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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 16:56:05 GMT -8
that would be me saving myself God gave me eternal life. Not based on how good I am (I am not and will never be good enough) But based on his sons death, His promise and his assurance.. I chose to place my faith and hope in his promise He did not give me conditional life. If that is what it was. He should have called it conditional. not eternal We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it. I am speaking of eternal life. Or lack of condemnation, He who believes is not condemned.. My God said I have it. Not I may get it.. I do not see why you can not see it.. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 23, 2022 20:21:07 GMT -8
We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it. I am speaking of eternal life. Or lack of condemnation, He who believes is not condemned.. My God said I have it. Not I may get it.. I do not see why you can not see it.. At the risk Of Being repetitive,it’s just like I said elsewhere—— God gave us a Promise , and the Promise is This—— “Anybody That asks to be Saved, WILL BE SAVED!”...........please notice that God did NOT say, “Anybody that asks to be Saved will now have a “ CHANCE” to be Saved ....welcome to your lifetime of Probation! Do do this and Don’t do that and “ then” you just might get Lucky and obtain Eternal Life!” ...... It was God that made this Promise —- NOT US! I completed “ MY” part, which was to “ ask” ......Now it is up to the God that Can NEVER lie to uphold HIS end of the bargain.....to put it rather Coarsely, God made the Promise and I did My part......Now the “ monkey” is on HIS back! And there is something MUCH more at stake here than my Salvation Of Anybody “else’s” Salvation—— GOD’S WORD is at stake and I can Guarantee that God will Keep His Word.....in Fact, I base my entire Eternal Fate on God KEEPING HIS PROMISES...... that is what FAITH is? You got any ? ( or is your “ Faith” really in yourself? That’s a Sure Fire way to get yourself damned....) |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 23, 2022 20:30:26 GMT -8
We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it.
Not All Of it? HERE is ALL of it—— 1Cor15:1-4......Nothing else....people think you can take anything that you like or anything that “ Sounds Good” and call it “ The Gospel”———Sorry, it does not work that way....
I do not see why you can not see it..
Can a Blind Man see?
“ The Gospel is Foolishness to those that Perish”...... just sayin’......
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 20:42:00 GMT -8
We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it. Not All Of it? HERE is ALL of it—— 1Cor15:1-4......Nothing else....people think you can take anything that you like or anything that “ Sounds Good” and call it “ The Gospel”———Sorry, it does not work that way.... I do not see why you can not see it.. Can a Blind Man see? “ The Gospel is Foolishness to those that Perish”...... just sayin’...... There's a lot else, much of which has been already been cited and casually ignored and dismissed out of hand. Again, faith is the doorway to genuine righteounsess, not the guarantee that we will walk in it-and walk in it we must. Nor is faith the equivalent of righteousness, or serve as a stand-in or replacement for it. We can still live by the flesh, or now by the Spirit. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 23, 2022 21:10:17 GMT -8
We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it. Not All Of it? HERE is ALL of it—— 1Cor15:1-4......Nothing else....people think you can take anything that you like or anything that “ Sounds Good” and call it “ The Gospel”———Sorry, it does not work that way.... I do not see why you can not see it.. Can a Blind Man see? “ The Gospel is Foolishness to those that Perish”...... just sayin’...... There's a lot else, much of which has been already been cited and casually ignored and dismissed out of hand. Again, faith is the doorway to genuine righteounsess, not the guarantee that we will walk in it-and walk in it we must. Nor is faith the equivalent of righteousness, or serve as a stand-in or replacement for it. We can still live by the flesh, or now by the Spirit. I Agree—- “Faith” is NOT the “ Equivalent” Of Being Righteous—— But Faith *WILL* get you “ COUNTED” as Being Righteous.... Have you forgotten about Lying, Disobeying , Lack Of Faith, Adulterating Old Abraham? His life was replete with Sin and Disobedience , yet All Abraham had to do was to BELIEVE GOD and that FAITH was “ COUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS”.....If it worked for him, I figure it will work for me .....it’s enough to get me Saved...after Salvation, there is Plenty to do, no doubt about it....but lets just make sure we get First Things first..... btw......a Saved man * LIVES” in the Spirit, but doesn’t always “ Walk” in it......Chastisement can work wonders with that “ walk” ... |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:27:29 GMT -8
We live eternally anyway, either in eternal life or eternal death. Either way, yours is not His gospel-at least not all of it. I am speaking of eternal life. Or lack of condemnation, He who believes is not condemned.. My God said I have it. Not I may get it.. I do not see why you can not see it.. No, he who is righteous, who overcomes sin, because of what Christ did, is not condemned, becasue when we become a slave to righteousness instead of sin (Rom 6) through faith, there's nothing to be condemned of! "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4 "...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9 |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:29:57 GMT -8
There's a lot else, much of which has been already been cited and casually ignored and dismissed out of hand. Again, faith is the doorway to genuine righteounsess, not the guarantee that we will walk in it-and walk in it we must. Nor is faith the equivalent of righteousness, or serve as a stand-in or replacement for it. We can still live by the flesh, or now by the Spirit. I Agree—- “Faith” is NOT the “ Equivalent” Of Being Righteous—— But Faith *WILL* get you “ COUNTED” as Being Righteous.... Have you forgotten about Lying, Disobeying , Lack Of Faith, Adulterating Old Abraham? His life was replete with Sin and Disobedience , yet All Abraham had to do was to BELIEVE GOD and that FAITH was “ COUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS”.....If it worked for him, I figure it will work for me .....it’s enough to get me Saved...after Salvation, there is Plenty to do, no doubt about it....but lets just make sure we get First Things first..... btw......a Saved man * LIVES” in the Spirit, but doesn’t always “ Walk” in it......Chastisement can work wonders with that “ walk” ... James claims that Abraham's faith would've been insufficient if he didn't obey God, do the right thing IOW. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:58:11 GMT -8
As long as we know that acknowledging that a believer is still obligated under the new covenant to be righteous, to live uprightly, walk in the light, overcome sin, does not constitute “Sneaking legalism back into Christian living”.
It certainly can be legalism if it is applied as an "obligation" instead of a gift of grace.
This is the curse of living under the Law.
Man is, simply, oblgated to do the right thing. Failure to fulfill that obligation is the reason why we have so much ugliness and harm: sin and evil, in our world. So, hopefully, there's a cure so that, at least in those who wish to fulfil that obligation, as we all should, can do so, having tasted of a world that fails to do so. And there is a cure-and it's not the Law. His name is Jesus-and He's all about grace - the grace to finally overcome the sin, and therefore the death, that plagues this world. Man is obligated to love, to put it most correctly, and He's the source of that love. And the more of His love we taste, the less desirable this relatively loveless world becomes to us, and the nearer we draw to Him instead. And His love and image grow in us. Our first obligation is to see our need, and not keep the door shut when He knocks. The intiative is all His; He comes with His love, and because of His love. We must love in return, and that is not without choice. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 22:19:27 GMT -8
There is no demand to produce what you never can.
You fail to love like Christ every moment.
Grace comes when we take OFF demand, ADMIT our lack, and don't replace the GOAL with the means and method.
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 1:53:38 GMT -8
I am speaking of eternal life. Or lack of condemnation, He who believes is not condemned.. My God said I have it. Not I may get it.. I do not see why you can not see it.. No, he who is righteous, who overcomes sin, because of what Christ did, is not condemned, becasue when we become a slave to righteousness instead of sin (Rom 6) through faith, there's nothing to be condemned of! "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4 "...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9 Righteousness comes through faith. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.. Abraham was seen as saved before he did his many great works (and committed quite a few sins) David was called a man after Gods heart. Because he believed God. And through his faith he did many fine works. But he also committed two of the worse sins a man can sin, Adultery and murder. Remember, God knew David would do that, when he called him a man after his heart. While we are in the OT. Remember the passover day. The angel came, and if he saw blood he passed over, He did not ask how righteous the person was or if the person was worthy, he passed over, because he saw the blood That is what will get God to pass over your sins on judgment day. The blood. Not because your worthy or you were a morally righteous being, but because God sees the blood of Christ. Who washed you white as snow. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 2:00:20 GMT -8
I am speaking of eternal life. Or lack of condemnation, He who believes is not condemned.. My God said I have it. Not I may get it.. I do not see why you can not see it.. At the risk Of Being repetitive,it’s just like I said elsewhere—— God gave us a Promise , and the Promise is This—— “Anybody That asks to be Saved, WILL BE SAVED!”...........please notice that God did NOT say, “Anybody that asks to be Saved will now have a “ CHANCE” to be Saved ....welcome to your lifetime of Probation! Do do this and Don’t do that and “ then” you just might get Lucky and obtain Eternal Life!” ...... It was God that made this Promise —- NOT US! I completed “ MY” part, which was to “ ask” ......Now it is up to the God that Can NEVER lie to uphold HIS end of the bargain.....to put it rather Coarsely, God made the Promise and I did My part......Now the “ monkey” is on HIS back! And there is something MUCH more at stake here than my Salvation Of Anybody “else’s” Salvation—— GOD’S WORD is at stake and I can Guarantee that God will Keep His Word.....in Fact, I base my entire Eternal Fate on God KEEPING HIS PROMISES...... that is what FAITH is? You got any ? ( or is your “ Faith” really in yourself? That’s a Sure Fire way to get yourself damned....) The pride of the flesh resists that God will give something for free. Especially since we deserve so deep a punishment because of our rebellion. so the flesh makes up this believE they are not really bad. Or that they have to help God so it can feel good about itself. Thats why the flesh, without being broken, will never receive Christ. Jesus said blessed are those who are poor in spirit the word poor there is literal brokenness, without hope. Bankrupt.. The tax collector was brought to his knees.. The pharisee thought he was ok, and (with the exception of a few. Such as nicodemus and saul) never fell to their knees. Because their pride was to deep. |
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Post by mailmandan on Aug 24, 2022 3:07:54 GMT -8
mailmandan said: The writer of Hebrews was saved Dan. He wrote, if we (including himself) sin wilfully (to any degree) we will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers. You are using the Greek improperly to pervert this scripture. The scriptures in totality plainly exposes your faulty Greek word play.
I have properly used the Greek and I have also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Your rejection of the Greek and your perversion of scripture does not support a loss of salvation here or the heretical doctrine of sinless perfection. |
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Post by mailmandan on Aug 24, 2022 3:13:23 GMT -8
The term "blood" is a euphemism for death. When the "Blood of Christ" is referred to in Scripture it is speaking of His death, and specifically, His death on the Cross.
We are sanctified, set apart as holy unto God because of Christ's vicarious death in our stead.
And this is a one time event. It is known as Positional Sanctification and is not to be confused with Progressive sanctification which refers to the process in our walk with Christ where we are increasingly made more holy (set apart from the world and unto God).
Those who are sanctified by the Blood of Christ have received remission of sins forever, because we are made complete in regards to remission of sins.
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
It is tragic that there are those who claim to have faith in Christ that use Hebrews to teach loss of salvation. The theme of perfection/completion taught us in Hebrews makes the clearest and most incontrovertible statements of Eternal Security in all of Scripture—and this is totally lost on the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers).
It is inconceivable that the Writer would begin Hebrews 10 by pointing out that the Law and its sacrifices could not make the "comer thereunto" (the worshiper) complete in regards to remission of sins but that the Sacrifice of Christ does (and this forever)—and then go on to contradict himself by teaching this is not the case, that he made a mistake, and that the Sacrifice of Christ does not make one complete in regards to remission of sins forever.
God bless.
mailmandan said: Amen and well said! In Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here. |
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Post by mailmandan on Aug 24, 2022 3:24:44 GMT -8
P1LGR1M said: You are perfected from your old sins. And you’re sanctified forever because when you are born again you cannot sin. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin...” (1 John 3:9) So if you follow this scripture: “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:17-18) You preserve the sanctification and righteousness that was gifted you. Otherwise, returning to the pollutions of the world (2 Peter 2:20) and sinning willfully (Hebrews 10:26-29) will stain your sanctification and righteousness (Revelation 3:4) and you cannot mock God (Galatians 6:7) and claim to be sorry a second time (Hebrews 6:6). You have trampled over Christ. He suffered enough at the cross. He doesn’t need more hypocrites stomping all over him! He suffered enough already! It’s your turn to suffer for Him now! “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)
Sorry, but the verse makes it clear Christ, not you—makes the one sanctified complete in regards to remission of sins forever.
You are negating the very statement of Scripture with your teaching.
You do not even seem to understand John's teaching if you think you do not sin:
1 John 1:8-9
King James Version
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Is that what you are saying? That you have no sin?
The "we" here are those that are saved. There is a reason why we have an Advocate with the Father.
Because we still sin after we are saved.
Are you going to tell me that you have not once sinned since you were saved?
And I don't want this to distract from Hebrews 10:14: would you mind showing me in the text where you are the one that preserves your sanctification in this verse?
You said, "You preserve the sanctification and righteousness that was gifted you."
That is not what the verse states. As I said, you are negating Scripture and imposing your own doctrine into it. And it simply isn't there.
God bless.
mailmandan said: AMEN and well said! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10) |
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Post by michaiah on Aug 24, 2022 3:47:59 GMT -8
mailmandanYou said Yes, IF we don’t wilfully sin and trample over Christ (all in the same chapter; Hebrews 10). You are the one using the Greek to change the Bible, not me.
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