door to a necessary corresponding devaluation of God upon creation. The reason for evil is not to highlight the good and build our characters, which would put the value focus on creation instead of God; no, these are a result of redemption, not the purpose of evil. This is the fundamental essence of judgment, and why a loving God—who is maximally and infinitely loving—still is also wrathful and angry against sin, and why the punishment of sin necessitates wrath. The most difficult and offensive thing about evil, is not that sin allows judgment, but that one person can so adversely affect other innocent people who had nothing to do with their sin.
And this ties in with why the Cross necessitates the full judgment of God against sin, and why it is applied not just for itemized sins, but the sin nature itself that all people are born with. That part of you post I highlighted is so true and it made me think about evil adversely affecting other people, then Love must have a positiveaffect. Like in raising children and pets. Maybe that's the real answer to evil is love. Romans 12:21, NIV. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. 1 Peter 4:8, Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 5, 2022 4:57:02 GMT -8
our Lovely Sir of us His 144k does no evil .. ever never has… You got that right!  |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 10:19:57 GMT -8
our Lovely Sir of us His 144k does no evil .. ever never has… You got that right! :D it’s any moment now He will bring all the sons and daughters… the 144k… and all the little ones.. melt |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 11:02:37 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. A lot of texts flat-out declare that God is not, and could not be, the author of evil. Like, Deuteronomy 32:4 declares that “his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. [He is] a faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” And Psalm 5:4 notes, “You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil.” So as we read the deeper into Bible it would seem that God is without evil or any pretense of evil. I learned as I was studying this out that Isaiah 45:7 refers to physical evil. As does Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?", this verse contrasts prosperity and adversity. So the good is physical goodness and happiness, while the evil is physical distress, misfortune, calamity and natural evil, such as storms, earthquakes and other disasters. Even though a lot of the physical evil in the world often comes through the hand of wicked men and women, ultimately God permits it. Like we see in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this— to preserve the lives of many people". If the evil of the Holocaust had not happened, then the miracle of the Jewish people’s return to Israel in 1948 would not have happened. What we can be sure of, however, is the fact that God is never, ever, the originator and author of evil. It would be contrary to his whole nature and being as consistently revealed in Scripture. Christianity has more than answered the problem of the presence of evil (that's the message of the cross) and the problem of the outcome of evil (for Christ’s resurrection demonstrates that God can beat out even the last enemy and greatest evil, death itself). But Christianity’s most difficult question is the origin of evil. Why did God ever allow “this evil stuff” in the first place? To me this is the most interesting question to try to answer on this topic.
Next question is as we look around the world today why is there so much evil? It's in the Bible. answer : He did not create this evil earth and this satanic ape body... |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 5, 2022 11:09:01 GMT -8
You got that right! it’s any moment now He will bring all the sons and daughters… the 144k… and all the little ones.. melt Yup thats the right answer! Revelation 22:20, Jesus says, “Surely I am coming soon.” John then adds the words, “Amen. Come, Lord. The Lord Jesus’ return is not only soon, that is a truth we need to understand, but it is also imminent, meaning it could happen at any moment. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 5, 2022 12:33:40 GMT -8
That part of you post I highlighted is so true and it made me think about evil adversely affecting other people, then Love must have a positiveaffect. Like in raising children and pets. Maybe that's the real answer to evil is love. Romans 12:21, NIV. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. 1 Peter 4:8, Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.
I don't believe you will find a truly satisfactory answer to the problem of evil that meets all the objections if you continue to put creation as the centerpiece of value—this is idolatry.
I explain that concept more in this thread:
Ok cool, I'll head over there right now. I have no clue what putting creation as the centerpiece of value means. But that's why I'm here, to learn stuff. Thank you. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 5, 2022 13:17:47 GMT -8
I don't believe you will find a truly satisfactory answer to the problem of evil that meets all the objections if you continue to put creation as the centerpiece of value—this is idolatry.
I explain that concept more in this thread:
Ok cool, I'll head over there right now. I have no clue what putting creation as the centerpiece of value means. But that's why I'm here, to learn stuff. Thank you. Wow you sure didn't pull any punches in that post. I can dig it, a little above my paygrade but I'll study out soul-making’ theodicy. Never heard of it till now. I'll start here: What’s John Hick’s ‘soul-making’ theodicy? Does it succeed in answering the ‘evidential’ problem of evil? |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 15:10:23 GMT -8
the reason scripture even exists... is to get His Creation back.. and us
His sons and daughters...back...
so... no idol there , for eden IS our promise
and His gorgeous reality
the idols are :
this earth and this body...
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Post by TibiasDad on Aug 5, 2022 17:29:28 GMT -8
our Lovely Sir of us His 144k does no evil .. ever never has… Are you, by this, implying that Christians cannot sin or that there are only 144 thousand believers? Doug |
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Post by TibiasDad on Aug 5, 2022 18:50:09 GMT -8
I have noted peculiar opinions in the past, but the one really jumped out at me.
The two concepts of the 144k and sinless perfection are both ominous ideas.
Doug
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 19:57:01 GMT -8
Are you, by this, implying that Christians cannot sin or that there are only 144 thousand believers? Doug
She has very strange beliefs.
She does not believe the Bible as we have it is correct or inspired, but that (like the Muslims), the Bible has been somehow corrupted along the way.
She believes that there will be a special select cut of 144k believers who did really well and get a special place; this is similar to Jehovah's Witnesses.
I have pieced these beliefs together from posts, Eve can feel free to correct me where I am wrong.
your own interpretation of what you think l i believe , as you stated it here - is all yours and is what’s strange. i don’t recognize what you wrote about me … and find it foreign… i am not jw or muslim or in any sect (including mainstream christian sects/denominations…) being spoken about in third person or spoken for is poor. |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 20:01:24 GMT -8
I have noted peculiar opinions in the past, but the one really jumped out at me. The two concepts of the 144k and sinless perfection are both ominous ideas. Doug I don’t believe in sinless perfection in the carnal body we have now until we are restored to eden paradise at rapture . the 144k are not as the jw portray in their horrible theology… that sinless perfection is impossible in the fleshbody and would be what some who I disagreed with at carm believe |
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e v e
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Post by e v e on Aug 5, 2022 20:06:17 GMT -8
our Lovely Sir of us His 144k does no evil .. ever never has… Are you, by this, implying that Christians cannot sin or that there are only 144 thousand believers? Doug thank you for asking me. no to both. both would be horrible. the darby rapture is completely off, many more than just the 144k will be in paradise with christ. also if i recall jw think that paradise will be on this earth… ? which is not true. |
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