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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 16, 2022 13:30:31 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ.
Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned)
Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound.
Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line..
Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential.
There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved)
same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is
Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 .
Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks
anyway..
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 16, 2022 14:39:50 GMT -8
Discuss the word of God sounds like the best way to go to me. I total agree with your post.
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Post by Bruce Leiter on Aug 16, 2022 14:41:28 GMT -8
Essential truths are the full deity and humanity of Jesus, the Trinity, God's inspiration of the Bible, God's creation of the universe and humanity, and God's free gift of salvation.
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 16, 2022 14:47:59 GMT -8
Essential truths are the full deity and humanity of Jesus, the Trinity, God's inspiration of the Bible, God's creation of the universe and humanity, and God's free gift of salvation. Those all work also. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 16, 2022 16:09:06 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ. Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned) Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound. Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line.. Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential. There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved) same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 . Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks anyway.. i would add that a Belief in The Bodily Resurrection Of Jesus is Paramount... |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 17, 2022 1:50:30 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ. Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned) Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound. Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line.. Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential. There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved) same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 . Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks anyway.. i would add that a Belief in The Bodily Resurrection Of Jesus is Paramount... Amen, The ressurection is our hope. As he rose, so we shall also. Without the ressurection. We would have little hope. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 17, 2022 3:19:16 GMT -8
Amen, The ressurection is our hope. As he rose, so we shall also. Without the ressurection. We would have little hope. I like it... makes me think of: “...Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.” (Philippians 4:8) I'll go for something up lifting  any day. |
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backwoodsman
New Member
Not quite at the ends of the earth, but you can see it from here.
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Post by backwoodsman on Aug 17, 2022 9:22:29 GMT -8
Essential truths are the full deity and humanity of Jesus, the Trinity, God's inspiration of the Bible, God's creation of the universe and humanity, and God's free gift of salvation. Would you mind showing us where the Bible says believing each of those points is necessary for salvation? While I believe all of them are clearly taught in Scripture, I can't find anywhere the Bible says that about any but the last one. |
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Post by civic on Aug 17, 2022 9:25:20 GMT -8
Essential truths are the full deity and humanity of Jesus, the Trinity, God's inspiration of the Bible, God's creation of the universe and humanity, and God's free gift of salvation. Would you mind showing us where the Bible says believing each of those points is necessary for salvation? While I believe all of them are clearly taught in Scripture, I can't find anywhere the Bible says that about any but the last one. Welcome to our forum and thank you for joining . I hope you enjoy your time here . |
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Post by civic on Aug 17, 2022 16:02:10 GMT -8
Would you mind showing us where the Bible says believing each of those points is necessary for salvation? While I believe all of them are clearly taught in Scripture, I can't find anywhere the Bible says that about any but the last one.
Welcome from theos.org!
Excellent point.
The one they try to use for the Deity of Christ is "Unless you believe I am you will die in your sins."
One can make a solid case this is a reference to the Messiah—and that certainly the disciples were saved before they understood Jesus was God.
Jesus made so many claims to His Deity in the gospels and John 8:24 and 8:58 and just a couple of those claims the Jews tried stoning Him for “ being a mere man , making Himself out to be God “. The entire 5th chapter of John is filled with claims of His Deity . hope this helps !!! |
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Post by civic on Aug 17, 2022 16:41:43 GMT -8
He didn't ask for a verse that supports it, but that supports necessarily believing it to be saved. I'd like to see you prove the disciples (pre-Cross) knew Jesus was God, because they sure didn't act like it.  Yes there are allot of things they did not understand until after Pentecost. They didn't even believe He would rise from the dead until they saw Him physically . They were only understanding things in the flesh and Jesus always pulled them aside to explain all the parables to them. |
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Post by civic on Aug 17, 2022 16:49:04 GMT -8
But you would still say they were saved right? Because they trusted in Jesus as their Messiah, names written in his book? saved but not yet baptized/filled with the Holy Spirit, sealed by with H.S. and power until Pentecost. Sure they were saved by faith much like the OT saints were prior to Pentecost. |
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Post by TibiasDad on Aug 17, 2022 20:09:34 GMT -8
Essential truths are the full deity and humanity of Jesus, the Trinity, God's inspiration of the Bible, God's creation of the universe and humanity, and God's free gift of salvation. Would you mind showing us where the Bible says believing each of those points is necessary for salvation? While I believe all of them are clearly taught in Scripture, I can't find anywhere the Bible says that about any but the last one. Welcome to the forum! 1 John 4:13This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. 1 John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God… Doug |
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Post by hansen on Aug 18, 2022 9:18:13 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ. Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned) Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound. Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line.. Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential. There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved) same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 . Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks anyway.. I reject OSAS because I reject the doctrine of Sola Fide if, by it, faith is understood to justify us by an imputed righteousness only. That notion is the primary source of conflict and confusion over whether or not one can lose their salvation because when righteousness is reduced to having faith, and not in actually being and living righteously as a result of faith and the union with God that it establishes, then the door is open to believing that no degree of righteousness or refraining from sin is necessary in order to be saved. We just have to beleive...in whatever set of truths we think are required. Historically it was believed that, once freely justified, we're now able to overcome the sin that otherwise condemns us, to finally walk in the light, and that we're obligated to do just that to the best we can, by the Spirit, now under grace. I believe in baptismal regeneration simply because Jesus said to do it and the church has known no other way or belief for centuries, even as it acknowledges that God certainly isn't bound to such a command if someone is unable to act upon it. |
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nahum
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Post by nahum on Aug 18, 2022 9:59:31 GMT -8
Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines. These are both different "gospels" and they impact on the true Gospel. |
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any day.
