slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 13, 2022 14:54:57 GMT -8
Nope ..... Nothing is rational about you guys continually re-filing no one can be from a gospel that happened circa 2000 years ago. Because of Paul's supposid writtings. Now then, please expalin to me how that is sensical. No one can have a reasonable and rational conversation with someone who posts incomplete sentences or attacks other personally. No one is " continually re-filing no one can be from a gospel that happened 2000 years ago." It simply has not happened and if that is what was construed then go back and read and reread the posts and reread them as many times as it takes for them to be CORRECTLY understand. The post to which I now reply is a strawman. Fix your own posts if you want actual content explained to you. Just because you have thology does not make me your god. |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 13, 2022 17:05:21 GMT -8
Paul was consistent .... every one is dead. No one to ever be again ...... Being is dead ...... Not being won the day. Kind of wierd theology. Paul was consistent. Those once dead in sin but now dead in Christ are alive in Christ and dead to sin and we will die. Those dead in sin and not dead and alive in Christ are not dead to sin and they too will die again only to die again after that. In the end death gets dead. I don't know what " being is dead" means because " dead is being" is not true so those words can't be construed as an equivalency. Neither am I sure what is meant by " Not being won the day," but I think that is incorrect because if that's a reference to Christ then it was the epitome of being that won the day, not its absence. Not sure what's " weird," either. Bible makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand everything, but what I do understand is sensical, never irrational. Paul was big wind bag ...... no one can be. |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 13, 2022 20:11:26 GMT -8
Better yet, since this op is not specifically about Israel or Paul, can we get back on topic and stick to answering the specific singular question asked in this op? Is God the author of evil? In answer to that question, I say, " No," adding the only reason people take a proof-texted version of verses like Isaiah 45:7 to mean God does create evil is because the post-disobedience context of Genesis 3:6 is forgotten, neglected, or ignored and when that change is remembered we properly understand Isaiah 45:7 in its scripturally declared context: in an already sin adulterated world God can and does create evil and He can do that because He is sovereign over all things, even the existence of evil. I agree wholeheartedly with you there except with one caveat: I still don't say God CREATED evil. But that he caused it. There, to me, is a difference. For one thing, and though it may feel cheesy to say it, evil is not a "thing", as such. But I will admit that short of demonstrating that it is a kind of parasite on 'good', or as theologians and philosophers put it, a "privation" of good, (either way, dependent on 'good' for its definition), I have no satisfying way to explain it to those who insist on libertarian free will. Seems like something like that. In the spiritual upside down world ...... evil is a monster; to kill good for not being. Evil wants to see us and accuse us with evil is better then being. When we cannot live for "evil" they win their no one can be thingy. They are incessant beings that we cannot be. Evil is just that evil. When and or if we lose they will continue to kill themsleves. No one to be ....... ever again ...... no life. Just incessant killing; the born cannot ever be for evil. Evil really is evil ..... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2022 7:09:07 GMT -8
Is English your native language? Do you have any impairments about which your fellow posters should know? Are you posting from a cell phone or tablet? Are you in a hurry? These are commonly occurring conditions that commonly lead to things like incomplete sentences, bad syntax, spelling errors, etc. I am NOT insensitive to these conditions but neither do I have much tolerance for those getting defensive over their end of things. Just let me know what's going on because if there is no reason for the incomplete sentences, the incomplete thoughts, the misspellings, the broken syntax, etc., then that's all on you. You let me know - you let us, your fellow BAM members know, and we'll make the needed adjustments. Otherwise, those last three posts are just messed up and not worth anyone's time. This exchange is a tangent. It began with my commentary about the importance of context and your response, No one knows why any of that was posted. No one knows because it has not been explained. Two sentences of my post were emphasized, quoted with a hugely increased font, italicization, and bold face. No one knows why those two sentences were selected and no one knows why they were emphasized, and no one knows why they were quote mined and no one knows how the response is related because you did not provide any explanation, and no one is even remotely suggesting Paul was inconsistent. No one is suggesting all are not dead. No one knows what the incomplete sentence "N o one to ever be again..." means. The three words, " Being is dead..." is self-contradictory, no one has said anything about "being" and you're not explaining yourself. No one knows what you mean by " Not being won the day," because it can mean many things and if it means many things and the interpretation is left up to the reader then it means nothing. Since you and e v e are the only two posters even mentioning the word " theology" no one knows what you mean by " Kind of wierd theology." No one knows why there are so many spelling errors in your posts or why more care isn't taken to correct them given the forums auto-correct feature. So, either help me and everyone else understand why this mess happened so we can accommodate it or fix it on your own. God is not the author of evil. Understanding the post-disobedient context of scripture after Genesis 3:6 is critical to understanding the seeming conflicts between God's good works and God's evil works. Selective proof-texting of individual verses is bad practice. Paul is consistent, and he is consistent both with himself and with the whole of scripture. And nothing I posted should be construed to say otherwise. I hope there is no dispute between us on any of those things and if there is then it is incumbent upon you to explain how that is the case. Me too.  First off .... that was alot of insults. No, it wasn't. It was a polite and respectful invitation to explain your posts. One that was commended by at least one other poster who may also want to know the answers to these questions. LOL!!! ROTFLMBO!!! Now that is insulting!!! Insinuating those anyone who " went to seminary, or Bible college" has the problem because they went to seminary is an insult to all the seminarians and those who made conscious, deliberate choices to study the Bible academically when they could have gone to some other area of academic study is insulting. All the more so if they were called by God to do so. I'm confident the seminarian Paul would gladly expound on the error of that belief. It's also a violation of forum rule 1b, 1c, and 1d. And your guess is wrong. I've never been to seminary or Bible college. No, the starting point would be for you to clarify your posts on-topically, explaining how they specifically answer and address the inquiry of this op: Is God the Author of Evil? because otherwise the posts are off-topic. Me, too. I await your better response. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2022 7:19:56 GMT -8
I agree wholeheartedly with you there except with one caveat: I still don't say God CREATED evil. But that he caused it. There, to me, is a difference. For one thing, and though it may feel cheesy to say it, evil is not a "thing", as such. But I will admit that short of demonstrating that it is a kind of parasite on 'good', or as theologians and philosophers put it, a "privation" of good, (either way, dependent on 'good' for its definition), I have no satisfying way to explain it to those who insist on libertarian free will. Seems like something like that. In the spiritual upside down world ...... evil is a monster; to kill good for not being. Evil wants to see us and accuse us with evil is better then being. When we cannot live for "evil" they win their no one can be thingy. They are incessant beings that we cannot be. Evil is just that evil. When and or if we lose they will continue to kill themsleves. No one to be ....... ever again ...... no life. Just incessant killing; the born cannot ever be for evil. Evil really is evil ..... None of which answers the question of this op. |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 14, 2022 15:56:38 GMT -8
First off .... that was alot of insults. No, it wasn't. It was a polite and respectful invitation to explain your posts. One that was commended by at least one other poster who may also want to know the answers to these questions. LOL!!! ROTFLMBO!!! Now that is insulting!!! Insinuating those anyone who " went to seminary, or Bible college" has the problem because they went to seminary is an insult to all the seminarians and those who made conscious, deliberate choices to study the Bible academically when they could have gone to some other area of academic study is insulting. All the more so if they were called by God to do so. I'm confident the seminarian Paul would gladly expound on the error of that belief. It's also a violation of forum rule 1b, 1c, and 1d. And your guess is wrong. I've never been to seminary or Bible college. No, the starting point would be for you to clarify your posts on-topically, explaining how they specifically answer and address the inquiry of this op: Is God the Author of Evil? because otherwise the posts are off-topic. Me, too. I await your better response. You already got it ...... Man not being is just a tad problematic. Ever play chess with a blind fold on in the dark. |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 14, 2022 16:43:40 GMT -8
Seems like something like that. In the spiritual upside down world ...... evil is a monster; to kill good for not being. Evil wants to see us and accuse us with evil is better then being. When we cannot live for "evil" they win their no one can be thingy. They are incessant beings that we cannot be. Evil is just that evil. When and or if we lose they will continue to kill themsleves. No one to be ....... ever again ...... no life. Just incessant killing; the born cannot ever be for evil. Evil really is evil ..... None of which answers the question of this op. If we cannot be we cannot be. |
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Post by makesends on Nov 14, 2022 17:23:59 GMT -8
No, it wasn't. It was a polite and respectful invitation to explain your posts. One that was commended by at least one other poster who may also want to know the answers to these questions. LOL!!! ROTFLMBO!!! Now that is insulting!!! Insinuating those anyone who " went to seminary, or Bible college" has the problem because they went to seminary is an insult to all the seminarians and those who made conscious, deliberate choices to study the Bible academically when they could have gone to some other area of academic study is insulting. All the more so if they were called by God to do so. I'm confident the seminarian Paul would gladly expound on the error of that belief. It's also a violation of forum rule 1b, 1c, and 1d. And your guess is wrong. I've never been to seminary or Bible college. No, the starting point would be for you to clarify your posts on-topically, explaining how they specifically answer and address the inquiry of this op: Is God the Author of Evil? because otherwise the posts are off-topic. Me, too. I await your better response. You already got it ...... Man not being is just a tad problematic. Ever play chess with a blind fold on in the dark. You aren't my wife; I'm not responsible to figure out your riddles. I don't like to guess. Can you at least try to come right out and say what you are trying to get across? Or is there some reason you think you are clever enough that those who can't figure out what you mean don't deserve to know? What are you doing, man? "Man not being is just a tad problematic." —Man not being what? Not existing? —What are you referring to by "man"? Mankind? I don't like you enough to bother to guess. If you want to be taken seriously, then speak plainly. |
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Post by makesends on Nov 14, 2022 17:29:22 GMT -8
No one can have a reasonable and rational conversation with someone who posts incomplete sentences or attacks other personally. No one is " continually re-filing no one can be from a gospel that happened 2000 years ago." It simply has not happened and if that is what was construed then go back and read and reread the posts and reread them as many times as it takes for them to be CORRECTLY understand. The post to which I now reply is a strawman. Fix your own posts if you want actual content explained to you. Just because you have thology does not make me your god. Huh??? |
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slyzr
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Posts: 124
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Post by slyzr on Nov 14, 2022 18:39:38 GMT -8
You already got it ...... Man not being is just a tad problematic. Ever play chess with a blind fold on in the dark. You aren't my wife; I'm not responsible to figure out your riddles. I don't like to guess. Can you at least try to come right out and say what you are trying to get across? Or is there some reason you think you are clever enough that those who can't figure out what you mean don't deserve to know? What are you doing, man? "Man not being is just a tad problematic." —Man not being what? Not existing? —What are you referring to by "man"? Mankind? I don't like you enough to bother to guess. If you want to be taken seriously, then speak plainly. Seemed simple enough to me. Are you part of the man cannot be club? |
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slyzr
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Post by slyzr on Nov 14, 2022 19:03:24 GMT -8
the reason scripture even exists... is to get His Creation back.. and us
His sons and daughters...back...
so... no idol there , for eden IS our promise
and His gorgeous reality
the idols are :
this earth and this body...
The typical response is where are we going. And don't say eden. |
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Post by Unmerited on Apr 7, 2023 15:37:44 GMT -8
Obadiah The OP asked a simple question: Why is there so much evil? And to me, the answer is also simple. It’s because creation and everything in it is broken. Right, we live in a fallen creation, and this brokenness is evident in three realms. The first is, there’s brokenness in the human realm. Right? I mean, the only morally culpable physical beings, humans, are born with a sin nature and capable of an enormous amount of evil. That’s why in Romans 5:12 it talks about how every person sins, which of course contributes to all the evil in the world. The second is there’s brokenness in the physical realm, that is, in creation itself. And because of the fall of man, creation was effected, and that’s why in Romans 8 Paul talks about how creation was subjected to futility and will eventually be set free from its slavery to corruption. Creation’s fallenness can lead to hardship and suffering which of course, then many people interpret as contributing to evil. And finally, there’s brokenness in the spiritual realm, right? I mean you have these powerful angelic beings, demons, and of course Satan, who operate in the spiritual realm, and of course they’re set on destroying God’s plan. Scripture even says in 1 John 5 that the world is under the control of the evil one who, of course, is Satan. And although God is ultimately sovereign, with Satan currently in control, there’s gonna be a lot of evil. So again, why is there so much evil? Well, because all three realms have fallen elements to them. And of course, they collectively contribute to all the evil that we experience. Thankfully though, God has promised to destroy all evil one day and restore the heavens and the earth to their proper state. Alan Shlemon
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Post by Bronson on Apr 9, 2023 14:54:33 GMT -8
Obadiah The OP asked a simple question: Why is there so much evil? And to me, the answer is also simple. It’s because creation and everything in it is broken. Right, we live in a fallen creation, and this brokenness is evident in three realms. The first is, there’s brokenness in the human realm. Right? I mean, the only morally culpable physical beings, humans, are born with a sin nature and capable of an enormous amount of evil. That’s why in Romans 5:12 it talks about how every person sins, which of course contributes to all the evil in the world. The second is there’s brokenness in the physical realm, that is, in creation itself. And because of the fall of man, creation was effected, and that’s why in Romans 8 Paul talks about how creation was subjected to futility and will eventually be set free from its slavery to corruption. Creation’s fallenness can lead to hardship and suffering which of course, then many people interpret as contributing to evil. And finally, there’s brokenness in the spiritual realm, right? I mean you have these powerful angelic beings, demons, and of course Satan, who operate in the spiritual realm, and of course they’re set on destroying God’s plan. Scripture even says in 1 John 5 that the world is under the control of the evil one who, of course, is Satan. And although God is ultimately sovereign, with Satan currently in control, there’s gonna be a lot of evil. So again, why is there so much evil? Well, because all three realms have fallen elements to them. And of course, they collectively contribute to all the evil that we experience. Thankfully though, God has promised to destroy all evil one day and restore the heavens and the earth to their proper state. Alan Shlemon Good post Unmerited! God is definitely not the author of evil. Here's one of the better explanations I've read View HereEspecially like the following. God does not create moral evil. For one thing, moral evil is not a “thing” to be made but a choice or intent contrary to God’s good purposes, His holy character, and His law. Moral evil does not conform to God and His will. God is good (Psalm 34:8), holy (Leviticus 11:44; Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), and loving (1 John 4:8); therefore, His plans and purposes are good, holy, and loving. |
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Post by atpollard on Jul 6, 2023 16:40:51 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. The verse employs poetic couplets … pairs of words that are opposites: * light and darkness * prosperity and disaster The LITERARY intent is to present two extremes that imply “and everything in between”. We see it in a LOT of other places in the Bible … Alpha and Omega … does that mean that Jesus is only at the beginning and the end, but not all the letters in between, or does it mean that Jesus is at the beginning and the end and everywhere in between? First and Last … Heaven and Earth … So for Isaiah 45:7, the POINT that is being made is “God is in control of EVERYTHING”. Job and the dealing with Satan illustrate that God does not cause evil, but God certainly sets boundaries that determine what evil may occur. “THIS FAR AND NO FURTHER”. If one wanted to be pedantic, God is the RESTRAINER of Evil rather than its creator. Romans 1 (starting at verse 18) illustrates this: over and over “God turned them over to …” (God allowed men to follow ever more evil desires that originated within those men that rejected God.) An illustration that always appealed to me was Joseph and his enslavement. God did not make his brothers hate him. God did not create the generational strife that started with children from multiple wives and multiple servants. The brothers wanted to KILL Joseph, but God restrained their evil. God permitted them to sell him into slavery. God arranged for Joseph to be transported to Egypt (because that served God’s plan and set into motion events that led to the Passover … without which WE would not have the Last Supper and the whole “Body and Blood” sacrament). At the end, Joseph proclaims “what you meant for evil, God meant for good”. At the end, what God PERMITTED (good and evil) resulted in their good (it healed the family) and God’s glory (Passover, Slavery, Deliverance, Lamb, Blood, … how much do we understand because Joseph went to Egypt and God sent Moses to deliver them out of Egypt?) It seems a small point to some, but an important point to me: Darkness is not always synonymous with EVIL and the opposite of “prosperity” is not EVIL … so the verse never says that God creates EVIL. |
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Post by Unmerited on Jul 6, 2023 16:57:43 GMT -8
I form light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster, I am the LORD, who do all these things / Isaiah 45:7 That verse sure makes it sound like He is. I was wondering what some other posters here views on this may be. The verse employs poetic couplets … pairs of words that are opposites: * light and darkness * prosperity and disaster The LITERARY intent is to present two extremes that imply “and everything in between”. We see it in a LOT of other places in the Bible … Alpha and Omega … does that mean that Jesus is only at the beginning and the end, but not all the letters in between, or does it mean that Jesus is at the beginning and the end and everywhere in between? First and Last … Heaven and Earth … So for Isaiah 45:7, the POINT that is being made is “God is in control of EVERYTHING”. Job and the dealing with Satan illustrate that God does not cause evil, but God certainly sets boundaries that determine what evil may occur. “THIS FAR AND NO FURTHER”. If one wanted to be pedantic, God is the RESTRAINER of Evil rather than its creator. Romans 1 (starting at verse 18) illustrates this: over and over “God turned them over to …” (God allowed men to follow ever more evil desires that originated within those men that rejected God.) An illustration that always appealed to me was Joseph and his enslavement. God did not make his brothers hate him. God did not create the generational strife that started with children from multiple wives and multiple servants. The brothers wanted to KILL Joseph, but God restrained their evil. God permitted them to sell him into slavery. God arranged for Joseph to be transported to Egypt (because that served God’s plan and set into motion events that led to the Passover … without which WE would not have the Last Supper and the whole “Body and Blood” sacrament). At the end, Joseph proclaims “what you meant for evil, God meant for good”. At the end, what God PERMITTED (good and evil) resulted in their good (it healed the family) and God’s glory (Passover, Slavery, Deliverance, Lamb, Blood, … how much do we understand because Joseph went to Egypt and God sent Moses to deliver them out of Egypt?) It seems a small point to some, but an important point to me: Darkness is not always synonymous with EVIL and the opposite of “prosperity” is not EVIL … so the verse never says that God creates EVIL. Excellent post and some really good information. God creating evil just doesn't sound right to me. |
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