fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 8:43:35 GMT -8
A simple YES, or NO, that's all. thanks in advance. A yes or no to what? |
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101G
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 8:47:39 GMT -8
A simple YES, or NO, that's all. thanks in advance. A yes or no to what?
scripture B. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." see that "WITH" there .... now watch it here, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
so, Fred. is the First and the Last the SAME one Person here in Isaiah, as the Word and God in John 1:1? a Yes or no will do.
quit stalling and answer the post question.
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 8:49:27 GMT -8
See post 12.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 9:02:39 GMT -8
this is about rev 6:16, person(s) so, a yes, or no will do. else just say U don't know Thus, proving Jesus is not the Father. From the OP: 6:16 "from the presence of Him" (Person #1) and "from the wrath of the Lamb' (Person #2) Your Oneness of Perversity falls and fails. My point doesnt have anything to do with whether you are right or wrong. I`m saying we cant have a meaningful discussion about the Godhead if you are going to call his opinions heresy and perversity. I would like to discuss Godhead issues with the modalists who visit this board, the name calling interferes with that. To be transparent, I`m not above some name calling. I might even pull a rock out of my pocket and throw it at you but you dont do those things until the discussion has completely broken down. LOL. I know the admin doesnt want this sort of thing going on and its just not any fun if its going to be a one sided conversation. Can we examine the book of Revelations without the heritic accusations? |
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101G
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 9:30:07 GMT -8
No, see this, it's the same one person. when one stalls, I know they don't know.
Scripture A. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
scripture B. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
Now this, Scripture C. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."
it's the same one person in the ECHAD in Ordinal Designations of First and Last. U had no clue, did U?
Now the John 1:1 explanation. John 1:1c is t\he dead giveaway, "and the WORD was God". and God himself eliminates any "god" (if any question 1:1b integrity), with him, listen to God.
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." so that eliminates any "god", small "g" at 1:1c.
and he eliminates any "God" or "Gods" and that "God" with the capital "G" also,
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."
God himself eliminates all modelist, and all trinitarians, and yes, all Oneness as the UPCI teaches.
so, your comments are reproved by God himself.
we suggest U understand the term "ONE" at Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
re-read this post for A. clarity. and B. for edification.
PICJAG, 101G.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 9:46:34 GMT -8
No, see this, it's the same one person. when one stalls, I know they don't know.
Scripture A. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
scripture B. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
Now this, Scripture C. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."
it's the same one person in the ECHAD in Ordinal Designations of First and Last. U had no clue, did U?
Now the John 1:1 explanation. John 1:1c is t\he dead giveaway, "and the WORD was God". and God himself eliminates any "god" (if any question 1:1b integrity), with him, listen to God.
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." so that eliminates any "god", small "g" at 1:1c.
and he eliminates any "God" or "Gods" and that "God" with the capital "G" also,
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."
God himself eliminates all modelist, and all trinitarians, and yes, all Oneness as the UPCI teaches.
so, your comments are reproved by God himself.
we suggest U understand the term "ONE" at Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
re-read this post for A. clarity. and B. for edification.
PICJAG, 101G. The problem with your premise is this, Jesus never claimed to be the entirity of God. John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.Jesus consistently affirmed the existence of the Father, that the Father did the miracles and that He was subordinate to the will of the Father. You dont have any scriptures that will change these facts. |
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101G
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 9:54:39 GMT -8
ERROR, he is God
and on your The problem with your premise is this, Jesus never claimed to be the entirity of God.
ERROR, he is God
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
is that GREATER in quality or quantity
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 10:15:49 GMT -8
Thus, proving Jesus is not the Father. From the OP: 6:16 "from the presence of Him" (Person #1) and "from the wrath of the Lamb' (Person #2) Your Oneness of Perversity falls and fails. My point doesnt have anything to do with whether you are right or wrong. I`m saying we cant have a meaningful discussion about the Godhead if you are going to call his opinions heresy and perversity. I would like to discuss Godhead issues with the modalists who visit this board, the name calling interferes with that. To be transparent, I`m not above some name calling. I might even pull a rock out of my pocket and throw it at you but you dont do those things until the discussion has completely broken down. LOL. I know the admin doesnt want this sort of thing going on and its just not any fun if its going to be a one sided conversation. Can we examine the book of Revelations without the heritic accusations? He is constantly trying to dodge from the passages I quoted in the OP. What you choose to do with him is your choice. Based on what he is teaching he is a heretic. If you don't approve of me calling him that makes no difference to me. |
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 10:17:56 GMT -8
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101G
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 11:01:46 GMT -8
Let's put this nonsense to rest. the person who sits on the throne in revelation chapters 4 & 5 is the same person who is the Lamb that stands.
now if any other wise, I ask, "if it's the one whom many calls Father, the WHO GAVE THE FATHER POWERR?", because Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
so, if it's the Father who sits on the throne, please give name, with book chapter verse as to who gave the Father power. if one can produce that name then old 101G will shut his mouth.
PICJAG, 101G.
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Post by michaiah on Aug 16, 2022 11:04:32 GMT -8
Starting the OP with an insult isn’t very helpful to promoting a conversation of any value.
“Modalist”?
Why people belabor the Trinity is strange.
None of the Apostle’s belabored it.
None of the Apostles are documented to have ever taught the Trinity or asserted it in any way in dealing with heretics.
Much ado about nothing.
A waste of time and a distraction from more important doctrinal matters (like behavioral matters).
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Post by civic on Aug 16, 2022 11:16:13 GMT -8
It’s the difference between God being one person ( modalism, oneness ) God being 2 persons ( binatarianism) and God being 3 Persons ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit ( Trinitarianism)
It’s just a way for people to understand the beliefs of others kind of like a Calvinist has distinct beliefs that differ from an Arminian for example .
hope this helps !!!
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 11:55:23 GMT -8
Let's put this nonsense to rest.
Fully agree. Revelation 6:16-17 (see the OP) destroys the Modalist heresy. |
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fred
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 11:57:52 GMT -8
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Post by civic on Aug 16, 2022 11:59:16 GMT -8
Modalism like Unitarianism cannot be true and is impossible since God is love it takes more than 1 person to share and experience that love with and only in Trinitarianism can God be love .
hope this helps !!!
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