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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 9:51:43 GMT -8
Calvinist believe there is a purpose for satan. This is logical…..why? John in the opening of his gospel apparently used the greek word logos to describe Christ. That word associated with Christ conveys Him to be the rational, logical reason for all things. Yes? Yes. Otherwise, he's just the gibberish of God (and God doesn't gibber).
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alive
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Post by alive on Dec 4, 2022 10:06:53 GMT -8
Calvinist believe there is a purpose for satan. This is logical…..why? John in the opening of his gospel apparently used the greek word logos to describe Christ. That word associated with Christ conveys Him to be the rational, logical reason for all things. Yes? Yes. Otherwise, he's just the gibberish of God (and God doesn't gibber). This a wonderful thing that relates to us, something of His Being and informs much of why He does what He does. We may not fully grasp all implications of His Choices, but we can relate to their basis in logic and logic that is rational. I believe Calvin labored much under that understanding. But I digress…..some.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 11:53:58 GMT -8
Yes. Otherwise, he's just the gibberish of God (and God doesn't gibber). This a wonderful thing that relates to us, something of His Being and informs much of why He does what He does. We may not fully grasp all implications of His Choices, but we can relate to their basis in logic and logic that is rational. I believe Calvin labored much under that understanding. But I digress…..some. I would venture to say this matter of satan is an area where our knowledge and understanding of satan has grown and improved over the centuries. Satan was once imagined as a boogeyman to be feared and used to divide Christians, sometime to the death of many. It's always been ironic in light of the scripture telling us sin enslaves.
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alive
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Post by alive on Dec 4, 2022 12:07:30 GMT -8
This a wonderful thing that relates to us, something of His Being and informs much of why He does what He does. We may not fully grasp all implications of His Choices, but we can relate to their basis in logic and logic that is rational. I believe Calvin labored much under that understanding. But I digress…..some. I would venture to say this matter of satan is an area where our knowledge and understanding of satan has grown and improved over the centuries. Satan was once imagined as a boogeyman to be feared and used to divide Christians, sometime to the death of many. It's always been ironic in light of the scripture telling us sin enslaves. Yes and we are told we need only resist and he will flee. Was discussing this on another forum, where the enemy of late has been glorified way too much. It is a grievous thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 16:17:40 GMT -8
I would venture to say this matter of satan is an area where our knowledge and understanding of satan has grown and improved over the centuries. Satan was once imagined as a boogeyman to be feared and used to divide Christians, sometime to the death of many. It's always been ironic in light of the scripture telling us sin enslaves. ....the enemy of late has been glorified way too much. It is a grievous thing. I completely agree. I did a little research when this op was first posted, and I didn't find any formal doctrinal statements specific to satan in any of the main denominations (and that included a brief survey of theology databases like Sage). I found plenty of article, most of which noted satan's limits but not one spoke about his enslavement to sin or his being used by God for God's purposes. I found only a few that even spoke of God's sovereignty. Additionally, many spoke of satan as a personification of evil and ignored our own part in the origin of evil. Most included content about the Christian's right walk and use of God's armor, but on the whole I found them all lacking in some way. Some places, like the Heidelburg Catechism, state sinners have become satan's property! I can't find that anywhere in the Bible. The Scot's Catechism does a better job, imo, by stipulating the sinner's siding with satan in Adam's disobedience. Oddly enough, I also found some sources citing a history in Christianity of a three-way battle for salvation with God, satan, and the sinful human cited as separate agents with varying degrees of equality and agency! Some of that was found within the Calvinist/Scot/Dutch Reformed tradition!!! Very grievous and concerning. I am somewhat pleased with something I found in Berkouwer's " Dogmatics..." on sin: " Being ‘'of the devil’' does not mean that one is bound by the categories of sheer fate; rather, the word of should be seen as a wholesale indictment of [human] guilt. No satanic force majeure is apparent here in opposition to the good gift of God’s sonship: for only in and through one’s guilt does the power of the evil one take hold. A demonological explanation of sin’s origin is therefore impossible." Everything formal I found was couched in our doctrines of sin (Hamartiology) and not any formal statement on satan's ontology. I read a Wm. Caldwell article on satan in the OT in which he described the episode with " In other words, we have on the one side God's love and grace shown in the restoration and the danger of complaisance in filthy or mean garments, on the other side the severe, trying, testing providence of God." He suggests God's love and grace are represented in Joshua and Job (or they priest) and satan is thusly defeated through God's Providence but I find that problematic and what I posted about satan playing a role assigned to him by God much more consistent with the whole of scripture. Wesley, in opposition to Calvinist soteriology, infamously said, "You God is my devil" or so it is attributed to him), which makes this op a curious thing (but I didn't want to unnecessarily set up the common and inane debate over salvation in this op since it asks specifically about a doctrine of satan. I also found an article through the Methodist Church correctly asserting evil is not limited to the person or personhood of satan, thereby suggesting evil is much bigger than the mere creature assigned that pole. Back on the Reformed end of things Luther apparently wrote prodigiously on the doctrine of satan but didn't settle on a specific position. He held satan an originator of evil (along with God and humanity). The only sources I found specifically and explicitly speaking about God's sovereignty over satan, God's good and authoritative hand in satan's works, the limiting effect of God's will on satan, and God's consenting power were all Lutheran. However, the Missouri Synod's Christian Cyclopedia was just as lacking in substance as everything else I checked. However, despite all I just posted my review was cursory and this post should not be taken as a true representation of the whole of Christian work on the topic; just a quick survey I did when the op was first posted. Since I couldn't find any Calvinist formal doctrinal statement, I offered my view as a monergist firmly couched in the whole of scripture (and someone adhering to the Reformed and Calvinist tradition).
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Post by civic on Jan 24, 2023 4:45:58 GMT -8
Could not both Blanchard and MacArthur have in mind compatibility, thus allowing Satan to freely choose the only option available? Yes I think that is their position. I was a student of Mac for many decades and still have all of his books in my library.
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