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Post by gomer on Sept 15, 2022 8:33:47 GMT -8
The article puts forth the idea that some people speculate 'born of water" refers to the physical birth....here is a direct copy & paste quote from the article (my emp) " One perspective is that “born of water” refers to physical birth. Unborn babies float in a sack of amniotic fluid for nine months. When the time for birth arrives, that sack of water bursts, and the baby is born in a rush of water, entering the world as a new creature. This birth parallels being “born of the Spirit,” as a similar new birth occurs within our hearts (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person once-born has physical life; a person twice-born has eternal life (John 3:15–18, 36; 17:3; 1 Peter 1:23). Just as a baby contributes no effort to the birth process—the work is done by the mother—so it is with spiritual birth." This quote is what I DID read and responded to. I do not see where the article denied that possibility. Again, direct quite from the article (my emp) " Whichever perspective is correct, one thing is certain: Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context, nor did Jesus ever imply that we must do anything to inherit eternal life but trust in Him in faith (John 3:16)." This quote is riddled with theological error but it does NOT deny the perspective that born of water refers to the physical birth. Seems maybe that you didn't read the article. What the article denies is the truth......that Jesus did command water baptism, those who DOETH the will of the Father are the ones who enter the kingdom nor did Jesus ever teach belief only saves in Jn 3:16. One verse theology can lead to error as it does in the article. Jn 3:16 is an important verse but it is not the only verse that deals with salvation. Jn 3:16 does not tell us all about there is to know about salvation, Rarely does just one verse exhaust all there is to know about a particular subject. That`s a weird way to interpret phrases such as "was not teaching" and "nor did ever imply". Makes it hard to reason with you when you claim that those phrases are not a denial that it`s a possibility. "Whichever perspective is correct, one thing is certain: Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context, nor did Jesus ever imply that we must do anything to inherit eternal life but trust in Him in faith (John 3:16). The emphasis of Jesus' words is on repentance and spiritual renewal—we need the “living water” Jesus later promised the woman at the well (John 4:10). Water baptism is an outward sign that we have given our lives to Jesus, but not a requirement for salvation (Luke 23:40–43)." The article DENIES that "born of water" refers to water baptism for the article says " Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved" The article does NOT deny that "born of water" refers to the physical birth. If the article denies that born of water refers to the physical birth, then please post a quote from the article that shows that denial for I do not see it. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 15, 2022 8:45:49 GMT -8
That`s a weird way to interpret phrases such as "was not teaching" and "nor did ever imply". Makes it hard to reason with you when you claim that those phrases are not a denial that it`s a possibility. "Whichever perspective is correct, one thing is certain: Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context, nor did Jesus ever imply that we must do anything to inherit eternal life but trust in Him in faith (John 3:16). The emphasis of Jesus' words is on repentance and spiritual renewal—we need the “living water” Jesus later promised the woman at the well (John 4:10). Water baptism is an outward sign that we have given our lives to Jesus, but not a requirement for salvation (Luke 23:40–43)." The article DENIES that "born of water" refers to water baptism for the article says " Jesus was not teaching that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved" The article does NOT deny that "born of water" refers to the physical birth. If the article denies that born of water refers to the physical birth, then please post a quote from the article that shows that denial for I do not see it. Apparantly we are misunderstanding one another. |
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yacker
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Post by yacker on Sept 25, 2022 17:51:24 GMT -8
Actually, one needs to be careful with their theological biases, especially biases that puts God in a position of being a respecter of persons and making God culpable for the lost as the idea of monergism does. If baptism with the HS is necessary to be saved as some may claim, and being baptized with the HS is out of the control/choice of man and God alone determines who will or will not be baptized with the HS, then that puts God in a position of choosing 'winners and losers" having respect for those who were chosen to be winners and makes God culpable for the losers. Jn 3:16 does say "whosoever believeth" meaning man chooses for himself to believe or to perish, therefore God has no culpability in man's choices nor has respect of person's when man is choosing for himself to be saved or lost. Since water baptism as been commanded and it saves, then man chooses for himself to be water baptized and be saved or chooses to not be and be lost. And therefore again, God has no culpability nor has respect of persons when it comes to man making the choices. That is right or you will end up like you thinking your saved by getting wet but its not really real saved because you really get it at the end if you work for it and no one one can have the holy spirit today, its the most strange far out there theological bias as you call it I have ever seen when pretending to talk about the new testament, and its not Christianity because you leave out the cross of Christ, The new creation in Christ and the fact that you must be born again so not sure what your bias is but it has nothing to do with the new testament the new covenant in Jesus Blood, its really your effort and hope to pass, that's the crux of every worldly religion that opposes Gods Grace, You have to try your best and earn it and see at the end, that's a one way ticket to hell because you cant pay for your own sins, The bible says its by Gods Grace, through Faith in Jesus, and it is offered as a gift = Christ in you, the hope of glory Jesus Said You must be born again. He meant it |
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eleos
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God is Love.
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Post by eleos on Sept 27, 2022 11:23:51 GMT -8
was ... is .... Jesus a legalist?
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 27, 2022 18:15:09 GMT -8
was ... is .... Jesus a legalist? No and no......Jesus never preached The Law —- Jesus preached Himself—— “I” am the Way.....”I” am the Truth.....”I” am the Life”.... |
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yacker
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Post by yacker on Sept 27, 2022 22:27:34 GMT -8
was ... is .... Jesus a legalist? No and no......Jesus never preached The Law —- Jesus preached Himself—— “I” am the Way.....”I” am the Truth.....”I” am the Life”.... That might be the best answer in the history of internet forums! |
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Post by gomer on Sept 28, 2022 8:21:38 GMT -8
Actually, one needs to be careful with their theological biases, especially biases that puts God in a position of being a respecter of persons and making God culpable for the lost as the idea of monergism does. If baptism with the HS is necessary to be saved as some may claim, and being baptized with the HS is out of the control/choice of man and God alone determines who will or will not be baptized with the HS, then that puts God in a position of choosing 'winners and losers" having respect for those who were chosen to be winners and makes God culpable for the losers. Jn 3:16 does say "whosoever believeth" meaning man chooses for himself to believe or to perish, therefore God has no culpability in man's choices nor has respect of person's when man is choosing for himself to be saved or lost. Since water baptism as been commanded and it saves, then man chooses for himself to be water baptized and be saved or chooses to not be and be lost. And therefore again, God has no culpability nor has respect of persons when it comes to man making the choices. You have to try your best and earn it and see at the end, that's a one way ticket to hell because you cant pay for your own sins, You are not even able to provide a legitimate argument. |
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Post by gomer on Sept 28, 2022 8:24:57 GMT -8
was ... is .... Jesus a legalist? Depends on how a person defines "legalist" and people define it anyway they choose to define it. Jesus was perfectly obedient to the law thus perfectly sinless making Him the perfect sacrifice for man's sins. If obedience to God's will, obedience to God's law is legalism, then Jesus Christ was the biggest legalist to ever live. |
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eleos
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God is Love.
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Post by eleos on Sept 28, 2022 9:26:31 GMT -8
No and no......Jesus never preached The Law —- Jesus preached Himself—— “I” am the Way.....”I” am the Truth.....”I” am the Life”.... That might be the best answer in the history of internet forums! He most certainly did. Made it clear that the law was still in force (Matthew 5:17-20). Commanded people to keep the law (Luke 17:12-14, Mark 10:17-19, John 8:3-7). Observed the law himself (Galatians 4:4, Psalms 40:7-9, Hebrews 10:7). |
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eleos
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God is Love.
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Post by eleos on Sept 28, 2022 9:38:50 GMT -8
gomer Thanks for posting that. People should be parroting the words of God, not the words of men. In many discussions regarding ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED it never fails that the pejorative “LEGALIST” will come up by those who have been trained to do so by their earthly masters. Sin is transgression of the law .... God does not want us to sin. The law (written in our hearts) leads us to Christ, after one receives Him He leads us back to the law and sends the Holy Spirit to help us overcome sin (transgression of the law) .... when that happens .... Praise God for what HE does in us. Overcoming sin (transgression of the law) is not being a "legalist" ... it is the work of Christ in the believer and we should recognize His help and be thankful for it. When one says we should keep the law .... we should .... only through Christ is that possible ... and HE gets all the glory. |
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yacker
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Post by yacker on Sept 28, 2022 14:28:49 GMT -8
You have to try your best and earn it and see at the end, that's a one way ticket to hell because you cant pay for your own sins, You are not even able to provide a legitimate argument. You are not able to provide a legitimate response to Jesus Saying you must be born again. |
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yacker
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Post by yacker on Sept 28, 2022 16:22:28 GMT -8
That might be the best answer in the history of internet forums! He most certainly did. Made it clear that the law was still in force (Matthew 5:17-20). Commanded people to keep the law (Luke 17:12-14, Mark 10:17-19, John 8:3-7). Observed the law himself (Galatians 4:4, Psalms 40:7-9, Hebrews 10:7). You answered the wrong person, First rule #1 Galations 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. The law is great for showing sin, it shows your a sinner, Jesus had to be under the law to fulfil the law, The law is great if you know how to use it. The wages of sin is death but Jesus was without sin so death couldn't keep hold of him Now if you use the law to determine you are a sinner then you can move on to the cross to find the solution Love fulfills the Law, And Jesus is The Love that God gave the world, So when you love also you would uphold the law and not be breaking it but its spiritual, The Letter kills but the spirit gives life, 2 Corinthians 3:6 |
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 28, 2022 17:06:32 GMT -8
The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ.
It's like a mirror. the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness.
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yacker
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Post by yacker on Sept 28, 2022 19:46:23 GMT -8
The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ. It's like a mirror. the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. So If it reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God to you, you should also see you fall far short Jesus reflects the perfect righteousness of God as he proved he was without sin, Also he is the image of the invisible God Colossians 1:15 , And is the exact image of his person Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is the only one that can show us who his Father is, And Grace and truth come by Jesus not through the law, The Law can show a sinner they are dead, Jesus shows us that God is Love and That he gives Life Now if you are in the Light then you can start trying to express the love you feel, but you don't do that by running to the mirror and start trying to see how good you look do you? |
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Post by Obadiah on Sept 29, 2022 5:21:43 GMT -8
The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ. It's like a mirror. the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. So If it reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God to you, you should also see you fall far short Jesus reflects the perfect righteousness of God as he proved he was without sin, Also he is the image of the invisible God Colossians 1:15 , And is the exact image of his person Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is the only one that can show us who his Father is, And Grace and truth come by Jesus not through the law, The Law can show a sinner they are dead, Jesus shows us that God is Love and That he gives Life Now if you are in the Light then you can start trying to express the love you feel, but you don't do that by running to the mirror and start trying to see how good you look do you? I think you missed the point as my post Reflects what you're saying. The mirror is a metaphor. met·a·phor [ˈmedəˌfôr, ˈmedəˌfər] NOUN a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable. |
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