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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 18, 2022 23:01:57 GMT -8
Where do you get the authority to limit sin to rejecting the blood of Christ only? That would be illogical. The sin of murder also forfeits salvation which destroys your claim:
I have no authority over Anything and never claimed to have.... Get “ Carried Away” with false accusations much? Nobody is “limiting sin “....The issue was “ Willful Sinning”, and I corrected your Confused thinking for sake of any Newbies that might be in the crowd...I would hate to see others go down the road , suffering needless anxiety , as many other “ Poor Students Of The Word “ have done......They misunderstand “ willful sinning” and so they have to navigate to a “Fantasy Land” , where they can Pretend that they never “ sin on purpose” ..... what a joke....Christians sin every hour of every day —- if not in Deed , they do it in thought.....These people that think that they are “ above sin” are no different from you or me or anybody else—- “ We ALL have Secret Thoughts that would shame Hell”........God knows this .....I would suggest that people abandon their pitiful attempts at “ Perfection” and go out and find yourself some Grace.....don’t be shy about grabbing it.....Trust me, Just like me , we all need a TON of it....
In regard to Murders not having Eternal Life abiding in them? Better clear that with three Murderers that I know....Moses, David and Paul.....
You ever HATE anybody? Yeah, I thought so......therefore , in God’s Eye, you are just as guilty as a Murderer....these guys prove that Murderers are not beyond God’s Grace.....Haters and Murders ( they are the same) or anybody that is a captive to hate must make sure that they Turn to God for Forgiveness and Grace Before it’s too late .....” Blasphemy Of The Holy Spirit” is the only Sin beyond the Grace of God ....hundreds , if not thousands of men on Death Row have become Born Again, by Believing and Resting in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace...
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 0:50:40 GMT -8
I would be interested in a clash between OSAS and Arminianism. Your take on this topic is essentially the Arminian point of view which believes we must endure as Christians in order to have the security. Sadly when I view the OSAS debate. Most of the time it is an armenian vs a calvinist.It gets so bad that if you look at both arguments, they are not even looking at what other people are saying. they assume they know. because if you believe in OSAS you MUST be calvinist. If you believe in NOSAS you must be an armenian. I have experienced this myself. since I am neither Armenian or calvinist. We must remember, just because someone believes in eternal security does not make them a calvinist. and someone who believes salvation can be lost does not mean they are armenian. I really don`t understand where this is coming from. It`s been my experience that Chistians who think a strict lifestyle is a must line up on the works side. Doesnt have anything to do with Arminianism. The very reason I would want to do this debate is to try out defending the Arminian position on grace. I`m Arminian and I usually end up defending the OSAS view after throwing in a proviso. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 19, 2022 2:05:31 GMT -8
You're minimizing your own sin. We all commit a sin deserving hell 1,000 times a day. We are not saved by stopping murdering and raping. Billions of people have managed to not rape and murder, and that does not save them. Yes, we are changed and empowered not to rape and murder—that is not what saves us. It’s not either/or but both/and-a total package. When we realize one crucial bit of information, that the righteousness received at justification is real, personal righteousness given, that comes by virtue of reconciliation with God through faith, then we can understand that we are, from then on, obligated to walk in this new life, as a child of God, together with Him. A life lived by the Spirit, under grace, not under the law, not by performing works of the law. The law thus begins to be fulfilled in us nonetheless, regardless of whether or not we’ve even heard it. “ But now, apart from law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.” Rom 3:21-22 “ Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:1-4 “ Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14 The new covenant was never, ever, about relieving man from the obligation to be righteous, but about empowering him, finally, to do that very thing, now in consonance with His Creator, a union which man is made for and which is the basis and essence of man’s justice/righteousness. We’re lost, sick, dead, existing in a state of injustice to the extent that we’re outside of and apart from Him. That vital relationship and it’s consequences are summed up simply in the prophecy of Jeremiah: “ I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.” Jer 31:33-34 |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 2:19:45 GMT -8
It doesn't matter what you "feel." It matters what God's Word says, and his Word says "CHOOSE YE THIS DAY." If you don't think you could walk away from Christ, you've simply chosen not to, or you are arrogantly trusting in your own goodness. Its not as out me, Its about who and what God is and what he assured us I did not give myself new birth I did not adopt myself into the family of God I did not take what was against me, contrary me and nail it to the cross I did not give myself every spiritual blessing in christ Jesus I did not give myself the promise of I will never die and will live forever (eternal life) I did not make a promise that I began a good thing, and will continue it until the day of christ in me I did not perfect myself forever as I am sanctifying myself These are all promises God made to me. It is these promises in which after I became bankrupt in spirit. I repented and called out to Jesus and asked him to apply his promises to me, in the Hope that he will do what he said. He then justified me, at which I recieved new birth and became a new creature, He adopted me int his family, because he took what was contrary to me and against me and nailed it to the cross. He then gave me every spiritual blessing, and even sealed me with his spirit until that day I am ressurected as a pledge of his promise. He said I will never die. And I can rest on the fact I have eternal life as John said. And because of this, I have tthe power to continue to believe, because I can come to him as my Abba, not in the spirit of fear. He assured me through pau; that he who began that work in me will continue it until the day of Christ. As he has perfected me forever already, as he is sanctifying me daily God did not take away these promises because I walked away. He pursued me, He chastened me because of the deep sin I got into. He restored me, much like he restored peter. He came and I knew his voice. And I followed. Not because I was dragged kicking and screaming back to him/ But because I was tryign to be something I was not. I was no longer a creature of sin. Because I was made new. The vomit I was tryign to eat did not taste good. Because I was no longer a dog. The chastening was painful. John said a child of God can not live in sin, because they have been born of God. I understand that because I lived it.. Its on God. Because it God who saved, God who changes and God who made the promise. If it was ever on me. Then I have more power than God. I understand your anger against fatalism, I feel your anger and am there beside you. But don’t use your anger to go the other way. And fail to see it is God who saved. We can never save ourself. Its is Gods promise of eternal life. Not ours./ I may fail to trust him in this or that area. But as far as my sin and condemnation and Gods gift of life.. Unless I never really trusted God in this area and never really repented. I will never walk away from that.. He gave me life when I was dead. He rescued me from the pit of hell.. You do not just all of a sudden change your mind and forget this. Unless you were never really rescued. |
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Post by michaiah on Aug 19, 2022 2:59:48 GMT -8
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2)
How?
Obey the scriptures!
“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5)
They weren’t saved when they committed those acts until Christ died and preached the gospel to them.
“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” (1 Peter 4:6)
Yes, when I was not saved.
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 3:10:35 GMT -8
Sadly when I view the OSAS debate. Most of the time it is an armenian vs a calvinist.It gets so bad that if you look at both arguments, they are not even looking at what other people are saying. they assume they know. because if you believe in OSAS you MUST be calvinist. If you believe in NOSAS you must be an armenian. I have experienced this myself. since I am neither Armenian or calvinist. We must remember, just because someone believes in eternal security does not make them a calvinist. and someone who believes salvation can be lost does not mean they are armenian. I really don`t understand where this is coming from. It`s been my experience that Chistians who think a strict lifestyle is a must line up on the works side. Doesnt have anything to do with Arminianism. The very reason I would want to do this debate is to try out defending the Arminian position on grace. I`m Arminian and I usually end up defending the OSAS view after throwing in a proviso. I am not sure either. It is just what I witness so much of. You can almost see it when they start to attribute a calvinist or arminian trait (like preveniant grace or irresistible grace) to a person trying to discuss with them, Even though they have not even mentioned either of the two. And even after a person says they do not believe in that. the arminian/calvinist keeps telling that person they do. Basically at the point discussion is pointless. because the person can not hear what the other person says |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 3:13:08 GMT -8
I can, as a strong advocate of grace, still agree with certain things: 1. The Law is good. 2. The Holy Spirit will produce good attitudes in us by his grace. 3. We will be rewarded for good works. But this is as far as I can go. I cannot agree the Scripture promotes the following: 1. Self-effort and self-goodness are the way to righteous living. 2. We are under the demand and obligation of the Law. 3. We will be judged for sins we are repentant of. 4. We have to fulfill a certain percentage of perfect character or righteous living. 5. We can live sinlessly perfect. 6. Striving and performance are the way to holiness. 7. Our good works merit and earn for us a place in heaven. If we go back to attempting to live righteously by our own efforts and under the perfection the Law demands, or if we mix grace up with works, claiming grace is just to put us back under the Law with a little helpful boost where we restart over and over to try to reach as much perfection we can muster, while continually condemned to always falling short to just get "cleaned up" so we can try, try, again, like the little engine that could—the Law will produce sinful things in us, it will arouse our sin nature to lusting, it will encourage our pride in our own self-righteousness, it will secretly give us a sense of achievement even while paying lip service to grace, it will put us under demonic powers because we are attempting to earn God's favor, it will produce condemnation, shame and a constant sense of falling short, it will produce fleshly striving and a performance mentality where we are always under a sense of demand and pressure to produce more righteous living and try to atone or make up for past failures, all while minimizing the "little" sins we have that we don't think count for much, and inflating our sense of self-holiness. And all of this—all of this—instead of simply resting in the Work of the Cross, proclaiming its finality, and watching the Holy Spirit work miraculous grace inside of us with no burden of self-improvement or threat of judgment for falling short. No longer do we spiritually navel-gaze, but come to a complete place of reliance and dependence and peace in the knowledge that God will do it all in us, constantly being covered in mercy, no matter how weak we feel or badly we perform. Be aware that the focus and preaching of "Lordship Salvation" and righteous striving produces secret spiritual pride and places one under the Ministry of Death and Condemnation the Law was always meant to be. Sneaking legalism back into Christian living is very tempting because it appeals to our self effort and our prideful desire to earn things and feel good about ourselves. Yes, the Law is necessary for the Gospel, yes, the Law does not ever die in and of itself, but the true Gospel is that we died to the Law and all of its demands because the Law was perfectly fulfilled on the Cross. Wanting to contribute to that Work of the Cross with our own efforts and goodness is the perennial temptation of the sin of self-righteousness. Whatever God requires of us in the matter of holy living—cannot be based on the demands of the Law that only grace could fulfill for us. These are non-meritorious requirements fulfilled by grace itself in us, not as an expression of fulfillment or requirements of the Law that only the Cross could fulfill for us, but as the non-meriting demands of a gracious Savior whose yoke is easy and whose burden is light, and who asks nothing of us that he himself is not willing to fulfill through us and in us. Sneaking the Law back in is a subtle and nuanced attack on grace itself as addressed in Paul's letter to the Galatians, and removes the power, freedom and confidence of walking without any demands from God that only Christ could ever fulfill for us and in us. Through the Law I died to the Law. By the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. The Law manifests sin. If a Law could give life, the promise would indeed come through the Law. The Law is your tombstone, the warrant for your arrest, the diagnose of your incurable disease, the sure death knell of all your own goodness and efforts, the Law is sent to kill you, show you are not good enough, and display your bondage to Satan, and that is its spiritual purpose. Cling to the Cross alone as the only adequate and full fulfillment of all the Law's requirements, and every other requirement the Lord asks of us must always and only be met by his grace alone. amen and amen. The law is our tutor..to lead us to christ. not our guide to learn how to live like christ. It condemns us because cursed is the one who does not... |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 4:51:13 GMT -8
Its not as out me, Its about who and what God is and what he assured us
What we are, we are by his grace, but we can be what we want with our choice.
God does not violate or remove our free will, he does not enslave people and force them to be or remain his children, no matter how much you think you were forced to follow God.
You just had a lot of help, God did NOT take away your free will.
you have yet to show me a REASON one would want to re-repent. and deny they are a sinner, and because they are a sinner, they are condemned to hell. How they who became "poor in spirit" (literally bankrupt) and fell as the tax collector. have re-repented and all of a sudden changed their view about themselves and their need of Gods mercy. Who have been born again from above and are made a new creature. I believe we are both in agreement, in the end they are not saved. I believe God knew their heart and did not save them, and they turned out to be who they were. a non believer (antichrist) just like John said, they were never of us. Its not a free will issue and God preventing them from walking away Its a free will issue that they never repented truly and were born again. so they walked away in unbelief because they never experienced Gods true love.. |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 6:12:18 GMT -8
I really don`t understand where this is coming from. It`s been my experience that Chistians who think a strict lifestyle is a must line up on the works side. Doesnt have anything to do with Arminianism. The very reason I would want to do this debate is to try out defending the Arminian position on grace. I`m Arminian and I usually end up defending the OSAS view after throwing in a proviso. I am not sure either. It is just what I witness so much of. You can almost see it when they start to attribute a calvinist or arminian trait (like preveniant grace or irresistible grace) to a person trying to discuss with them, Even though they have not even mentioned either of the two. And even after a person says they do not believe in that. the arminian/calvinist keeps telling that person they do. Basically at the point discussion is pointless. because the person can not hear what the other person says OSAS discussions are always intense but I think what you are refering to is largely a Christian Forums thing although I suspect Calvin is likely to kicked around a bit right here as well. I guess if its not your cup of tea my advice is not to play. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 6:26:42 GMT -8
I am not sure either. It is just what I witness so much of. You can almost see it when they start to attribute a calvinist or arminian trait (like preveniant grace or irresistible grace) to a person trying to discuss with them, Even though they have not even mentioned either of the two. And even after a person says they do not believe in that. the arminian/calvinist keeps telling that person they do. Basically at the point discussion is pointless. because the person can not hear what the other person says OSAS discussions are always intense but I think what you are refering to is largely a Christian Forums thing although I suspect Calvin is likely to kicked around a bit right here as well. I guess if its not your cup of tea my advice is not to play. I have witnessed it in every christian chat room I have been a member off. It got so bad in christianchat they ended up banning a slew of people. As for discussing, I think the end result of the gospel is a very important discussion.. |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 6:38:50 GMT -8
OSAS discussions are always intense but I think what you are refering to is largely a Christian Forums thing although I suspect Calvin is likely to kicked around a bit right here as well. I guess if its not your cup of tea my advice is not to play. I have witnessed it in every christian chat room I have been a member off. It got so bad in christianchat they ended up banning a slew of people. As for discussing, I think the end result of the gospel is a very important discussion.. I dunno, I only troll one board at a time and Christian forums has been it last few years. Ok, I got a joke for you. What`s a troll thread? |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 8:40:53 GMT -8
I have witnessed it in every christian chat room I have been a member off. It got so bad in christianchat they ended up banning a slew of people. As for discussing, I think the end result of the gospel is a very important discussion.. I dunno, I only troll one board at a time and Christian forums has been it last few years. Ok, I got a joke for you. What`s a troll thread? I have not been on christian forums in awhile.. Whats a troll thread? I am not sure. what is it? |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 19, 2022 9:26:10 GMT -8
I dunno, I only troll one board at a time and Christian forums has been it last few years. Ok, I got a joke for you. What`s a troll thread? I have not been on christian forums in awhile.. Whats a troll thread? I am not sure. what is it? Your clothes. ba-da-bum-Ching! LOL! Somebody got me with that one I thought it was pretty funny. |
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Post by civic on Aug 19, 2022 9:33:14 GMT -8
I have not been on christian forums in awhile.. Whats a troll thread? I am not sure. what is it? Your clothes. ba-da-bum-Ching! LOL! Somebody got me with that one I thought it was pretty funny. Lol 😂 |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 19, 2022 9:35:06 GMT -8
Your clothes. ba-da-bum-Ching! LOL! Somebody got me with that one I thought it was pretty funny. Lol 😂 Lol |
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