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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 9:20:05 GMT -8
God and the faith He delivered once for all to the saints says, as reflected in Scripture and the teachings of the early church and ECFs, that only He can save us, but we can compromise and lose that salvation by what we do or fail to do after turning to Him in faith and being freely justified. He gives all the grace we need in order to work out our salvation together with Him, and yet we can still say no at any time. Any works done as we now authentically obey His will, such as those prepared in advance in Eph 2:10 or those done “for the least of these” in Matt 25 or the putting to death the deeds of the flesh in Rom 8:12-13 are not works of the law but works of grace without which we will not gain eternal life as the Bible makes clear. Legalism 101 your trying to earn salvation while denying it i will pray for you Study, Scripture and the ECFs for yourself, instead of through the lens of private interpreters who came before you. You have a skewed and stifled gospel. God, simply, wants man's will involved, for our highest good, since Eden with our first foolish and bratty act of disobedeince, like a good parent who's aim is to ultimately produce something good and great out of what he began with. Man is a morally responsible being, and the measure of his justice or rightepusness is the extent to which we've chosen good over evil, the extent that we're near to God, the extent to which we love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then our neighbor as ourselves, all with His help but not by coercion or totally overwhelming our wills. Love, that He has for us and that He wants us to have, is both a gift and a choice, daily, to embrace and act upon that gift. And then it grows. And then our very purpose, coinciding with our salvation, is being attained. At the end of the day the Just Judge will determine how we've done with the gifts given, with more demanded of those given more (Luke 12:48). When you understand this simple and concise teaching, you'll better understand the gospel: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." It begins with faith, itself a gift of grace which brings us into relationship or communion with the Source of love, with that relationship, itself, constituting the right and just order of things for man; we were made for it. Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here: “If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 21, 2022 14:43:50 GMT -8
2. When you continue grounded and settled in the gospel in obedience unto righteousness in God’s goodness, you preserve that righteousness that was gifted/imputed to you (Colossians 1:23; Romans 11:22; Romans 6:16).
Haha.....what is more Ludicrous than * EARNING A GIFT* by your ability to “ stay grounded” and “ Stay Settled”.......You totally Unbiblical and Ignorant view of a “ Gift” has nothing to do with what a Gift actually is ( check your dictionary, please) ......what you are describing is not a “ GIFT!” What you are describing is a “ Trade- Off!”...... a five year old could see the difference....( unless, of course, they were too “ Stiff- Necked” to admit it)
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 21, 2022 15:00:34 GMT -8
3. If you sin willfully, obeying sin unto death , after you have been converted, you mock God and trample over the Son of God. If you do this you will be worse off than before you believed the gospel and will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers (Hebrews 10:26-29; Romans 6:16; Galatians 6:7-8; 2 Peter 2:21; Luke 11:26; John 5:14)
Take it to the bank!
* Yawn*.....Yet another complete Twisting of Hebrews 10 into something that it isn’t.....Here is a Stellar example of how the willful ignorance of just One Verse Of Scripture That is placed at the heart of a Confused man’s “ Doctrine” leads to a brain full of “Religious Mush” —— It’s “all over the map” with verses taken out of context ( as always) and in the end, it just descends into religious Hog Wash.....
That “ Bank” that you refer to ? It’s as BANKRUPT as your so- called Doctrine.....
Any Newbies out there that have “,eyes to see” , check out the simple Truths behind Hebrews 10 and Hebrews 6 ......Google “ Andrew Farley Heb 6 and 10”...... you will sleep better when you understand that these ‘ scary” verses were never meant to instill fear in Believers...
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 15:42:52 GMT -8
3. If you sin willfully, obeying sin unto death , after you have been converted, you mock God and trample over the Son of God. If you do this you will be worse off than before you believed the gospel and will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers (Hebrews 10:26-29; Romans 6:16; Galatians 6:7-8; 2 Peter 2:21; Luke 11:26; John 5:14) Take it to the bank! * Yawn*.....Yet another complete Twisting of Hebrews 10 into something that it isn’t.....Here is a Stellar example of how the willful ignorance of just One Verse Of Scripture That is placed at the heart of a Confused man’s “ Doctrine” leads to a brain full of “Religious Mush” —— It’s “all over the map” with verses taken out of context ( as always) and in the end, it just descends into religious Hog Wash..... That “ Bank” that you refer to ? It’s as BANKRUPT as your so- called Doctrine..... Any Newbies out there that have “,eyes to see” , check out the simple Truths behind Hebrews 10 and Hebrews 6 ......Google “ Andrew Farley Heb 6 and 10”...... you will sleep better when you understand that these ‘ scary” verses were never meant to instill fear in Believers... *Yawn*? LOL-your funny, but keep sleeping then and remain in the dark because that's what you're doing by ignoring Sripture or interpreting it to fit a novel theology. The "Bank" is your term, and so involves your own bankruptcy I guess. Believers are warned, exhorted, admonsihed, encouraged, etc, many times in Scripture for many reasons-all aimed at gaining and presevering their saved status. But ignore all that if you wish. Sleep well, ignoring the whole witness of the Christian church in the east and west and the ECFs while you live in a quasi-dreamland instead. Or not. Wisdom is possible to gain for anyone who sincerely seeks it. Myself, I sleep best by knowing and adhering to the truth. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 15:55:14 GMT -8
2. When you continue grounded and settled in the gospel in obedience unto righteousness in God’s goodness, you preserve that righteousness that was gifted/imputed to you (Colossians 1:23; Romans 11:22; Romans 6:16). Haha.....what is more Ludicrous than * EARNING A GIFT* by your ability to “ stay grounded” and “ Stay Settled”.......You totally Unbiblical and Ignorant view of a “ Gift” has nothing to do with what a Gift actually is ( check your dictionary, please) ......what you are describing is not a “ GIFT!” What you are describing is a “ Trade- Off!”...... a five year old could see the difference....( unless, of course, they were too “ Stiff- Necked” to admit it) “ More ignorance..gifts can be rejected. Or would that be some kind of revelation for you? Why don't you just stop a moment-take a deep breath-pray-consider that there may be more to know-and begin to think for yourself, reasoning with God instead of getting worked up by a theology which is deeply flawed and shallow? God never abandoned His people, weak vessels as they may be, and they were able to receive, preserve, and preach the gospel intact from the beginning, assembling the canon of the new testment at council, defining the deity of Christ and the Trinity at council, laying down the doctrine of the absolute necessity of grace in order for a man to be saved at council, etc, etc, in spite of their sinfulness and limitations. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 21, 2022 16:29:09 GMT -8
Legalism 101 your trying to earn salvation while denying it i will pray for you Study, Scripture and the ECFs for yourself, instead of through the lens of private interpreters who came before you. You have a skewed and stifled gospel. God, simply, wants man's will involved, for our highest good, since Eden with our first foolish and bratty act of disobedeince, like a good parent who's aim is to ultimately produce something good and great out of what he began with. Man is a morally responsible being, and the measure of his justice or rightepusness is the extent to which we've chosen good over evil, the extent that we're near to God, the extent to which we love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then our neighbor as ourselves, all with His help but not by coercion or totally overwhelming our wills. Love, that He has for us and that He wants us to have, is both a gift and a choice, daily, to embrace and act upon that gift. And then it grows. And then our very purpose, coinciding with our salvation, is being attained. At the end of the day the Just Judge will determine how we've done with the gifts given, with more demanded of those given more (Luke 12:48). When you understand this simple and concise teaching, you'll better understand the gospel: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." It begins with faith, itself a gift of grace which brings us into relationship or communion with the Source of love, with that relationship, itself, constituting the right and just order of things for man; we were made for it. Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here: “If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea I have studied scriture true believers will do good works. Because they are saved. Fake believers will do works in order to try to earn their salvation. Just like the jews did. If you want to be under the law. You are under the curse. Because cursed is the one who does not obey every word.. |
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Post by michaiah on Aug 21, 2022 16:44:57 GMT -8
bloodbought1953 said: Look up “IF” in the dictionary. You don’t seem to know what it means. Even Mr. Farley should know what it means… “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: ***** IF IF IF IF IF IF ****** … if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister” (Colossians 1:21-23)
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Post by michaiah on Aug 21, 2022 16:49:50 GMT -8
eternallygrateful said But: “…Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 18:03:25 GMT -8
Study, Scripture and the ECFs for yourself, instead of through the lens of private interpreters who came before you. You have a skewed and stifled gospel. God, simply, wants man's will involved, for our highest good, since Eden with our first foolish and bratty act of disobedeince, like a good parent who's aim is to ultimately produce something good and great out of what he began with. Man is a morally responsible being, and the measure of his justice or rightepusness is the extent to which we've chosen good over evil, the extent that we're near to God, the extent to which we love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then our neighbor as ourselves, all with His help but not by coercion or totally overwhelming our wills. Love, that He has for us and that He wants us to have, is both a gift and a choice, daily, to embrace and act upon that gift. And then it grows. And then our very purpose, coinciding with our salvation, is being attained. At the end of the day the Just Judge will determine how we've done with the gifts given, with more demanded of those given more (Luke 12:48). When you understand this simple and concise teaching, you'll better understand the gospel: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." It begins with faith, itself a gift of grace which brings us into relationship or communion with the Source of love, with that relationship, itself, constituting the right and just order of things for man; we were made for it. Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here: “If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea I have studied scriture true believers will do good works. Because they are saved. Fake believers will do works in order to try to earn their salvation. Just like the jews did. If you want to be under the law. You are under the curse. Because cursed is the one who does not obey every word.. True believers sin. So which is it? Do true believers automatically refrain from sin, or must they overcome it in order to inherit eternal life as Scripture insists? To understand that believers are able now to be genuinely righteous, as opposed to mere law-abiders,is to be on the right track. Righteousness isn't only declared of believers but given to them at justification. Not all accept that. Next is to understand that we're obligated to remain in and walk in that light. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 21, 2022 20:18:52 GMT -8
Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here:
“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea
Ol’ Basil was a very smart guy! Some people “ Get It” and some people never will....Cesarea should be proud of this man—- he REALLY Got it!
Was it St.Augustine that said , “ Love God and live as you please “ .....not sure.....regardless, he was Another Guy That “ Got It”......
I apologize for mentioning this stuff.....I know that it really puts knots in the panties of Tares, Religionists and Legalists.....as the kids say, “ My Bad”......Lol....
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 21, 2022 21:02:18 GMT -8
*Yawn*? LOL-your funny, but keep sleeping then and remain in the dark because that's what you're doing by ignoring Sripture or interpreting it to fit a novel theology.
The "Bank" is your term, and so involves your own bankruptcy I guess. Believers are warned, exhorted, admonsihed, encouraged, etc, many times in Scripture for many reasons-all aimed at gaining and presevering their saved status. But ignore all that if you wish. Sleep well, ignoring the whole witness of the Christian church in the east and west and the ECFs while you live in a quasi-dreamland instead. Or not. Wisdom is possible to gain for anyone who sincerely seeks it. Myself, I sleep best by knowing and adhering to the truth.
I sleep like a baby.....and it all starts by knowing FIRST how to “ REST” ......If you are not “RESTING” , you are “ WORKING”, and God won’t have it! ......I REST in the “Finished Work Of The Cross” —- That Plus * NOTHING* as far as Salvation is concerned....If you refuse to “ SABBATH” or “ REST”,in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing , God will declare you guilty of “ disobedience” and “ UNBELIEF”.....VERY serious Accusations, my Confused Friend.....Please don't Take my Word for anything—-Read it for yourself in Hebrews chapters Three and Four....You May not sleep so well once you discover the Curse that you are under for not RESTING in the Gospel 1 Cor15:1-4.....
We must ALL “* BELIEVE** that Gospel to be Saved —— you PROVE that you actually BELIEVE it by RESTING in it.....That Gospel That Saves is NOT about what “ man” does for “God”——- it’s what “ God” has done for “ man!” ........Get THAT settled ....get Saved.....get the Holy Spirit in you , and THEN you can concern yourself with the admonishments Of Paul —— those things that FOLLOW our Salvation as God does HIS Job Of Transforming us into the Image Of His Son—- something that only HE can do.....a man can “ change”, but only God can “ Transform”.....
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 23:36:23 GMT -8
Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here: “If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea Ol’ Basil was a very smart guy! Some people “ Get It” and some people never will....Cesarea should be proud of this man—- he REALLY Got it! Was it St.Augustine that said , “ Love God and live as you please “ .....not sure.....regardless, he was Another Guy That “ Got It”...... I apologize for mentioning this stuff.....I know that it really puts knots in the panties of Tares, Religionists and Legalists.....as the kids say, “ My Bad”......Lol... Deleted post |
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 23:38:44 GMT -8
Love is not legalistic, but it obeys the law nonethless. I'll quote a 4th century believer here: “If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” Basil of Cesarea Ol’ Basil was a very smart guy! Some people “ Get It” and some people never will....Cesarea should be proud of this man—- he REALLY Got it! Was it St.Augustine that said , “ Love God and live as you please “ .....not sure.....regardless, he was Another Guy That “ Got It”...... I apologize for mentioning this stuff.....I know that it really puts knots in the panties of Tares, Religionists and Legalists.....as the kids say, “ My Bad”......Lol... Yep, they got it. Augustine could win the conciseness award. “Love and do what you will”, is the way I’ve usually heard it phrased. It’s understood he’s speaking of agape there. Here’s another one from him, “Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing.” |
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Post by hansen on Aug 22, 2022 0:38:38 GMT -8
*Yawn*? LOL-your funny, but keep sleeping then and remain in the dark because that's what you're doing by ignoring Sripture or interpreting it to fit a novel theology. The "Bank" is your term, and so involves your own bankruptcy I guess. Believers are warned, exhorted, admonsihed, encouraged, etc, many times in Scripture for many reasons-all aimed at gaining and presevering their saved status. But ignore all that if you wish. Sleep well, ignoring the whole witness of the Christian church in the east and west and the ECFs while you live in a quasi-dreamland instead. Or not. Wisdom is possible to gain for anyone who sincerely seeks it. Myself, I sleep best by knowing and adhering to the truth. I sleep like a baby.....and it all starts by knowing FIRST how to “ REST” ......If you are not “RESTING” , you are “ WORKING”, and God won’t have it! ......I REST in the “Finished Work Of The Cross” —- That Plus * NOTHING* as far as Salvation is concerned....If you refuse to “ SABBATH” or “ REST”,in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing , God will declare you guilty of “ disobedience” and “ UNBELIEF”.....VERY serious Accusations, my Confused Friend.....Please don't Take my Word for anything—-Read it for yourself in Hebrews chapters Three and Four....You May not sleep so well once you discover the Curse that you are under for not RESTING in the Gospel 1 Cor15:1-4..... We must ALL “* BELIEVE** that Gospel to be Saved —— you PROVE that you actually BELIEVE it by RESTING in it.....That Gospel That Saves is NOT about what “ man” does for “God”——- it’s what “ God” has done for “ man!” ........Get THAT settled ....get Saved.....get the Holy Spirit in you , and THEN you can concern yourself with the admonishments Of Paul —— those things that FOLLOW our Salvation as God does HIS Job Of Transforming us into the Image Of His Son—- something that only HE can do.....a man can “ change”, but only God can “ Transform”..... Ok, so apparently now Hebrews applies to all, not just the Jews. Good. So we rest, but we better not if we’re enmeshed in sin. Paul always associates the need for faith with righteous living because with faith comes the gift of righteousness, that we must act upon and walk in. In Heb 3 God was angry with those who sinned. Those who believed did not sin because they did not have sinful hearts. Sin is lawlessness, meaning that, if we’re breaking the law our faith is fruitless. So Paul warns the believers not to be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Heb 10 goes on to say, “ If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” Heb 10:26-27 echoed in 12:14: “ Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.”
Jesus’s burden is light, not nonexistent. Again, believers are continuously warned to remain faithful, remain in Christ, be vigilant, persevere, strive, refrain from sin, love, be perfect, be holy, do good, put to death the deeds of the flesh. If resting and trusting excludes any of that need, for our awareness and attentiveness, then we’ve chosen to focus only on those isolated parts of Scripture we prefer. The real bottom line, again, is that those who love well have nothing to fear. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 22, 2022 4:03:28 GMT -8
I have studied scriture true believers will do good works. Because they are saved. Fake believers will do works in order to try to earn their salvation. Just like the jews did. If you want to be under the law. You are under the curse. Because cursed is the one who does not obey every word.. True believers sin. So which is it? Do true believers automatically refrain from sin, or must they overcome it in order to inherit eternal life as Scripture insists? To understand that believers are able now to be genuinely righteous, as opposed to mere law-abiders,is to be on the right track. Righteousness isn't only declared of believers but given to them at justification. Not all accept that. Next is to understand that we're obligated to remain in and walk in that light. The one who overcomes is the one who believes. It is he who is given the right to become children of God. 1 john 5: 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.5; Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:Look at hebrews The wall of fame of people who had faith. THEY ALL WORKED. Because they had faith. The same author who said it is our faith that overcomes the world. Said whoever is born of God can not continue in a life of sin. Once again my friend, If you think you will overcome based on your works. You will fail miserably. I recommend instead of being like the pharisee and pumping your chest. You become like Saul. And get on your knees. God is calling you |
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