Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 7:25:07 GMT -8
To say "There is no saving efficacy in water." is to say that water is not necessary for salvation. One must be clear when making comments. Since obedience is necessary for salvation then water baptism is necessary for salvation. Water baptism is not a show as many people claim. If it was then a person would remain wet forever to show he was baptized. How do we know a person was baptized if we were not present? Baptism is a command from our Lord. water baptism is no more required in the NT church than circumcision was required in the OT church for salvation. One must be careful to attribute to man the work of God. Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. in that case you are saying baptism is an everlasting covenant.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 7:38:40 GMT -8
Baptism is a command from the Lord. We must obey commands. The thief went to hell. Jesus was in hell also. Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. God gave many commands. you can not isolate one command as essential and ignore the rest Either we are required to obey all his commands (be perfect) or we recieve him in grace because we have failed to keep his commands as required Baptism is one of those commands. I am not isolating it . I am pointing out that it is a command and not just a show as some teach. Your either or scenario is rubbish. We are required to keep all his commands. If, If, If we sin we have an advocate... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 7:48:11 GMT -8
And if we stop believing, we don't have that promise anymore. The Holy Spirit doesn't leave people, they leave Him. ....Romans 8:39......” NOTHING in God's Total Creation can separate us from the Love Of God”.......That “Nothing “ would include YOU wouldn’t you think ? Aren’t you a part of God’s Creation? ” NOTHING in the FUTURE can take us from His Grip” .....If you were in His Grip and got Saved and then sometime later down the road , you decided that you wanted to escape that Grip, that decision to leave instead of staying would be something that happened in the Future , would it not? Sorry—— once your “ IN” , you are “ IN” for good——God has all the bases covered.....He’s GOT you and He is going to “ FINISH” the Good Work That He started.....* HE is the One that promises to “ keep you strong”, and present your as “ BLAMELESS “ on Judgement Day..... you.... the scripture says... Rom 8: 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. You said..NOTHING in God's Total Creation can separate us from the Love Of God”.......That “Nothing “ would include YOU wouldn’t you think ? Aren’t you a part of God’s Creation? ” NOTHING in the FUTURE can take us from His Grip” .....If you were in His Grip and got Saved and then sometime later down the road , you decided that you wanted to escape that Grip, that decision to leave instead of staying would be something that happened in the Future , would it not? Sorry—— once your “ IN” , you are “ IN” for good Those are two different things sir.. If you simply repeat what Paul said there is no way you can come up with what you wrote... 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. |
|
|
|
Post by gomer on Aug 23, 2022 8:19:27 GMT -8
Rom 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---In the context Paul is not talking about salvation being an unconditional guarantee but is speaking about being separated from the love of God.
---of all the things Paul mentions, the one thing the Christian does have control over is his persuasion/conviction/his trust/belief. The Christian does not have control over the external things...things that happen beyond his own circumstances. Paul as a Christian had many bad things happen to him from persecutions, to hunger, distress, shipwreck etc., but he did not allow these external things to cause him to lose his conviction whereby he began to think God did not love him. Through all the external bad things Paul kept his eye on the cross for that was always his proof God loved him.....he did not allow these external things cause him to lose his conviction/persuasion/trust/belief.
---this is why some Christians fail because they allow the externals to cause them to lose their conviction whereby they become separated from the love of God. Jude warned "keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 1:21) with the imperative implying that the Christian can allow himself to be separated from the love of God. They failed to keep their eyes on the cross which is the proof of God's love for them by allowing some external thing(s) to cause them to lose their conviction.
---case in point is some of the Christians in Galatia did not maintain their belief/conviction by allowing something external to them (false teachers) to cause them to lose their conviction. The same Greek word Paul used in Rom 8:38 for "persuaded" is the same Greek word he used in Gal 3:1 where they "obeyed not".....they lost their belief/persuasion because of those false teachers. Paul uses it again in Gal 5:7 in which the CSB renders this verse "You were running well. Who prevented you from being persuaded regarding the truth?" Again, the one thing Paul mentions in Rom 8:38-39 that the Christian has control over is his persuasion/conviction and those Galatians did not keep that control allowing the external ("any other creature") (v39) to separate them from God's love whereby they became lost, falling from grace having been deceived into following a false gospel.
|
|
|
|
Post by gomer on Aug 23, 2022 8:38:15 GMT -8
Yes, baptism is a burial, (Rom 6:3-5) and not a sprinkling or pouring. we have to make sure we get the context of baptism correct There is a spiritual baptism, which is of the Holy SPirit and there is a physical baptism, which is performed by men. PS. Rom six is spirit baptism not physical. There is "one baptism" that is in effect today that being Christ's water baptism of the great commission. No one today is baptized with the HS. Rom 6 speaks of a literal "burial" from which one is literally "raised up from". If this were some "Spirit baptism" then one is 'buried' in the Spirit but then one is " raised up from" the Spirit and does not maintain the Spirit he claims to have. Nowhere ever was baptism with the HS ever commanded to anyone, yet water baptism IS commanded to all men. In the context of Rom 6:7 one must become "dead" to be freed from sin/justified. From the context it is water baptism when one dies to sin, the old man of sin is "dead" and buried in a watery grave, then raised up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life. But note in Rom 6:17-18 it took " obeying from the heart" to be freed from sin. Comparing verses: v07-------------"dead" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freed from sin/justified vs17-18-------"obeyed from the heart" >>>>>> freed from sin/justified There is just one way to be saved/freed from sin/justified...no alternatives. Since it took "obeying" for them to be justified (vs17-18) and it also takes being "dead" to be justified (v7) then it must have been water baptism they obeyed from the heart where they became "dead" to sin...their old man of sin died, was buried in a watery grave whereby they were then "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of life. Again, NOWHERE ever was baptism with the HS commanded therefore cannot be obeyed, nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS makes one "dead", nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS justifies, nowhere ever is baptism with the HS said to be a burial from which one is raised up from/resurrected from. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 8:56:12 GMT -8
water baptism is no more required in the NT church than circumcision was required in the OT church for salvation. One must be careful to attribute to man the work of God. Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. in that case you are saying baptism is an everlasting covenant.. No one was saved through circumcision Paul made it clear. if anyone tried to add circumcision to the gospel. they are accursed. The gospel has been the same as day 1 |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 8:57:21 GMT -8
God gave many commands. you can not isolate one command as essential and ignore the rest Either we are required to obey all his commands (be perfect) or we recieve him in grace because we have failed to keep his commands as required Baptism is one of those commands. I am not isolating it . I am pointing out that it is a command and not just a show as some teach. Your either or scenario is rubbish. We are required to keep all his commands. If, If, If we sin we have an advocate... I agree it is a command, and we should do it as we should obey all of Gods commands But if we add it as a requirement to be saved. then we have perverted the gospel of Christ.. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 9:07:42 GMT -8
we have to make sure we get the context of baptism correct There is a spiritual baptism, which is of the Holy SPirit and there is a physical baptism, which is performed by men. PS. Rom six is spirit baptism not physical. There is "one baptism" that is in effect today that being Christ's water baptism of the great commission. No one today is baptized with the HS. Rom 6 speaks of a literal "burial" from which one is literally "raised up from". If this were some "Spirit baptism" then one is 'buried' in the Spirit but then one is " raised up from" the Spirit and does not maintain the Spirit he claims to have. Nowhere ever was baptism with the HS ever commanded to anyone, yet water baptism IS commanded to all men. In the context of Rom 6:7 one must become "dead" to be freed from sin/justified. From the context it is water baptism when one dies to sin, the old man of sin is "dead" and buried in a watery grave, then raised up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life. But note in Rom 6:17-18 it took " obeying from the heart" to be freed from sin. Comparing verses: v07-------------"dead" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freed from sin/justified vs17-18-------"obeyed from the heart" >>>>>> freed from sin/justified There is just one way to be saved/freed from sin/justified...no alternatives. Since it took "obeying" for them to be justified (vs17-18) and it also takes being "dead" to be justified (v7) then it must have been water baptism they obeyed from the heart where they became "dead" to sin...their old man of sin died, was buried in a watery grave whereby they were then "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of life. Again, NOWHERE ever was baptism with the HS commanded therefore cannot be obeyed, nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS makes one "dead", nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS justifies, nowhere ever is baptism with the HS said to be a burial from which one is raised up from/resurrected from. if this is true, then no one is saved. Because only through the baptism of the HS can one be washed with the washing of regeneration of the HS.. romans 6 is the act of God himself BAPTIZING us INTO THE DEATH of christ. It is the act of GOD himself BAPTIZING US INTO CHRIST our spiritual head (much like the children of Israel were baptized into Moses... it is not any act of baptizing in water. If it was water baptism, he would say baptized in water, not in christ it would say baptized into water, not his death, Your also right, that baptism in the spirit was not commanded, because it is not something we can do., it is something that happens to us at the point of salvation However, we see John tells the people (and us) that Jesus will baptize with the HS. We have jesus telling his people (and us) that we will be baptized with the HS. We have paul tell us that it is the spiritual baptism that is God spiritually circumcising us with the hands of God not men (col 2) and we have paul tell us in his letter to titus that it is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done (Water baptism is a work of righteousness, because we obey his command) but by Gods mercy that he saved us through the washing and reneal of THE HOLY SPIRIT Not through a sinner immersing us in water |
|
|
|
Post by gomer on Aug 23, 2022 9:23:23 GMT -8
There is "one baptism" that is in effect today that being Christ's water baptism of the great commission. No one today is baptized with the HS. Rom 6 speaks of a literal "burial" from which one is literally "raised up from". If this were some "Spirit baptism" then one is 'buried' in the Spirit but then one is " raised up from" the Spirit and does not maintain the Spirit he claims to have. Nowhere ever was baptism with the HS ever commanded to anyone, yet water baptism IS commanded to all men. In the context of Rom 6:7 one must become "dead" to be freed from sin/justified. From the context it is water baptism when one dies to sin, the old man of sin is "dead" and buried in a watery grave, then raised up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life. But note in Rom 6:17-18 it took " obeying from the heart" to be freed from sin. Comparing verses: v07-------------"dead" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freed from sin/justified vs17-18-------"obeyed from the heart" >>>>>> freed from sin/justified There is just one way to be saved/freed from sin/justified...no alternatives. Since it took "obeying" for them to be justified (vs17-18) and it also takes being "dead" to be justified (v7) then it must have been water baptism they obeyed from the heart where they became "dead" to sin...their old man of sin died, was buried in a watery grave whereby they were then "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of life. Again, NOWHERE ever was baptism with the HS commanded therefore cannot be obeyed, nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS makes one "dead", nowhere ever does the Bible say baptism with the HS justifies, nowhere ever is baptism with the HS said to be a burial from which one is raised up from/resurrected from. if this is true, then no one is saved. Because only through the baptism of the HS can one be washed with the washing of regeneration of the HS.. romans 6 is the act of God himself BAPTIZING us INTO THE DEATH of christ. It is the act of GOD himself BAPTIZING US INTO CHRIST our spiritual head (much like the children of Israel were baptized into Moses... it is not any act of baptizing in water. If it was water baptism, he would say baptized in water, not in christ it would say baptized into water, not his death, Your also right, that baptism in the spirit was not commanded, because it is not something we can do., it is something that happens to us at the point of salvation However, we see John tells the people (and us) that Jesus will baptize with the HS. We have jesus telling his people (and us) that we will be baptized with the HS. We have paul tell us that it is the spiritual baptism that is God spiritually circumcising us with the hands of God not men (col 2) and we have paul tell us in his letter to titus that it is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done (Water baptism is a work of righteousness, because we obey his command) but by Gods mercy that he saved us through the washing and reneal of THE HOLY SPIRIT Not through a sinner immersing us in water Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration occurs by being baptized with the HS but regeneration occurs in water baptism where God does the work of cutting away the body of sin whereby then one walks in newness of life...as with the eunuch who was water baptized NOT baptized with the HS. Rom 6:4 says " Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." --2 Thess 1:8 says in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who...... obey NOT the gospel of Christ.... proving obedience is necessary to being saved/to not be in flaming fire. --for one to obey the gospel of Christ, one must know what the gospel of Christ is...1 Cor 15:1-4 the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. --how then does one obey those historical facts of Christ's death burial and resurrection? --Rom 6:1-5 when one is water baptized, one dies to sin, the old man of sins therefore DIES, is BURIED in a watery grave then resurrected, then " THAT LIKE CHRIST" (v4) one is "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of Christ. There is no death burial and resurrection that takes place with baptism with the HS or with faith only or in saying a "sinner's prayer". Obeying the gospel only can take place at the point of being water baptized. From my last post, one must be "dead" to be justified and it took obedience for those Romans to be justified. Therefore it took obedience in obeying Christ's command to be water baptized (no one was ever commanded to be baptized with the HS), it took obedience in being water baptized for them to obey the gospel of Christ per above (2 Thess 1:8) and it took obedience in being water baptized before they walked in newness of life. The fact water baptism is commanded if for no other reason makes it essential to being saved. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 23, 2022 9:33:32 GMT -8
if this is true, then no one is saved. Because only through the baptism of the HS can one be washed with the washing of regeneration of the HS.. romans 6 is the act of God himself BAPTIZING us INTO THE DEATH of christ. It is the act of GOD himself BAPTIZING US INTO CHRIST our spiritual head (much like the children of Israel were baptized into Moses... it is not any act of baptizing in water. If it was water baptism, he would say baptized in water, not in christ it would say baptized into water, not his death, Your also right, that baptism in the spirit was not commanded, because it is not something we can do., it is something that happens to us at the point of salvation However, we see John tells the people (and us) that Jesus will baptize with the HS. We have jesus telling his people (and us) that we will be baptized with the HS. We have paul tell us that it is the spiritual baptism that is God spiritually circumcising us with the hands of God not men (col 2) and we have paul tell us in his letter to titus that it is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done (Water baptism is a work of righteousness, because we obey his command) but by Gods mercy that he saved us through the washing and reneal of THE HOLY SPIRIT Not through a sinner immersing us in water Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration occurs by being baptized with the HS but regeneration occurs in water baptism where God does the work of cutting away the body of sin whereby then one walks in newness of life...as with the eunuch who was water baptized NOT baptized with the HS. Rom 6:4 says " Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." --2 Thess 1:8 says in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who...... obey NOT the gospel of Christ.... proving obedience is necessary to being saved/to not be in flaming fire. --for one to obey the gospel of Christ, one must know what the gospel of Christ is...1 Cor 15:1-4 the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. --how then does one obey those historical facts of Christ's death burial and resurrection? --Rom 6:1-5 when one is water baptized, one dies to sin, the old man of sins therefore DIES, is BURIED in a watery grave then resurrected, then " THAT LIKE CHRIST" (v4) one is "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of Christ. There is no death burial and resurrection that takes place with baptism with the HS or with faith only or in saying a "sinner's prayer". Obeying the gospel only can take place at the point of being water baptized. From my last post, one must be "dead" to be justified and it took obedience for those Romans to be justified. Therefore it took obedience in obeying Christ's command to be water baptized (no one was ever commanded to be baptized with the HS), it took obedience in being water baptized for them to obey the gospel of Christ per above (2 Thess 1:8) and it took obedience in being water baptized before they walked in newness of life. The fact water baptism is commanded if for no other reason makes it essential to being saved. titus 3: 5: not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
its the HS who does the work of your salvation my friend. Not some pastor who needs saved himself. |
|
|
|
Post by gomer on Aug 23, 2022 18:10:57 GMT -8
Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration occurs by being baptized with the HS but regeneration occurs in water baptism where God does the work of cutting away the body of sin whereby then one walks in newness of life...as with the eunuch who was water baptized NOT baptized with the HS. Rom 6:4 says " Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." --2 Thess 1:8 says in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who...... obey NOT the gospel of Christ.... proving obedience is necessary to being saved/to not be in flaming fire. --for one to obey the gospel of Christ, one must know what the gospel of Christ is...1 Cor 15:1-4 the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. --how then does one obey those historical facts of Christ's death burial and resurrection? --Rom 6:1-5 when one is water baptized, one dies to sin, the old man of sins therefore DIES, is BURIED in a watery grave then resurrected, then " THAT LIKE CHRIST" (v4) one is "raised up from" that watery grave to walk in newness of Christ. There is no death burial and resurrection that takes place with baptism with the HS or with faith only or in saying a "sinner's prayer". Obeying the gospel only can take place at the point of being water baptized. From my last post, one must be "dead" to be justified and it took obedience for those Romans to be justified. Therefore it took obedience in obeying Christ's command to be water baptized (no one was ever commanded to be baptized with the HS), it took obedience in being water baptized for them to obey the gospel of Christ per above (2 Thess 1:8) and it took obedience in being water baptized before they walked in newness of life. The fact water baptism is commanded if for no other reason makes it essential to being saved. titus 3: 5: not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
its the HS who does the work of your salvation my friend. Not some pastor who needs saved himself. 1) Acts 10:35 one must work God's righteousness to be accepted with God....(Rom 6:16) "obedience unto righteousness" 2) " works of righteousness we have done" does not refer to obedience to God's will (see #1 above) but refers to works man has devised himself as a means to justification. Rom 10:3 those Jews were lost for they went about trying to establish their OWN righteousness that does not save instead of obeying GOD'S righteousness (as water baptism) that does save. 3) note in Tts 3:5 how those works of righteousness man devices are contrasted from "washing of regeneration" which refers to water baptism. Hence water baptism is not a work man contrived but is from God, being water baptized is obeying God's righteousness. |
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 1:38:34 GMT -8
titus 3: 5: not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
its the HS who does the work of your salvation my friend. Not some pastor who needs saved himself. 1) Acts 10:35 one must work God's righteousness to be accepted with God....(Rom 6:16) "obedience unto righteousness" 2) " works of righteousness we have done" does not refer to obedience to God's will (see #1 above) but refers to works man has devised himself as a means to justification. Rom 10:3 those Jews were lost for they went about trying to establish their OWN righteousness that does not save instead of obeying GOD'S righteousness (as water baptism) that does save. 3) note in Tts 3:5 how those works of righteousness man devices are contrasted from "washing of regeneration" which refers to water baptism. Hence water baptism is not a work man contrived but is from God, being water baptized is obeying God's righteousness. Works of righteousness are good deeds. I am dumbfounded at to how you can get Gods mercy to equal we must be obedient.. You give mercy to people who are unworthy. Unable to help themselves. The tax collector went home justified because he cried out for Gods mercy unable to ven look up (he was broken) not because he did works of righteousness (obedient to Gods commands). (The pharisee is the one who thought he was righteous because he obeyed God) As for washing of regeneration equaling water baptism.. How does OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit is the one who did the work) equal of your pastor immersing you in water? |
|
|
|
Post by gomer on Aug 24, 2022 5:33:07 GMT -8
1) Acts 10:35 one must work God's righteousness to be accepted with God....(Rom 6:16) "obedience unto righteousness" 2) " works of righteousness we have done" does not refer to obedience to God's will (see #1 above) but refers to works man has devised himself as a means to justification. Rom 10:3 those Jews were lost for they went about trying to establish their OWN righteousness that does not save instead of obeying GOD'S righteousness (as water baptism) that does save. 3) note in Tts 3:5 how those works of righteousness man devices are contrasted from "washing of regeneration" which refers to water baptism. Hence water baptism is not a work man contrived but is from God, being water baptized is obeying God's righteousness. Works of righteousness are good deeds. I am dumbfounded at to how you can get Gods mercy to equal we must be obedient.. You give mercy to people who are unworthy. Unable to help themselves. The tax collector went home justified because he cried out for Gods mercy unable to ven look up (he was broken) not because he did works of righteousness (obedient to Gods commands). (The pharisee is the one who thought he was righteous because he obeyed God) As for washing of regeneration equaling water baptism.. How does OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit is the one who did the work) equal of your pastor immersing you in water? Tts 3:5 refers to man trying to achieve justification by doing his OWN devised righteousness versus doing God's righteousness. This contrast is clearly seen in Rom 10:3 ...those Jew went about to establish their OWN righteousness instead of obeying GOD'S righteousness. Some do not want to see this distinction. The publican is not an example of NT gospel salvation for the gospel was not yet in effect (Heb 9:16-17) so he knew nothing about Christ or His gospel and there were no Christians yet, therefore his salvation would be according to the OT which he lived under. Both men being Jews going to the temple to pray were already children of God by natural birth. Under the OT law, physical birth into a family with ties back to Abraham put one in a covenant relationship with God. Whereas the NT requires a spiritual rebirth. Hence they are not even examples for us today as to how one gets into a NT covenant relationship with God by being born again. We today can learn from the publican's example humbleness, confession and repentance for Jesus here is giving a parable on humbleness not on how to be saved. The underlying Greek word for washing in Tts 3:5 is loutron which refers to a lever of water, like a baptismal font. " The word "washing" is from the Greek word loutron, which refers to (according to Thayer's Lexicon) the act of bathing and is used here in the New Testament and in other writings to refer to baptism. The word "regeneration" is from the Greek word palingenesia, which is taken from two root words "born" and "again." www.bebaptized.org/Titus3.htm#:~:text=Titus%203%3A5%20Not%20by%20works%20of%20righteousness%20which,is%20God%20who%20does%20the%20work%20in%20baptism. "washing of regeneration".....a bathing whereby one is born again. Lastly, baptism is not a work man does. When one is water baptized he passively submits himself to God (verb 'baptized' in Acts 2:38 is passive voice) where God is the One doing the work in removing the body of sin. So again, baptism is not a work of righteousness man does for God is the one doing the work in water baptism, not man. Note again how works of righteousness we have done (man's own devised plans) is contrasted from washing of regeneration, loutron, an act of bathing, water baptism (God's plan). |
|
|
|
Post by Obadiah on Aug 24, 2022 6:13:00 GMT -8
johann Said: Was the repentant thief on the cross saved? 1) "And he said unto Jesus, Lord," (kai legen lesou) "And he said, Jesus," Savior or Deliverer, liberator, who sets men free from sin and death, Luk_4:18; Heb_2:14; Joh_8:32; Joh_8:36. He may have been encouraged by hearing Jesus pray for His murderers. 2) "Remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." (mnestheti mou horan elthes eis ten basilelan sou) "Remember me when you come into your kingdom," to intercede for sin, Heb_7:25; 1Jn_2:1-2. It was a cry for mercy, much as the publican prayed, Luk_18:13; Psa_106:4-5; Psa_145:18-19; Rom_10:9-10; 1Co_6:10-11.
That's the most common reply I always hear to the topic of "You must be water baptized" in order to be saved" Then the next statement is the thief on the cross was water baptized and his own perspiration. But of course, I always like to dig deeper than that. So I found this: The thief on the cross was taken to Paradise under the old dispensation, he did not need to be baptized, his situation was like OT saints who had died; the church had not even come into existence yet. Peter on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38 told prospective members of the church: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call." And this: Remember Jesus' own baptism? Mat.3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Baptism makes us sons also! Gal. 3:26-27 For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. 27 For as many [of you] as were baptized into Christ [into a spiritual union and communion with Christ, the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on (clothed yourselves with) Christ.
|
|
|
|
Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 7:33:54 GMT -8
Works of righteousness are good deeds. I am dumbfounded at to how you can get Gods mercy to equal we must be obedient.. You give mercy to people who are unworthy. Unable to help themselves. The tax collector went home justified because he cried out for Gods mercy unable to ven look up (he was broken) not because he did works of righteousness (obedient to Gods commands). (The pharisee is the one who thought he was righteous because he obeyed God) As for washing of regeneration equaling water baptism.. How does OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit is the one who did the work) equal of your pastor immersing you in water? Tts 3:5 refers to man trying to achieve justification by doing his OWN devised righteousness versus doing God's righteousness. where do you get this from? Please show me in titus chapter 1 where paul is arguing about self righteousness.. Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
SHow me where you see self righteous works in context? |
|
