|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 21:21:26 GMT -8
be perfect
I was doing pretty good till I ran across that one—— how did “ You” reach that level ? That “ Perfection” Thingy......
I gave it a shot once or twice.....I just could not do it....Thank God, I found a “ Loop Hole!”......You can find it too! Check out the “Good News” ......I don’t have to be “ Perfect” ......All I have to do is put my Total Trust in the One that “ WAS” Perfect.....If I simply Believe the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4, God will “ SEE” me as “ Perfect”—— Just as perfect as His Son—— it’s that “ IMPUTATION” Thing.
If I simply BELIEVE on THE ONE THAT HE SENT, Jesus gets my sins and in turn, I get His Perfection.....
What a deal! What an example of Grace and Mercy! What an example of Love......I thank God for His Grace and His Mercy.....I ESPECIALLY thank Him for His Love .....
|
|
|
|
Post by hansen on Aug 22, 2022 21:24:54 GMT -8
Absolute certainty of salvation is a falacious notion. “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE Saved” Any comments? Anyone who stops caring about being saved can stop being saved. Anyone can turn back away from the relationship with God that saves him, failing to remain in that fellowship. |
|
|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 22:07:32 GMT -8
To put it concisely, again, we'll be judged on our love at the end of the day. We'll be judged on how weve been changed,
Interesting theory, but if you want to go by the Bible,Paul said that we will ALL be Judged by “ his Gospel “ (Romans 2:16).......Paul’s Gospel ( formerly a Secret of God, and revealed to Paul by Jesus personally) has nothing to do with anything that man does for God—- it’s all about what a God of Grace and Mercy has done for Fallen and lost man.....read all about it —- 1Cor15:1-4.......
|
|
|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 22:10:25 GMT -8
Anyone who stops caring about being saved can stop being saved. Anyone can turn back away from the relationship with God that saves him, failing to remain in that fellowship.
In that case, God is a Liar......He never said “ Anybody That asks to be Saved will be put on PROBATION”....... *That * is what you are declaring in your Confusion....
|
|
|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 22:16:09 GMT -8
Anyone who stops caring about being saved can stop being saved. Anyone can turn back away from the relationship with God that saves him, failing to remain in that fellowship.
1Cor1:8. “ It is God that will keep you Strong and declare you BLAMELESS on Judgement Day.....He is Faithful”
|
|
|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 22:27:05 GMT -8
Care to give scripture references re "anyone who stops caring about being saved can stop being saved?"
J.
While we are waiting I got something——-
Philippians 1:6. “ I can guarantee THIS—-The God that BEGAN this good work in you will not Stop until that work is completed on that Day that Christ Jesus returns....”
|
|
|
|
Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 22:52:43 GMT -8
be perfect I was doing pretty good till I ran across that one—— how did “ You” reach that level ? Having a dialogue with yourself bloodbought since I do not see any posts? J. I have no idea what you are referring to.....sorry.....I am a computer Dotard...... |
|
|
|
Post by mailmandan on Aug 23, 2022 3:52:38 GMT -8
......in your opinion..... Not my opinion at all. “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins… Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29) It's your opinion. In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics. If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here. *NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation. Strong's Concordance hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify Original Word: ἁγιάζω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hagiazó Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo) Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify. *In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture. In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. So after considering the CONTEXT, most likely "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the community of Hebrew Christian believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer. |
|
|
|
Post by michaiah on Aug 23, 2022 4:02:39 GMT -8
mailmandan said: The writer of Hebrews was saved Dan. He wrote, if we (including himself) sin wilfully (to any degree) we will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers. You are using the Greek improperly to pervert this scripture. The scriptures in totality plainly exposes your faulty Greek word play.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaiah on Aug 23, 2022 4:22:18 GMT -8
And another thing mailmandanDid Moses make a “practice” of not sanctifying the LORD? Yet that one incident of not sanctifying the LORD at the rock disqualified him from entering into the promised land (Numbers 20:8-13 KJV; Numbers 27:14 KJV). |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 4:34:37 GMT -8
Those who stop reading their Bibles believes this juvenilistict nonesense. 1. When you first repent and believe the gospel your sins at that time are forgiven by imputation of righteousness (Romans 4:24). 2. When you continue grounded and settled in the gospel in obedience unto righteousness in God’s goodness, you preserve that righteousness that was gifted/imputed to you (Colossians 1:23; Romans 11:22; Romans 6:16). 3. If you sin willfully, obeying sin unto death , after you have been converted, you mock God and trample over the Son of God. If you do this you will be worse off than before you believed the gospel and will suffer the same fate as the unbelievers (Hebrews 10:26-29; Romans 6:16; Galatians 6:7-8; 2 Peter 2:21; Luke 11:26; John 5:14) Take it to the bank!
Banks do not accept counterfeit currency.
As to points 1 and 2, what you are saying is that believers save themselves.
As to point 3, you are using a passage that teaches between the fate of Old Testament unbelievers and New Testament Unbelievers, and has nothing to do with New Testament Believers:
Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
"He that despised Moses' Law represents those who rejected God's will under the Law.
Verse 29 represents those who reject His will today. Not Christians that commit these offenses.
How exactly is one a born-again believer if they reject Christ, His Sacrifice, His Covenant, and the Ministry of the Comforter?
If that were the case, then we have the Writer of Hebrews saying the exact opposite of what He has just taught in the first part of this chapter.
So a question for you. What does the following verse mean:
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
God bless.
excellent post!! |
|
|
|
Post by michaiah on Aug 23, 2022 4:50:38 GMT -8
eternallygrateful P1LGR1MYou cannot refute my scripturally sound 3-points. I included scripture citations confirming my words. All you can do is explain them away or make long sectarian speeches. And any scripture citations you can cite will support your sectarian doctrine only after you have added leaven to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 5:04:58 GMT -8
Not sure re your salvation? Is it not written I truly doubt that everyone who's ever heard those words and applied them to themselves was/is necessarily saved, from the actual audience that they were first addressed to until today. Scripture employs hyperbole, encouragement, exhortation, along with warnings, admonishments, etc. Absolute certainty of salvation is a falacious notion. then NO one actually has faith Because faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen. If our hope has no assurance, it is impossible to have faith |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 5:07:45 GMT -8
Not my opinion at all. “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins… Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29) It's your opinion. In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics. If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here. *NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation. Strong's Concordance hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify Original Word: ἁγιάζω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hagiazó Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo) Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify. *In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture. In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. So after considering the CONTEXT, most likely "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the community of Hebrew Christian believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.Welcome Dan the man!! |
|
|
|
Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 5:11:22 GMT -8
Care to give scripture references re "anyone who stops caring about being saved can stop being saved?" J. While we are waiting I got something——- Philippians 1:6. “ I can guarantee THIS—-The God that BEGAN this good work in you will not Stop until that work is completed on that Day that Christ Jesus returns....” We have to read all the bible, and refrain from revising or reinterprting the parts that don't fit our theology. It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. Heb 6:4-9 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Rom 11:17-21 |
|
