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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 5:44:45 GMT -8
There is no demand to produce what you never can. You fail to love like Christ every moment. Grace comes when we take OFF demand, ADMIT our lack, and don't replace the GOAL with the means and method. You can’t produce it, and yet you’re obligated to have it. It’s the quagmire reported by Paul in Rom 7. What’s the answer? Jesus Christ! “ Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” Rev 3:20 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” John 15:5-6 “ But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” Rom 3:21-22 It begins with faith. God, alone, can produce in man what he cannot produce-what he doesn't have- on his own. God, alone, can make man just. Adam turned away from God, and sin flourished in that brave new world. Death was the result. Man turns back to God now, and righteousness begins to take root and blossom. And life is the result. Man’s first obligation is turn to the God Jesus revealed in faith. That’s the basis and essence of righteousness for man. “But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.” Rom 6:22 “ I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.” Jer 31:33-34 |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 6:01:58 GMT -8
No, he who is righteous, who overcomes sin, because of what Christ did, is not condemned, becasue when we become a slave to righteousness instead of sin (Rom 6) through faith, there's nothing to be condemned of! "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:1-4 "...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9 Righteousness comes through faith. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.. Abraham was seen as saved before he did his many great works (and committed quite a few sins) David was called a man after Gods heart. Because he believed God. And through his faith he did many fine works. But he also committed two of the worse sins a man can sin, Adultery and murder. Remember, God knew David would do that, when he called him a man after his heart. While we are in the OT. Remember the passover day. The angel came, and if he saw blood he passed over, He did not ask how righteous the person was or if the person was worthy, he passed over, because he saw the blood That is what will get God to pass over your sins on judgment day. The blood. Not because your worthy or you were a morally righteous being, but because God sees the blood of Christ. Who washed you white as snow. The basis of the new covenant is not merely forgiveness of sin, but forgiveness of sin and, finally, the power to overcome it, the true way, with God now rather than apart from Him. Man was made for that communion and is lost, dead, sick without it, and unable to retain moral integrity. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 7:48:08 GMT -8
To put it concisely, again, we'll be judged on our love at the end of the day. We'll be judged on how weve been changed, Interesting theory, but if you want to go by the Bible,Paul said that we will ALL be Judged by “ his Gospel “ (Romans 2:16).......Paul’s Gospel ( formerly a Secret of God, and revealed to Paul by Jesus personally) has nothing to do with anything that man does for God—- it’s all about what a God of Grace and Mercy has done for Fallen and lost man.....read all about it —- 1Cor15:1-4....... The more one comes to know God and understand the full gospel revelation, the more they understand the teaching referred to above, and that it's not a theory, but wisdom and understanding. It's about the change God makes in man- as we particapte in that work of grace throughout whatever time we have. And Paul's gospel was the same as Jesus, James, John, et al. No conflict between them. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 8:43:56 GMT -8
Righteousness comes through faith. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.. Abraham was seen as saved before he did his many great works (and committed quite a few sins) David was called a man after Gods heart. Because he believed God. And through his faith he did many fine works. But he also committed two of the worse sins a man can sin, Adultery and murder. Remember, God knew David would do that, when he called him a man after his heart. While we are in the OT. Remember the passover day. The angel came, and if he saw blood he passed over, He did not ask how righteous the person was or if the person was worthy, he passed over, because he saw the blood That is what will get God to pass over your sins on judgment day. The blood. Not because your worthy or you were a morally righteous being, but because God sees the blood of Christ. Who washed you white as snow. The basis of the new covenant is not merely forgiveness of sin, but forgiveness of sin and, finally, the power to overcome it, the true way, with God now rather than apart from Him. Man was made for that communion and is lost, dead, sick without it, and unable to retain moral integrity. The problem with this thinking is you seem to think you can be a morally upright person. Well. Youi maybe be morally u[right as compared to other humans. But when it comes to Gods standard. Your still a filthy sinner. We need to stop comp[airing ourselves to other people. And look at Gods righteous standard. Only then will we be able to truly repent and truly place ourselves in the hands of God. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 17:31:23 GMT -8
The basis of the new covenant is not merely forgiveness of sin, but forgiveness of sin and, finally, the power to overcome it, the true way, with God now rather than apart from Him. Man was made for that communion and is lost, dead, sick without it, and unable to retain moral integrity. The problem with this thinking is you seem to think you can be a morally upright person. Well. Youi maybe be morally u[right as compared to other humans. But when it comes to Gods standard. Your still a filthy sinner. We need to stop comp[airing ourselves to other people. And look at Gods righteous standard. Only then will we be able to truly repent and truly place ourselves in the hands of God. You're not understanding God's purpose, from Eden until today. He did not create man to be a sinner, and has no intention of leaving us in our sins. There's no humilty in continously insisting that we're hopeless sinners, as if that admission is all He wants even though that's the first right step. Humilty consists in doing His will-and that is defintely not to sin. His will is that we love-and there's no pride in love, and love excludes sin by its nature. Will we sin in heaven, and if not, why not? God can't cause people to be who He created them to be? I can't do all things through Christ who strengthens me? Some things are impossible for God after all? Again, the basis of the new covenant is that man needs God, union with Him, as is the right and just order of things for man. Then, finally, man begins to be who he was created to be; justice begins to flow. To think the new covenant is nothing but a reprieve from the obligation to be righteous is antithetical to the gospel and Scripture. So does that mean we need to be perfect? His church teaches no, we won't achieve perfect sinlessness in this life, in these bodies, but we must be on that journey, towards that goal, and not priding ourselves instead in beating our chest continously about what a terrible sinner I am unless that's aimed at repentance and the knowledge that Jesus then purifies us from all sin (1 John 1). And we can reverse the question, how imperfect can we be? Can we be "perfectly sinful" and still remain in a state of justice as long as we believe? is there no line drawn, no limit to how sinful we can be? And, if there is a limit, how do we identify it, how do we know when our fruits are so bad that they might disconnect us from God all over again-if it's admitted that they can. These are honest questions that are often ignored, covered up. |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Aug 24, 2022 18:11:18 GMT -8
“Once saved, always saved". I don't get all hot under the collar if any Brother in Christ does not hold to my believe on this topic.  When we spin our spiritual wheels then Satan is a happy camper. He has great joy every time we believe we aren’t saved. For a short while, I questioned my salvation. I learned later; a lot of people go through seasons where they do. I examined my heart and knew it belonged to God. How did I know that? He’s always on my mind. Turning to my Beloved is something I do routinely. The Holy Spirit tells me I’m His child. That settled the issue for me. The key I believe to holding on to your assurance of salvation Is to Abide in Jesus. Jesus said, “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me” (John 15:4). Have a constant abiding in Christ means to have a living relationship with Him. Gal. 2:20 “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless, I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” By faith Paul was crucified at his conversion, crucified in the flesh, died to the old life with Christ. Now he lives, or rather, Christ lives in him. The old life is laid aside, and the new life is a Christlike life, due to the spirit of Christ. He is now merged in Christ. That means we must also be in daily connection with Jesus Christ and must live our life in Him... a living sacrifice. Living sacrifice is a bit of a problem. Never to be ...... But by not being? how is not being ..... being? Been not being for 52 years. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 2:49:04 GMT -8
The problem with this thinking is you seem to think you can be a morally upright person. Well. Youi maybe be morally u[right as compared to other humans. But when it comes to Gods standard. Your still a filthy sinner. We need to stop comp[airing ourselves to other people. And look at Gods righteous standard. Only then will we be able to truly repent and truly place ourselves in the hands of God. You're not understanding God's purpose, from Eden until today. He did not create man to be a sinner, and has no intention of leaving us in our sins. There's no humilty in continously insisting that we're hopeless sinners, as if that admission is all He wants even though that's the first right step. Humilty consists in doing His will-and that is defintely not to sin. His will is that we love-and there's no pride in love, and love excludes sin by its nature. Will we sin in heaven, and if not, why not? God can't cause people to be who He created them to be? I can't do all things through Christ who strengthens me? Some things are impossible for God after all? Again, the basis of the new covenant is that man needs God, union with Him, as is the right and just order of things for man. Then, finally, man begins to be who he was created to be; justice begins to flow. To think the new covenant is nothing but a reprieve from the obligation to be righteous is antithetical to the gospel and Scripture. So does that mean we need to be perfect? His church teaches no, we won't achieve perfect sinlessness in this life, in these bodies, but we must be on that journey, towards that goal, and not priding ourselves instead in beating our chest continously about what a terrible sinner I am unless that's aimed at repentance and the knowledge that Jesus then purifies us from all sin (1 John 1). And we can reverse the question, how imperfect can we be? Can we be "perfectly sinful" and still remain in a state of justice as long as we believe? is there no line drawn, no limit to how sinful we can be? And, if there is a limit, how do we identify it, how do we know when our fruits are so bad that they might disconnect us from God all over again-if it's admitted that they can. These are honest questions that are often ignored, covered up. excuse me my friend, Your not understanding Gods standard. God said if you eat this tree. you will die. One act taking a bite out of a fruit caused the fall of mankind. And you think your sin are meaningless? Your church is not the church so please stop trying to tell me what "the church" says. I care what God says, not what your church says, |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 2:50:38 GMT -8
Thanks for responding and I was just tossing some ideas out there. For the past 40 years I have been an Eternal Security of the believer advocate. I know the doctrine very well . Below is what I have always believed. And I'm not saying I don't believe this today. ETERNAL LIFE Eternal life must not be confused with natural life. Natural life is subject to death and is derived by human generation. Spiritual life has a beginning but no end. The difference is that one possessing just natural life will be separated eternally from God in the lake of fire, whereas the one possessing eternal life will be united and in fellowship with God for all eternity. Separation from God is eternal death and union with God is eternal life. Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. No one who has come to faith in Christ will ever be cast out and go to the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed. Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him. It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life. Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God. Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ. Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ. Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God. John 3:16,18 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. John 6:54 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. John 10:27-30 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one." Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, 1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. hope this helps !!!
Excellent presentation.
The only thing I would take issue with is this: Separation from God is eternal death
Not necessarily. All men are born separated from God, and it is just my belief God gives all men opportunity to come into obedience to Him.
"Eternal death" might be better described as everlasting death, because as you point out there is a beginning in time when a spirit comes into existence, hence they are not "Eternal." We have "Eternal Life," as you so excellently stated, because we are in union with God, and thus partake of His nature whichis the only thing that is Eternal (meaning having no beginning or end).
Other than that, an excellent presentation.
God bless.
I believe in the book of revelation, this is called the second death. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 25, 2022 5:04:34 GMT -8
“Once saved, always saved". I don't get all hot under the collar if any Brother in Christ does not hold to my believe on this topic. When we spin our spiritual wheels then Satan is a happy camper. He has great joy every time we believe we aren’t saved. For a short while, I questioned my salvation. I learned later; a lot of people go through seasons where they do. I examined my heart and knew it belonged to God. How did I know that? He’s always on my mind. Turning to my Beloved is something I do routinely. The Holy Spirit tells me I’m His child. That settled the issue for me. The key I believe to holding on to your assurance of salvation Is to Abide in Jesus. Jesus said, “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me” (John 15:4). Have a constant abiding in Christ means to have a living relationship with Him. Gal. 2:20 “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless, I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” By faith Paul was crucified at his conversion, crucified in the flesh, died to the old life with Christ. Now he lives, or rather, Christ lives in him. The old life is laid aside, and the new life is a Christlike life, due to the spirit of Christ. He is now merged in Christ. That means we must also be in daily connection with Jesus Christ and must live our life in Him... a living sacrifice. Living sacrifice is a bit of a problem. Never to be ...... But by not being? how is not being ..... being? Been not being for 52 years. Been there done that |
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:24:09 GMT -8
mailmandan You said Yes, IF we don’t wilfully sin and trample over Christ (all in the same chapter; Hebrews 10). You are the one using the Greek to change the Bible, not me.
We have to understand Hebrews as it would have been understood in the original language by those it was written to.
They would not have misundertood the teaching of Hebrews 10 as contradicting itself by teaching one thing in vv.1-18 and something completely opposite to that teaching (as well as the rest of Hebrews).
The point in Hebrews 10:1-18 is that the Law, and the sacrifices offered up by the Law—could never accomplish the purpose of the sacrifices themselves. That is, to bring about remission (forgiveness) of sins. That is why they were continually offered, and the writer asks the simple question, "If they could take away sins—wouldn't they have ceased being offered?"
He contrasts that with Christ's Offering of Himself as a once-for-all offering that has no need to be repeated because His Sacrifice, unlike the Law, did make the comer thereunto (the beneficiary of forgiveness) complete in regards to remission of sins—forever.
And this is the Promise of God in the Old Testament:
Hebrews 10:14-18
King James Version
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
The L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers) interpret Hebrews 10:26-27 as teaching the exact opposite of what the Writer is teaching here.
The reason there is no more sacrifice for sin here...
Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
...is because the Hebrews that are in danger of judgment and fiery indignation have rejected the One Sacrifice that can save them from judgment and fiery indignation:
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
That is why there is no more sacrifice for sin.
If one is sanctified by the Sacrifice of Christ (v.10) one receives remission of sins in an eternal context, just as one receives the righteousness of Christ. We are not righteous (justified) because of what we have or will do, but it is because of what Christ did.
And that is what it means to trust in Christ: to trust that you are not righteous, nor could you ever be righteous enough to "make it to Heaven," much less come into union with God.
You really need to ask yourself, seriously, how you think the righteousness you could possibly attain to could ever be enough that you would not have to die in your own stead for the sin you have committed in your life. Just pick the least among them, my friend, and tell if that sin means nothing to God.
But if you are honest with yourself then you have to admit that in your life you have sinned. That sin earns the death penalty, even the least among them. And for even the least of your sin the debt accrued must be paid.
It will either be by you, and you will remain eternally separated from God, just as you entered this world—or it will be paid by Jesus Christ the Righteous, and you will be credited with His righteousness.
Which one do you think will get you into Heaven?
Only Christ's. That is what Scripture teaches over and over and over.
You really can trust Christ, and when you do, that is when you will have saving faith. As long as you trust in anything else, especially someone that has themselves sinned, you are not trusting Christ.
God bless.
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:30:06 GMT -8
Excellent presentation.
The only thing I would take issue with is this: Separation from God is eternal death
Not necessarily. All men are born separated from God, and it is just my belief God gives all men opportunity to come into obedience to Him.
"Eternal death" might be better described as everlasting death, because as you point out there is a beginning in time when a spirit comes into existence, hence they are not "Eternal." We have "Eternal Life," as you so excellently stated, because we are in union with God, and thus partake of His nature whichis the only thing that is Eternal (meaning having no beginning or end).
Other than that, an excellent presentation.
God bless.
I believe in the book of revelation, this is called the second death.
Correct, but it isn't eternal, it is everlasting.
While "eternal" and "everlasting" are often interchangeable in Scripture, when we define our positions it is best to keep in mind that only God is Eternal, meaning He is the Only One that has always existed. That is the true definition of eternal.
We have "eternal life" because we partake of His divine nature in Eternal Union through our being placed in Him and He in us. But we did not have that life when we were conceived and born, thus we have a point in time when we "began." Eternal Life bestowed to us will have everlasting measure, but it isn't something we had in Eternity, or, eternity past.
So too, with "Eternal Death," it implies that those who are lost and will go into Eternal Separation have always been eternally dead. While God's knowledge of those who will be eternally "dead" may reach into eternity past, the existence of the lost does not.
Hope that helps better clarify what I mean.
God bless.
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:41:35 GMT -8
mailmandan said: AMEN and well said! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
It's interesting that this is the very heresy John writes against in 1 John and that is the go-to Epistle for those who think they can live sinlessly.
It is pride, self-righteousness, and self-deception. Recognizing sin in our lives is the very means by which we can put away sin our lives. If we can't recognize there is a problem—how can we deall with it?
And how do we deal with those that have deceived themselves and traded the righteousness of Christ for their own?
Scripture and a sincere concern for their eternal destiny. That one is deceived in this manner could be a result of indoctrination, and when we battle indoctrination we are battling uphill.
One question to start with is what fellowship they attend. Most that have fallen into this error do not go to a fellowship regularly, and if they do, seldom does that fellowship teach what they themselves believe.
So the first sin many of these folk can have brought to their attention is found just before one of their favorite proof texts:
Hebrews 10:25
King James Version
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
While we do not believe going to church (attending a local fellowship) will save people, it is generally a good idea to maintain basic principles of worship as taught by the entirety of Scripture. The First-Century believers would have been religious, indoctrinated Judaizers (lol) converted to Christianity, and would have viewed a weekly service for worship and praise of God as natural.
Shouldn't we follow suit? lol
Plus, fellowship brings about an accountability we cannot have when we are Lone Rangering. I myself find one benefit of regular fellowship to be that accountability it brings about in regards to people I have to face every week. My actions are directly affected by the fact that I can ask myself what it is I would want those I fellowship to think about me. In other words, there are things I might do when not regular in fellowship that are brought to my conscience because of the fellowship I have with other Christians.
So let's see if we can find out where this fellow attends in fellowship with other "like-minded" sinless believers.
God bless.
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Post by michaiah on Aug 25, 2022 6:43:25 GMT -8
P1LGR1MYou write so much error. You spend so much time and use many words to erroneously make void the plain warning in Hebrews 10:26-29. But the foundation for that warning came earlier in the letter in chapter 6. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) ALL THE WARNING PASSAGES TO CHRISTIANS ARE MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING OF ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” (Mark 7:13)
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 6:50:39 GMT -8
I believe in the book of revelation, this is called the second death.
Correct, but it isn't eternal, it is everlasting.
While "eternal" and "everlasting" are often interchangeable in Scripture, when we define our positions it is best to keep in mind that only God is Eternal, meaning He is the Only One that has always existed. That is the true definition of eternal.
We have "eternal life" because we partake of His divine nature in Eternal Union through our being placed in Him and He in us. But we did not have that life when we were conceived and born, thus we have a point in time when we "began." Eternal Life bestowed to us will have everlasting measure, but it isn't something we had in Eternity, or, eternity past.
So too, with "Eternal Death," it implies that those who are lost and will go into Eternal Separation have always been eternally dead. While God's knowledge of those who will be eternally "dead" may reach into eternity past, the existence of the lost does not.
Hope that helps better clarify what I mean.
God bless.
well, I see no difference in the two I think it is more confusing to people if we try to make a difference. everlasting means lasting forever eternal means for all eternity as for the second death. Thats part i was answering, When jesus sends them out. it is called the second death.. |
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:53:38 GMT -8
Righteousness comes through faith. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.. Abraham was seen as saved before he did his many great works (and committed quite a few sins) David was called a man after Gods heart. Because he believed God. And through his faith he did many fine works. But he also committed two of the worse sins a man can sin, Adultery and murder. Remember, God knew David would do that, when he called him a man after his heart. While we are in the OT. Remember the passover day. The angel came, and if he saw blood he passed over, He did not ask how righteous the person was or if the person was worthy, he passed over, because he saw the blood That is what will get God to pass over your sins on judgment day. The blood. Not because your worthy or you were a morally righteous being, but because God sees the blood of Christ. Who washed you white as snow. The basis of the new covenant is not merely forgiveness of sin, but forgiveness of sin and, finally, the power to overcome it, the true way, with God now rather than apart from Him. Man was made for that communion and is lost, dead, sick without it, and unable to retain moral integrity.
There is a reason why we need an Advocate with the Father: we will sin after salvation and when we do we confess that sin that we might be cleansed of it.
Recognition of sin isn't always as easy as we might think. When I was first saved my mindset was "I need to stop using drugs and drinking, I need to stop cussing..." etc. But the Lord opened my eyes to the way I treated people and impressed on my heart that this sin was more grievous than the sin I thought were the "big ones," lol. The ones that, if I stopped doing them, would make me a better Christian.
But, He will finish the work He has begun in me, of that I am confident. I have His Word on that. And when I fail I have a Great High Priest and an Advocate with the Father that is there to help me grow in grace.
I will say that I agree we have an obligation as Christians "to do the right thing," but I think most of us understand that. It is all too easy for us, as brothers and sisters, to go to extremes when we are trying to "prove" the beliefs we hold to. We must be careful when we preach the good news of the Gospel not to forget that being born-again doesn't mean we have license to sin or that what we doesn't matter, because we have an entire Bible of instruction that teaches us that our will must conform to God's will.
And just as recognition of sin isn't always easy, even so understanding God's will for our lives isn't easy either.
Praise God He will finish the work He began in us, and that one day we will be freed from this current body and our ties to a fallen world!
God bless.
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