fred
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Posts: 36
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 8:36:01 GMT -8
Zechariah 13:7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man, My Associate, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; and I will turn My hand against the little ones. (NASB) This passage teaches the Lord Jesus is both man and God. He is referred to as a "man" and He is the Father's "Associate". Being an "Associate" refers to Christ's equality with the Father. Notice also that when this Hebrew word for "Associate" (`amiyth) is found elsewhere in the Old Testament it is always used in reference to equal relations among persons - not the same person. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5997&t=NASB 1. King James Bible Dictionary: An equal www.studylight.org/dictionaries/kjd/f/fellow.html 2. Charles Feinberg: God is addressing the sword to smite his Shepherd, who can be no other than the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Mt 26:31). Christ's death is seen here as the act of the Father. The sword represents the highest judicial power (cf. Rom 13:4) and may be used symbolically for any means of taking life. As in chapter 11, the Messiah is here seen under the figure of a Shepherd. My fellow. God speaks of his Shepherd as his Fellow, his Equal. When the word is used in Leviticus (6:2; 18:20; 25:14, 15, 17; and others), it is equal to brother. There is no stronger statement in the OT regarding the unimpeachable deity of Israel's Messiah, the Son of God (The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, page 910).
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 9:27:56 GMT -8
Zechariah 13:7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man, My Associate, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; and I will turn My hand against the little ones. (NASB) This passage teaches the Lord Jesus is both man and God. He is referred to as a "man" and He is the Father's "Associate". Being an "Associate" refers to Christ's equality with the Father. Notice also that when this Hebrew word for "Associate" (`amiyth) is found elsewhere in the Old Testament it is always used in reference to equal relations among persons - not the same person. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5997&t=NASB 1. King James Bible Dictionary: An equal www.studylight.org/dictionaries/kjd/f/fellow.html 2. Charles Feinberg: God is addressing the sword to smite his Shepherd, who can be no other than the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Mt 26:31). Christ's death is seen here as the act of the Father. The sword represents the highest judicial power (cf. Rom 13:4) and may be used symbolically for any means of taking life. As in chapter 11, the Messiah is here seen under the figure of a Shepherd. My fellow. God speaks of his Shepherd as his Fellow, his Equal. When the word is used in Leviticus (6:2; 18:20; 25:14, 15, 17; and others), it is equal to brother. There is no stronger statement in the OT regarding the unimpeachable deity of Israel's Messiah, the Son of God (The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, page 910). Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Jesus is the Lord of Hosts and according to Zachariah He will rule as God from Jerusalem. Back to the drawing board with you. Try again. |
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101G
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The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49 
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 9:49:38 GMT -8
Zechariah 13:7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man, My Associate, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; and I will turn My hand against the little ones. (NASB) This passage teaches the Lord Jesus is both man and God. He is referred to as a "man" and He is the Father's "Associate". Being an "Associate" refers to Christ's equality with the Father. Notice also that when this Hebrew word for "Associate" (`amiyth) is found elsewhere in the Old Testament it is always used in reference to equal relations among persons - not the same person. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5997&t=NASB 1. King James Bible Dictionary: An equal www.studylight.org/dictionaries/kjd/f/fellow.html 2. Charles Feinberg: God is addressing the sword to smite his Shepherd, who can be no other than the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Mt 26:31). Christ's death is seen here as the act of the Father. The sword represents the highest judicial power (cf. Rom 13:4) and may be used symbolically for any means of taking life. As in chapter 11, the Messiah is here seen under the figure of a Shepherd. My fellow. God speaks of his Shepherd as his Fellow, his Equal. When the word is used in Leviticus (6:2; 18:20; 25:14, 15, 17; and others), it is equal to brother. There is no stronger statement in the OT regarding the unimpeachable deity of Israel's Messiah, the Son of God (The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, page 910). Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Jesus is the Lord of Hosts and according to Zachariah He will rule as God from Jerusalem. Back to the drawing board with you. Try again. c orrect, he ERRORS, to the term "fellow", KJV, is also translated as "ANOTHER" my source, the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
FELLOW: H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
note definition #2. concretely God SHARED in flesh as a man. supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
OFFSPRING: G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Jesus the Christ is the KINSman REDEEMER, God the Ordinal Last in Flesh.
PS this is where I get "Diversified Oneness" From.... (smile)
PICJAG, 101G.
Root(s): G1096 |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 9:55:17 GMT -8
What do you mean when you say "God the Ordinal Last in Flesh."
According to Jesus He is the "last".
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 9:57:47 GMT -8
What do you mean when you say "God the Ordinal Last in Flesh." According to Jesus He is the "last". the LAST ADAM. in Ordinal designations, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK ..... (smile). PICJAG, 101G. |
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fred
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 10:21:09 GMT -8
Zechariah 13:7Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, and against the man, My Associate, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; and I will turn My hand against the little ones. (NASB) This passage teaches the Lord Jesus is both man and God. He is referred to as a "man" and He is the Father's "Associate". Being an "Associate" refers to Christ's equality with the Father. Notice also that when this Hebrew word for "Associate" (`amiyth) is found elsewhere in the Old Testament it is always used in reference to equal relations among persons - not the same person. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5997&t=NASB 1. King James Bible Dictionary: An equal www.studylight.org/dictionaries/kjd/f/fellow.html 2. Charles Feinberg: God is addressing the sword to smite his Shepherd, who can be no other than the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Mt 26:31). Christ's death is seen here as the act of the Father. The sword represents the highest judicial power (cf. Rom 13:4) and may be used symbolically for any means of taking life. As in chapter 11, the Messiah is here seen under the figure of a Shepherd. My fellow. God speaks of his Shepherd as his Fellow, his Equal. When the word is used in Leviticus (6:2; 18:20; 25:14, 15, 17; and others), it is equal to brother. There is no stronger statement in the OT regarding the unimpeachable deity of Israel's Messiah, the Son of God (The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, page 910). Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Jesus is the Lord of Hosts and according to Zachariah He will rule as God from Jerusalem. Back to the drawing board with you. Try again. Something I never denied. Try getting back to actually reading and understanding that I affirmed Jesus is God in the OP. |
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fred
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 10:23:51 GMT -8
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Jesus is the Lord of Hosts and according to Zachariah He will rule as God from Jerusalem. Back to the drawing board with you. Try again. c orrect, he ERRORS, to the term "fellow", KJV, is also translated as "ANOTHER" my source, the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
FELLOW: H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
What a total mess of a ransom note response. "Another" and "fellow" and "neighbor" is never the same person as yourself. |
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101G
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The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 10:26:19 GMT -8
What do you mean when you say "God the Ordinal Last in Flesh." According to Jesus He is the "last".
here "ONE" is the Hebrew word, H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
the ERROR many scholars make is that they run with definition #1 when in fact definition #2, is the correct definition. this is borne out in Genesis 1:1 in the term "BEGINNING", in which it IDENTIFIES God as an ECHAD of himself in the EQUAL SHARE. and this EQUAL Sharing of himself is in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK just as the term "Beginning describs,
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
Just as he is the FIRSTFRUIT in the NEW CREATION. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." the term preeminence is the Greek word, G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413
there it is. he is the FIRST, and he is "ALSO" the LAST, just as Isaiah 48:12 states.
PICJAG, 101G.
PS. my source for these definitions is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments |
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 10:32:31 GMT -8
as this board name entitles, "Berean Apologetics" so we suggest that one do what 1 Thessalonians 5:21 states, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
be a Berean
PICJAG, 101G.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 10:35:11 GMT -8
What do you mean when you say "God the Ordinal Last in Flesh." According to Jesus He is the "last".
here "ONE" is the Hebrew word, H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
the ERROR many scholars make is that they run with definition #1 when in fact definition #2, is the correct definition. this is borne out in Genesis 1:1 in the term "BEGINNING", in which it IDENTIFIES God as an ECHAD of himself in the EQUAL SHARE. and this EQUAL Sharing of himself is in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK just as the term "Beginning describs,
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
Just as he is the FIRSTFRUIT in the NEW CREATION. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." the term preeminence is the Greek word, G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413
there it is. he is the FIRST, and he is "ALSO" the LAST, just as Isaiah 48:12 states.
PICJAG, 101G.
PS. my source for these definitions is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew TestamentsSorry for being a simpleton but now I`m even more confused. Did you mean God is the last or Jesus is the last? Or both if you think they are one and same? I see Jesus as the first and last. |
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 10:41:55 GMT -8
let us make ourselves a little bit clearer. scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
here "ONE" is the Hebrew word, H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
the ERROR many scholars make is that they run with definition #1 when in fact definition #2, is the correct definition. this is borne out in Genesis 1:1 in the term "BEGINNING", in which it IDENTIFIES God as an ECHAD of himself in the EQUAL SHARE. and this EQUAL Sharing of himself is in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK just as the term "Beginning describs,
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
Just as he is the FIRSTFRUIT in the NEW CREATION. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." the term preeminence is the Greek word, G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413
there it is. he is the FIRST, and he is "ALSO" the LAST, just as Isaiah 48:12 states.
PICJAG, 101G.
PS. my source for these definitions is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments Sorry for being a simpleton but now I`m even more confused. Did you mean God is the last or Jesus is the last? Or both if you think they are one and same? I see Jesus as the first and last.
then you said, "I see Jesus as the first and last" ok did Jesus the Last, the Last Adam, the Son "MAKE MAN IN THE BEGINNING?" yes or No.
PICJAG, 101G. |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 10:52:44 GMT -8
The Bible said Jesus created everything.
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 16, 2022 10:55:25 GMT -8
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Jesus is the Lord of Hosts and according to Zachariah He will rule as God from Jerusalem. Back to the drawing board with you. Try again. Something I never denied. Try getting back to actually reading and understanding that I affirmed Jesus is God in the OP. Near as I can tell you dont realize that Jesus is the Lord of Hosts. |
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49
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Post by 101G on Aug 16, 2022 11:04:22 GMT -8
and Saviour 2, which makes him the Ordinal Last.
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fred
New Member
Posts: 36
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2022 12:01:04 GMT -8
Near as I can tell you dont realize that Jesus is the Lord of Hosts. Then you need to read the OP better: I asserted: This passage teaches the Lord Jesus is both man and God. Part of what I quoted: Charles Feinberg: There is no stronger statement in the OT regarding the unimpeachable deity of Israel's Messiah, the Son of God (The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, page 910). |
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