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Post by civic on Aug 9, 2022 4:46:58 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
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Post by resurrection33 on Aug 13, 2022 9:22:07 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
Jesus was perfect. There are two things I know for sure: God and Jesus are who they say they are, and the Bible doesn't lie. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 15:15:15 GMT -8
If God did not freely choose to be perfect, than that is one positive moral attribute he does not have.
Being forced to be perfect by virtue of something other than your will or choice is one less moral perfection you lack.
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nahum
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Post by nahum on Aug 14, 2022 17:32:13 GMT -8
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb 4:15) The last clause -- "yet without sin" -- is the key to understanding that Christ could not sin. That is because He did not have the sin nature of other humans beings. Which brings us back to the supernatural conception and the virgin birth of Christ. Since He was Emmanuel -- GOD WITH US -- since His conception, Christ could not sin.
Satan -- an evil creature -- does not know everything. He imagined that Christ could be tempted. But there was nothing within Jesus of Nazareth to respond to any temptation. Furthermore, in order to become the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world, He would need to be "without spot and without blemish". Therefore He could challenge His enemies and ask them as to which of them could accuse Him of sin.
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101G
New Member
The Binding Covenant
Posts: 49 
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Post by 101G on Aug 14, 2022 17:37:55 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
GOOD topic, but as mentioned throw in Heb 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin".
but here's an interesting twist. Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
so, the possibility of sin, or sinning then come down to "FAITH". and remember FAITH is BUILT or added to. makes one think/
PICJAG, 101G. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 2:19:24 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
Jesus, as human, was always in full communion with God as opposed to fallen man who is alienated from Him. That alienation is the essence of the state sometimes called “original sin”. Man didn’t gain something at the fall, as in a “sin nature”, rather he lost something, which hadn’t yet been appreciated and embraced yet in Eden, which is union with God. Man was made for communion with God and is lost, sick, dead, and existing in a state of disorder or injustice apart from Him. Man cannot retain moral, integrity, the natural impeccably he was made for, to the extent that he’s his own God, not existing in a state of loving subjugation to the true God, IOW. Righteousness, ultimately impeccability even if perfectly only in the next life, will begin to take root and blossom as soon as that union is restored. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 2:22:14 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
Jesus, as human, was always in full communion with God as opposed to fallen man who is alienated from Him. That alienation is the essence of the state sometimes called “original sin”. Man didn’t gain something at the fall, as in a “sin nature”, rather he lost something, which hadn’t yet been appreciated and embraced yet in Eden, which is union with God. Man was made for communion with God and is lost, sick, dead, and existing in a state of disorder or injustice apart from Him. Man cannot retain moral integrity, the natural impeccably he was made for, to the extent that he’s his own “god”, not existing in a state of loving subjugation, which produces obedience of its own accord, to the true God, IOW. Righteousness, ultimately impeccability, will begin to take root and blossom as soon as that union is restored, even if perfectly so only in the next life. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 9:44:52 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
Good op. I am one who subscribes to the impeccability of Christ, the position he could not have sinned. I think an important aspect of Christ's identify and purpose in coming to earth is left out: he was foreknown as the perfect sacrifice before the world was created. The entire force of God's purpose and the determinism of prophetic knowledge and utterance was fully born in Christ. If Christ was in any way imperfect, then God's supposed knowledge of Christ as the perfect sacrifice was incorrect. That, in turn, compromises God's omniscience. Any compromise on God's omniscience means God is not all-knowing and is not who He says He is. That is not a God. Period. That might be some kind of powerful being but that god is not a God and certainly is not the God of the Bible. Furthermore, if we are going to concede the possibility of any one sin we must concede to possibility of any and all sin. We may think it tenable Jesus might have given 9% instead of ten, or neglected to return borrowed sandals because he liked them more than his own, but the moment we go down that road we must give way to all sins known to humanity (because that is what scripture stipulates) and I doubt any Christian is willing to consider Jesus sodomizing pre-school aged boys, and then torturing them for days and weeks in preparation for his dining upon them. That part about "all temptations" includes those of Jeffrey Daumier, not just your neighbor who borrowed your lawnmower and didn't refill the gas tank. And if you're revulsed by what I said then you've just come up close and personal with a sliver of your own sinfulness. Just a sliver, though. Therefore, the belief Jesus could not have sinned or could possibly have sinned turns out to be quite important. Jesus was exposed to all kinds of temptation, he was "baited" in all the ways known to humanity but there was nothing within him by which he might be dragged away and enticed. He's not just the good and sinless Adam who was made corruptible and couldn't enter into the kingdom because of his corruptible flesh and blood. Jesus is the guy who is The King, who came from the kingdom not only good and sinless but incorruptible. He was (and remains) a life-giving Spirit, not a death-giving being. Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men (Rom. 5:12). Jesus is completely different, fully God and fully human. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 10:10:06 GMT -8
The possibility of sinning is not a sin.
It is not as if the mere potential of being able to sin, were itself somehow a sinful and impure thing.
The ability to choose to be perfect is the ultimate perfection—not being forced to be a certain way by things outside your choice, but being perfect because you instead chose to be.
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Post by hansen on Aug 21, 2022 10:57:25 GMT -8
The possibility of sinning is not a sin. It is not as if the mere potential of being able to sin, were itself somehow a sinful and impure thing. The ability to choose to be perfect is the ultimate perfection—not being forced to be a certain way by things outside your choice, but being perfect because you instead chose to be. Yes, they say that God cannot be tempted. But you can ask God to do something wrong right now. Good luck with that, however. We'd have just as much success as the devil did in the desert. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 5:18:14 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
GOOD topic, but as mentioned throw in Heb 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin".
but here's an interesting twist. Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
so, the possibility of sin, or sinning then come down to "FAITH". and remember FAITH is BUILT or added to. makes one think/
PICJAG, 101G. Is your high priest God? If your high priest Jesus is God who is he making the offering to? |
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Post by civic on Aug 23, 2022 5:23:25 GMT -8
Is your high priest God? If your high priest Jesus is God who is he making the offering to? Just as a heads up this section on the forum is not for debating against the Deity of Christ or the Trinity. We have a section for that discussion. Thanks ! Its called the " Debating and Controversial Topics " section. If you want to start a thread over there or tag me in a discussion over there I'm more than willing to have a discussion with you on that topic. hope this helps !!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 6:13:57 GMT -8
Could Jesus have sinned ?
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.
To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:
1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.
2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.
The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.
Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.
Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got questions
hope this helps !!!
Yes he could have, but he did not...There is nothing mystical about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 10:38:21 GMT -8
The possibility of sinning is not a sin. It is not as if the mere potential of being able to sin, were itself somehow a sinful and impure thing. The ability to choose to be perfect is the ultimate perfection—not being forced to be a certain way by things outside your choice, but being perfect because you instead chose to be. No, the possibility of sinning is not a sin, but it is a problem to be solved. Consider something Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15. He talks about how humans were "sown" corruptible and mortal. We might ordinarily think he is talking about the sinful condition and the grave but that would be a mistaken understanding of his words because the sinful person is not corrupt ible, s/he is corrupt ed. Paul did not say we are sown corrupt ed and mortal; he said corrupt ible and mortal. Where do we look in scripture to find the corrupt ible-but-not-yet-corrupt ed person? The ONLY place in all of human history that has ever occurred aside from Christ is Eden. Prior to Genesis 3:6 Adam and Eve were not corrupted, but they were corruptible. They were made that way. They were made corrupt ible. They were not made corrupt ed. At Genesis 3:6 they moved from being corrupt ible to being corrupt ed. This turns out to be an ontological and existential change. Continuing on in his exposition Paul tells us the in the resurrection we will be made incorruptible and immortal. On the other side of the grave neither the condition with which humanity was originally made by God, nor the condition that ensued due to disobedience, will exist. God will not only have addressed the problem of our being corrupt ed, He will also have addressed the matter of our being corrupt ible. The problem of corruption will be addressed in a preventive manner, not just in a post hoc manner. So we see there are four conditions of corruption: - Not corrupt
- Corruptible
- Corrupted
- Incorruptible
In the early days of creation Adam and Eve were both 1 and 2. Jesus is both 1 and 4. In the resurrection we will have been all four. So..... being corruptible is not in and of itself sin but it is a problem to be solved because God does not entertain the prospect of future sin in His kingdom. We will be incorruptible, all those who've denied Christ and remain corrupted will be tossed in the fiery second death where even death will be destroyed.
The only reason that happens is because that one single, singular individual who was fully God and fully human rent the fabric of time and space that separates the heavens from the earth and walked among us made flesh as a bondservant to change the entirety of creation. All creation waits for the sons of God to be revealed - the incorruptible and immortal sons (and daughters) of God. Jesus was the firstborn, the first incorruptible fruit of an incorruptible multitude to follow. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 10:50:09 GMT -8
No, the possibility of sinning is not a sin, but it is a problem to be solved. I still feel you are painting corruptibility as somehow a bad or negative thing. This would mean God did not make everything very good in the beginning, and that, in fact, the serpent would have been right when he insinuated God withheld some good thing from Adam and Eve. Setting aside that the argument that 1 Cor. 15 is talking about natural corruptibility (the body physically degenerating), we can still contest the point that the mere state of corruptibility is somehow something that needs "solving." Nowhere is it insinuated that it would have been an inferior or bad thing for Adam and Eve to obediently continue in their Edenic paradise—there was nothing inferior about their state, as if it were an unresolved chord or an unfinished symphony. They experienced unhindered intimacy with God's glory. The reason there will not be sin in heaven, is not because we will all be spiritually neutered and zombified, but because our previous choices will put us in a place where (1) our will is completely united and determined in our choice for good, and (2) there will be no corrupting influences. It will not be because we are forced to be that way by removing our free will. This is logical error—insisting that the only logical way of preventing sin is to remove free will is simply an incorrect deduction, it is a non sequitur. |
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