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Post by Obadiah on May 17, 2023 6:51:07 GMT -8
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him.
—Ephesians 1:4
God wrote before we did anything. He filled out the book of life in anticipation of what He knew we would do. Therefore, He did not write in response to what we actually did; rather, He wrote in response to what He knew we would actually do.
This distinction is very important. For if God put names in the book as history unfolded—as we actually believed —it could be argued that He erases them as history unfolds as well.
But if God entered names according to His foreknowledge, it follows that He would erase them according to His foreknowledge, which makes no sense at all. If God wrote and erased according to foreknowledge, both His writing and His erasing would be complete before the world began. In that case, no one needs to live with the fear that his or her name will be erased from the book of life sometime in the future. But if that is the case, Revelation 3:5 is no longer a problem.
He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life.
—Revelation 3:5
Think About It
Does it make any sense to say that salvation is offered as a solution for our sin and then to turn around and teach that salvation can be taken away because of our sin as well?
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Post by makesends on May 17, 2023 19:52:10 GMT -8
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. —Ephesians 1:4God wrote before we did anything. He filled out the book of life in anticipation of what He knew we would do. Therefore, He did not write in response to what we actually did; rather, He wrote in response to what He knew we would actually do. This distinction is very important. For if God put names in the book as his tory unfolded—as we actually believed —it could be argued that He erases them as history unfolds as well. But if God entered names according to His foreknowledge, it follows that He would erase them according to His foreknowledge, which makes no sense at all. If God wrote and erased according to foreknowledge, both His writing and His erasing would be complete before the world began. In that case, no one needs to live with the fear that his or her name will be erased from the book of life sometime in the future. But if that is the case, Revelation 3:5 is no longer a problem. He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life. —Revelation 3:5Think About It Does it make any sense to say that salvation is offered as a solution for our sin and then to turn around and teach that salvation can be taken away because of our sin as well? Nicely put. What kind of God would plan and destroy his own plan? |
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Post by Obadiah on May 29, 2023 10:47:08 GMT -8
Scripture teaches that believers must persevere until the end, but also that believers will persevere until the end by God’s grace. Christians might temporarily yield to Satan’s temptations, even to excess, but like Peter when he denied Christ three times, God will still restore and preserve the faith of the Christian, a faith which God gave in the first place! Peter went on to be chief among the apostles!
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Post by Bronson on May 31, 2023 10:55:52 GMT -8
You can rest in My promise of eternal life, for I cannot lie.
Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life, which God, who can’t lie,
promised before time began;
Paul starts his letter to Titus off with the following two verses quoted from the English Standard Version Bible... 1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.
Paul wrote this message to Titus two thousand years ago and two thousand years later it is still as relevant as it was when he first penned the words... We can all hope in the promise of eternal life that God promised before the world began because God cannot lie. We can rest in this rock solid truth whether our emotions agree with it or not because the promise is based on God's faithfulness, not ours!
I don't know about you, but for me, it is encouraging to know that my eternal destiny is secure not because of my own self-effort, but because I have a Father who is unwavering in His commitment to keep His promises. Take a deep breath and relax. You are loved beyond imagination and the One who created you has prepared an eternal place for you to live forever in His presence. May hope rise up in all our hearts today as we reflect on this amazing promise.
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Post by michaiah on May 31, 2023 11:08:03 GMT -8
BronsonThe only thing guaranteed to the believer is that his past sins have been taken away forever. Afterwards you must exert self effort to accomplish the following: “…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23) Because: “…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)
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Post by Bronson on May 31, 2023 11:33:54 GMT -8
Bronson The only thing guaranteed to the believer is that his past sins have been taken away forever. Afterwards you must exert self effort to accomplish the following: “…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23) Because: “…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) God does not merely command us to begin to believe for a time, and then fall away. He requires us to continue to believe until the end, living lives of repentance and covenant faithfulness. Granted, He does not ask for a perfect faith, but He does ask for a real faith, one that produces real, lasting change. Colossians 1:21–23 / 1 John 1:5–10; 3:3–6 / Hebrews 10:26–31 / Hebrews 12:1 But wait there's more... We will persevere because God preserves us. God will keep us from falling—not one will be lost of all those who belong to the Son. True believers are not able to leave Christ, for Christ is at work within them. John 6:38–40 / John 10:28–29 / Romans 8:28–39 / Philippians 1:4–6 / Philippians 2:12–13 / 1 John 2:19 If faith is simply a human action of a free will, then it can be lost. But if saving faith is God’s gift, then it cannot be lost. Can professing Christians fall away? Yes, and they will perish. Can true Christians fall away? No, for they are kept by the invincible power of God in Christ. The Bible teaches us that professing Christians who leave the faith were never truly believers 1 John 2:19 and notice the qualification even in Hebrews 10:39. |
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Post by michaiah on May 31, 2023 11:49:21 GMT -8
BronsonYikes. You should heed the warning in this scripture: “…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21) “Professing” Christians do not stand by faith, only real Christians. God cannot be fooled or mocked.
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Post by Bronson on May 31, 2023 12:18:07 GMT -8
Bronson Yikes. You should heed the warning in this scripture: “…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21) “Professing” Christians do not stand by faith, only real Christians. God cannot be fooled or mocked. “The ‘believer’ who loses his faith never really had it—or at least it wasn’t in Jesus.” With the above statement in mind can a true believer, one who has been born again and justified by faith alone in Christ alone, fully and finally fall away so as to forfeit his salvation? This question has provoked endless debate in the body of Christ. Those who answer Yes and those who answer No are convinced they have the weight of biblical evidence on their side. Each position has its favorite proof texts. But each position also has its problem passages. I don't believe it's necessary to usher in evil forebodings into the conversation. If you're saved and think that somehow someway you can become unsaved then you don't know how saved you really are. That's why it's called eternal life. Jesus came to give us eternal life if we believe in him. Eternal life doesn't end. If it did we would have to rename it. Half-life, 3/4 life, One quarter life. luckily such isn't the case. We've been given eternal life. |
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Post by Redeemed on May 31, 2023 12:23:48 GMT -8
Bronson Then there is the Parable of the Prodigal Son and it’s meaning. It’s a story of reconciliation and restoration—the heart of the good news. The main message of The Prodigal Son is that it doesn’t matter how far we stray from our Heavenly Father or how much we squander the gifts he provides (Salvation), he is always delighted when we turn back to him. His unconditional love is waiting for us to return home where he greets us with open arms. Every lost child (a sinner, meaning all of us) who is found (turns to God) is cause for the greatest celebration. Reading from a historical context, we understand that the father’s response to his son’s remorse is also extraordinary. Jewish culture of the day would call for the son must earn his way back after shaming the family. Instead, the father offers him unconditional forgiveness. So bottom line is if you’re the prodigal son, which we all are at some point due to our sin, be grateful for the unconditional love and forgiveness that will greet you when you come back home. Make a concerted effort to curb further disobedience or disrespect.
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Post by michaiah on May 31, 2023 12:37:29 GMT -8
BronsonCan’t you grasp how outrageous this reasoning is Bronson ? If you lose a thing you were never in possession of that thing? With that reasoning in mind world affairs would be in chaos. To say the least in man to man affairs… Can you imagine? “I lost my car keys” Response: “You never had the car keys in the right faith” LOL!
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Post by Aeliana on May 31, 2023 12:39:53 GMT -8
Here is what the Bible says about how God is able to keep us from stumbling:
Now to Him Who is able to strengthen you in the faith which is in accordance with my Gospel and the preaching of (concerning) Jesus Christ (the Messiah), according to the revelation (the unveiling) of the mystery of the plan of redemption which was kept in silence and secret for long ages, Rom. 16:25
Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams] Eph. 3:20
Left to ourselves, we would stumble so as to fall finally and forever. But the issue at stake isn’t whether you and I are able to persevere but whether God s able to preserve and keep us. Here we see that whereas we might be inclined to choose a sinful course of action that would ultimately lead to our stumbling, God is able to intervene and override our rebellious determination and to cause us to stand blameless before him with great joy.
But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot. 1 Peter 1:19
It is because God is able to do this that he is worthy of “glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time, now and forever.” Our security is not dependent on our ability, but on God’s. Our security is not dependent on feeling secure or saved. Security is an objective fact, not a subjective feeling.
Note finally the connection between Jude 24 and 25. How do we know God is able? We know because he is the God of glory, majesty, dominion and authority. If God can’t keep his own he is hardly worthy of that description and His Plan of Salvation is weak. If God can’t preserve his people he is to be pitied, not praised.
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Post by Aeliana on May 31, 2023 12:55:38 GMT -8
The doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints asserts that God will preserve in saving faith those who he has justified. He is committed to preserving and protecting and sustaining His people in faith and vital union with Jesus Christ.
So, why do people doubt or deny the doctrine of eternal security? There are several reasons:
Tradition: “That’s what I was raised to believe."
Biblical passages such as Hebrews 6 and 10 that appear to assert explicitly that Christians can forfeit their salvation or fall from grace exercise a considerable influence on many people. I hope you will take the time to carefully read my exposition of them.
They fear that if people are told they can’t lose their salvation, they will take advantage of this to indulge in gross immorality. They fear it will lead people to think: “If I can’t lose my salvation, I’ll do whatever I please. Romans. 6:1 In other words, the legitimate concern for holiness leads some to an illegitimate rejection of security.
They have known people who they are convinced are Christians, who later fall away. Believing them to have truly been born again, the only explanation is that they have lost their salvation.
Certain religious leaders need people to be insecure in their salvation in order to retain control over them. Fear is a powerful means whereby to keep people under one’s religious thumb.
Many believe that eternal security diminishes a person’s moral responsibility. It places too much emphasis on God’s sovereignty and not enough on human free will.
The exhortations in Scripture to be holy, to persevere, to endure, make sense only if the possibility exists that one may choose not to do so.
Finally, many fear that if perseverance or security is embraced, people will lose their motivation to pray and pursue holiness and avoid moral compromise. Note well: even if that were true, it isn’t a sufficient reason to reject the doctrine of perseverance. We must affirm or deny perseverance based on what Scripture says, not on what we fear may or may not be the practical consequences of a doctrine. I personally don’t believe that someone who truly understands the doctrine of perseverance will exploit it in this way. But even if they do, the question remains: What saith the Scriptures?
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Post by Bronson on Jun 1, 2023 9:30:40 GMT -8
I think we agree for the most part that we are saved by faith. However, those who believe salvation can be lost often ask an insightful question about the relationship between salvation and faith.
That question can be phrased, If our salvation is gained through believing in Christ, doesn’t it make sense that salvation would be lost if we quit believing?
Or to put it another way, If Christians lose faith to the point that they no longer recognize Christ’s death on the cross as the payment for sin, doesn’t it follow that they would lose their salvation as well?
Or to put it in a scriptural context, John 6:47 says, “He who believes has eternal life.” Does it not follow then that he who does not believe does not have eternal life?
Along the same lines, some have argued that the term believe, when referring to salvation, is always used in the present tense, as is the case in John 6:47.
The implication is that a believer is one who is always believing. Therefore, to stop believing is to disqualify oneself from the family of believers.
As convincing as these arguments may sound, they are shot through with problems. The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand.
12 “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he will rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that didn’t wander away! 14 In the same way, it is not my heavenly Father’s will that even one of these little ones should perish. Matthew 18:12-14
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Post by civic on Jun 2, 2023 4:49:44 GMT -8
Bronson The only thing guaranteed to the believer is that his past sins have been taken away forever. Afterwards you must exert self effort to accomplish the following: “…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23) Because: “…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) Are all of those warning passages in Hebrews written to and for believers ? They make no sense if they are for unbelievers right ? |
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Post by michaiah on Jun 2, 2023 8:41:58 GMT -8
Bronson The only thing guaranteed to the believer is that his past sins have been taken away forever. Afterwards you must exert self effort to accomplish the following: “…continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23) Because: “…it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) Are all of those warning passages in Hebrews written to and for believers ? They make no sense if they are for unbelievers right ? Those warnings are most definitely to believers. No doubt. |
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