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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:55:37 GMT -8
P1LGR1M You write so much error. You spend so much time and use many words to erroneously make void the plain warning in Hebrews 10:26-29. But the foundation for that warning came earlier in the letter in chapter 6. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) ALL THE WARNING PASSAGES TO CHRISTIANS ARE MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING OF ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” (Mark 7:13)
I am sorry, Michaiah, that you are having a problem seeing some pretty basic teaching in the Word of God.
Would you mind telling me where exactly you attend fellowship? What is the denomination or group that are united with that teaches the doctrine you hold to?
God bless.
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 6:56:53 GMT -8
Correct, but it isn't eternal, it is everlasting.
While "eternal" and "everlasting" are often interchangeable in Scripture, when we define our positions it is best to keep in mind that only God is Eternal, meaning He is the Only One that has always existed. That is the true definition of eternal.
We have "eternal life" because we partake of His divine nature in Eternal Union through our being placed in Him and He in us. But we did not have that life when we were conceived and born, thus we have a point in time when we "began." Eternal Life bestowed to us will have everlasting measure, but it isn't something we had in Eternity, or, eternity past.
So too, with "Eternal Death," it implies that those who are lost and will go into Eternal Separation have always been eternally dead. While God's knowledge of those who will be eternally "dead" may reach into eternity past, the existence of the lost does not.
Hope that helps better clarify what I mean.
God bless.
well, I see no difference in the two I think it is more confusing to people if we try to make a difference. everlasting means lasting forever eternal means for all eternity as for the second death. Thats part i was answering, When jesus sends them out. it is called the second death..
So do you believe you have always existed?
God bless.
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Post by hansen on Aug 25, 2022 7:12:12 GMT -8
You're not understanding God's purpose, from Eden until today. He did not create man to be a sinner, and has no intention of leaving us in our sins. There's no humilty in continously insisting that we're hopeless sinners, as if that admission is all He wants even though that's the first right step. Humilty consists in doing His will-and that is defintely not to sin. His will is that we love-and there's no pride in love, and love excludes sin by its nature. Will we sin in heaven, and if not, why not? God can't cause people to be who He created them to be? I can't do all things through Christ who strengthens me? Some things are impossible for God after all? Again, the basis of the new covenant is that man needs God, union with Him, as is the right and just order of things for man. Then, finally, man begins to be who he was created to be; justice begins to flow. To think the new covenant is nothing but a reprieve from the obligation to be righteous is antithetical to the gospel and Scripture. So does that mean we need to be perfect? His church teaches no, we won't achieve perfect sinlessness in this life, in these bodies, but we must be on that journey, towards that goal, and not priding ourselves instead in beating our chest continously about what a terrible sinner I am unless that's aimed at repentance and the knowledge that Jesus then purifies us from all sin (1 John 1). And we can reverse the question, how imperfect can we be? Can we be "perfectly sinful" and still remain in a state of justice as long as we believe? is there no line drawn, no limit to how sinful we can be? And, if there is a limit, how do we identify it, how do we know when our fruits are so bad that they might disconnect us from God all over again-if it's admitted that they can. These are honest questions that are often ignored, covered up. excuse me my friend, Your not understanding Gods standard. God said if you eat this tree. you will die. One act taking a bite out of a fruit caused the fall of mankind. And you think your sin are meaningless? Your church is not the church so please stop trying to tell me what "the church" says. I care what God says, not what your church says, Where have I even hinted that my sins are meaningless???  The doctrine of sola fide tends to make sins meaningless. And either the church is God's mouthpiece or billions of private interpreters like yourself, as often as not disagreeing with each other over the meaning of Scripture, are. I care what God says, not what you say. |
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Post by michaiah on Aug 25, 2022 7:28:36 GMT -8
P1LGR1MThe majority of buildings that self professing Christians meet in are infected with the traditional teachings of men. This cancer has been spreading since Paul’s day. Other buildings have been built by these heretics that they craftily call “Bible College”. Their students are equipped in the skill of making void the Bible. Most of them are full of hot air and fist pounding: shoving all the heresy down peoples throats while they shout “preach it brother!” from the pews. This includes every Protestant denomination, many non denominations, and especially the Catholic Church. “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.” (Matthew 24:11-12) WE ARE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH! There were no pure assemblies then, and I would bet that there aren’t any now. So my answer to you is: I am not a part of any organization or group. I read and believe the Bible only. EVERY WORD THAT MEN SPEAK TO ME STAND OR FALL ON THE BIBLE. And many of the words that I hear from men today FALL. I WILL NOT FALL INTO THE HANDS OF HERETICS. I STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD!
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 25, 2022 7:34:47 GMT -8
P1LGR1M The majority of buildings that self professing Christians meet in are infected with the traditional teachings of men. This cancer has been spreading since Paul’s day. Other buildings have been built by these heretics that they craftily call “Bible College”. Their students are equipped in the skill of making void the Bible. Most of them are full of hot air and fist pounding: shoving all the heresy down peoples throats while they shout “preach it brother!” from the pews. This includes every Protestant denomination, many non denominations, and especially the Catholic Church. “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.” (Matthew 24:11-12) WE ARE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH! There were no pure assemblies then, and I would bet that there aren’t any now. So my answer to you is: I am not a part of any organization or group. I read and believe the Bible only. EVERY WORD THAT MEN SPEAK TO ME STAND OR FALL ON THE BIBLE. And many of the words that I hear from men today FALL. I WILL NOT FALL INTO THE HANDS OF HERETICS. I STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD!
No, you stand on the word of Michaiah.
I am sorry, my friend, but the reason is pretty obvious why you can't fellowship with Christians anywhere: it is because your doctrine is not Christian.
That does not mean to say I am questioning whether you might be saved or not, it just means that if you are a Christian, then you need to ask yourself why your doctrine is in opposition to Christian Doctrine.
God bless.
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Post by michaiah on Aug 25, 2022 7:45:41 GMT -8
P1LGR1MYou said: Edit by Admin
And you have no evidence. I post scripture alone. Your opposition to me tells me all I need to know about you sir. You said: Yes, that’s the problem. STANDING ON THE PLAIN WORD OF GOD WITHOUT THE LEAVEN OF SECTARIANS IS NOT “CHRISTIAN” THESE DAYS. You just proved my point. But here’s a question for you: HOW MANY PURE ASSEMBLIES WERE PRESENT IN NOAH’S DAY? Answer: 0 “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.” (Luke 17:26) “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 8:06:42 GMT -8
well, I see no difference in the two I think it is more confusing to people if we try to make a difference. everlasting means lasting forever eternal means for all eternity as for the second death. Thats part i was answering, When jesus sends them out. it is called the second death..
So do you believe you have always existed?
God bless.
when John said he wrote things so we may know we have eternal life, Did John have in mind we always existed? the greek word aionion (eternal) has 3 possible meanings in the greek. 1. Without begining or end 2. Without beginning (see titus 1: 2 for an example) 3. Without end, continuing forever, everlasting, never to cease |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 8:10:30 GMT -8
excuse me my friend, Your not understanding Gods standard. God said if you eat this tree. you will die. One act taking a bite out of a fruit caused the fall of mankind. And you think your sin are meaningless? Your church is not the church so please stop trying to tell me what "the church" says. I care what God says, not what your church says, Where have I even hinted that my sins are meaningless??? The doctrine of sola fide tends to make sins meaningless. And either the church is God's mouthpiece or billions of private interpreters like yourself, as often as not disagreeing with each other over the meaning of Scripture, are. I care what God says, not what you say. you claim your sins are meaningless in the following ways 1. You deny perfection is Gods standard 2. You deny the penalty of sin (death) is the only thing that can redeem you from every sin you commit 3. You claim you can sin yourself out of salvation if you commit these sins , but these other sins are ok. as long as you make penance. if you cared what God said, you would look at his inspired word. and not listen to men. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 25, 2022 19:26:35 GMT -8
I STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD!
You and everybody else in hear totally Believes the same thing and would not hesitate to say so.......What makes you think that “ You” are something Special ? Are you “ Mr.Holy Spirit, Jr.” or something?
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Post by makesends on Aug 25, 2022 20:04:48 GMT -8
There’s nothing wrong with question oneself in the faith/salvation. “But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.” (1 Corinthians 11:28-29) “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Corinthians 13:5) My advice to be secure in the faith is to be reading the scriptures frequently and meditating on them constantly. Trusting in a man made doctrine like ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED is just lying to yourself. OSAS is not "A Doctrine" of itself. There are several ways it can be said to be true, but those ways are the doctrine —OSAS is not, but is only a conclusion. For example, an Arminian-leaning believer may deny Unlimited Redemption, and even believe that his eternal destiny hinges on his choice and not God's, yet still believe that once that choice is made for Christ, it is all in God's hands from there on, i.e. OSAS. Or, a non-Arminian, non-Calvinist, logical pragmatist might reduce it down to its simplest terms, that 'the proof is in the pudding'. IF indeed a person is saved, as is proven by the end location, then indeed the regeneration did happen, and so, once saved, that person was always saved. And if indeed a person ends up in hell, then obviously, he was not saved. Then, there are the Calvinistic reasoners, that if God chooses someone for his own, regardless of what else that someone might think or do, God will see to it that person is going to heaven. WHEN that person comes to Christ, or falls away, or whatever else our minds might describe as even apostasy, steadfast and obedient or lazy and apathetic —I say, WHEN, or even HOW, that person comes to Christ is not really the issue, but what God has decided and will accomplish is the issue. We can be sure that God will complete what he has begun. |
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Post by makesends on Aug 25, 2022 20:12:14 GMT -8
There’s nothing wrong with question oneself in the faith/salvation. “But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.” (1 Corinthians 11:28-29) “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Corinthians 13:5) My advice to be secure in the faith is to be reading the scriptures frequently and meditating on them constantly. Trusting in a man made doctrine like ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED is just lying to yourself. ......in your opinion..... btw...In regard to the Communion passage.......the “unworthily” part of your quote is an adverb—— describing the “ Way” they were Partaking.....some were trying to make a meal out of it and others were actually getting drunk on the wine! They were Partaking in an “ Unworthy Manner” by doing these things.....Jesus said to ;take Communion “ to remember ME!” ......These participants were making the same mistake that people do today at The Table Of the Lord—— they were taking their eyes off of Jesus and HIS Performance and looking at their “ own” performance...many times deceiving themselves into thinking that they are somehow “ worthy” because they get confused by that word “ worthily” in the verse...... We need to ESPECIALLY realize at The Table Of The Lord That NOBODY is “ WORTHY” .......We are *MADE* Worthy by our Faith in The Blood Of The Lamb...., Agreed. It is a principle that applies to all effort we make toward meriting anything from God. We MUST obey, yet we don't. And when we think we are living up to even our own consciences, we still fall short of pure obedience. So it is with "unworthily", at the Lord's Table. None of us are, and none of us can be, worthy, if it is talking about our merit or purity of heart. |
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Post by makesends on Aug 25, 2022 20:13:34 GMT -8
It doesn't matter what you "feel." It matters what God's Word says, and his Word says "CHOOSE YE THIS DAY." If you don't think you could walk away from Christ, you've simply chosen not to, or you are arrogantly trusting in your own goodness. Not to dispute the point you are really trying to make, but I have tried to walk away from Christ, and found myself unable to do so. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 26, 2022 4:16:28 GMT -8
It doesn't matter what you "feel." It matters what God's Word says, and his Word says "CHOOSE YE THIS DAY." If you don't think you could walk away from Christ, you've simply chosen not to, or you are arrogantly trusting in your own goodness. Not to dispute the point you are really trying to make, but I have tried to walk away from Christ, and found myself unable to do so. as the prophet said. Where can I go that you are not there... we can't hide from God, even adam tried to Hide.. Jesus said he leaves the whole flock to get the lamb who wandered away. when he finds him, the lamb hears his voice, because he is his..and follows after him (I have done this) the lamb who does not follow was never his to begin with. |
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 26, 2022 4:22:48 GMT -8
So do you believe you have always existed?
God bless.
when John said he wrote things so we may know we have eternal life, Did John have in mind we always existed? the greek word aionion (eternal) has 3 possible meanings in the greek. 1. Without begining or end 2. Without beginning (see titus 1: 2 for an example) 3. Without end, continuing forever, everlasting, never to cease
So do you believe yo have always existed?
God bless.
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Post by P1LGR1M on Aug 26, 2022 4:39:53 GMT -8
P1LGR1M You said: You see, just a lie. YOU LIE WITHOUT RESERVATION. And you have no evidence. I post scripture alone. Your opposition to me tells me all I need to know about you sir. You said: Yes, that’s the problem. STANDING ON THE PLAIN WORD OF GOD WITHOUT THE LEAVEN OF SECTARIANS IS NOT “CHRISTIAN” THESE DAYS. You just proved my point. But here’s a question for you: HOW MANY PURE ASSEMBLIES WERE PRESENT IN NOAH’S DAY? Answer: 0 “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.” (Luke 17:26) “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
There is no such thing as a "pure assembly," so committing sin based on human reasoning that is also sin, "I am too pure to fellowship with the rest of Christians."
This...
Hebrews 10:25
King James Version
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
...is not a suggestion, it is a warning of the writer of Hebrews that forsaking the assembling of the brethren is an indication that someone has rejected Christ.
And by your doctrine (which you proof text by taking verses out of context) it is easy to see that you have rejected Christ, His Sacrifice of Christ (and His righteousness, which you have replaced with your own), His Covenant (in favor of a pseudo-following of the Covenant of Law), and the Spirit of Grace Who is the only One that can convince and convict you of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
The warning not to forsake the assembling of the brethren is followed by a detailed picture of those who reject God's will:
Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
There's a reason why he says "for" after the warning not to forsake the assembling of the brethren.
The willful sin is rejection of Christ.
Perhaps if you get over yourself and realize that your sin is pretty plain to those who have not rejected Christ, you might find the humility to find a fellowship.
But as long as you forsake the assembling of the brethren you will remain in sin.
And that is how all Judaizers are—they excuse their own sin and try to hammer everyone else about theirs. That is the very reason John wrote 1 john, and Paul addresses it heavily in Galatians.
Galatians 3:1-3
King James Version
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
God bless
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The doctrine of sola fide tends to make sins meaningless. And either the church is God's mouthpiece or billions of private interpreters like yourself, as often as not disagreeing with each other over the meaning of Scripture, are. I care what God says, not what you say.