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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 22, 2022 23:30:31 GMT -8
Yes, I'm Catholic, formerly Protestant. I've done my homework. Anyway, the church has consistently understood that she's the new Israel, with those promises applying to her. Either way, do you deny that the new Covenant is for all humankind, Jews and Gentiles alike? And if you are under that covenant, as I'm assuming you believe yourself to be, does that mean that you never sin personally, in thought, word, and deed? BTW, I'd rather listen to the church that God established than some private intepretations of an individual. Paul warns us that if we ADD to his Gospel Of Grace, as the Catholics do with their Seven Sacraments, etc, we become “ Fallen From Grace” ......this not “ catholic bashing”, because 90 % Of the Protestant Churches are no better—- at least the Romanists don’t try to hide it.... Many out there need to pray earnestly that “ Falling from Grace” is not tantamount to Damnation.....If That is the case , that “ Narrow Path” That Jesus referred to is “ really” gonna be Narrow.... |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 20:56:27 GMT -8
Yes, I'm Catholic, formerly Protestant. I've done my homework. Anyway, the church has consistently understood that she's the new Israel, with those promises applying to her. Either way, do you deny that the new Covenant is for all humankind, Jews and Gentiles alike? And if you are under that covenant, as I'm assuming you believe yourself to be, does that mean that you never sin personally, in thought, word, and deed? BTW, I'd rather listen to the church that God established than some private intepretations of an individual. Paul warns us that if we ADD to his Gospel Of Grace, as the Catholics do with their Seven Sacraments, etc, we become “ Fallen From Grace” ......this not “ catholic bashing”, because 90 % Of the Protestant Churches are no better—- at least the Romanists don’t try to hide it.... Many out there need to pray earnestly that “ Falling from Grace” is not tantamount to Damnation.....If That is the case , that “ Narrow Path” That Jesus referred to is “ really” gonna be Narrow.... Willfully ignorant. Not courageous enough to seek the truth for yourself. Bravo. Good show. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:00:20 GMT -8
Jer 31 is about the new covenant, which applies to us all Heb (8 & 10). The church has long taught that absolute sinless perfection is not possible in this life, and yet neither is wanton grave sin, the kind that leads to death, i.e. separation from God, acceptable: "The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." Gal 6:7-8 "Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13 We don't earn our state of justice but we can certainly lose or forfeit it, by living unjustly, not by the Spirit. The new covenant involves both the forgiveness of sin/unrighteousness and the implanting of righteousness, God's seed, in us. Again, it was never intended as a reprieve from man's obligation to be righteous but the very means to finally a chieve it, the right way, God's way, by virtue of union with Him rather than reliance on ourselves, under the law. "Apart from Me you can do nothing" John 15:5. There are many encouraging words, some hyperbole, in Scripture about our salvation but then balanced by warnings and admonitions to persevere, be vigilant, be holy, refrain from sin, invest ones talents, put to death the deeds of the flesh, do good, obey the commandments, with eternal life at stake. We're fully equipped as believers to do the right thing in the overall scheme of things, to walk in the light, but we may not, as well. It doesn't end with faith; it begins there. So sanctification is simply a journey that begins at justification, both part and parcel of the same process, the same journey. We can jump ship at any time. But most Christians already know and live that way intuitively-regardless of professed theology. Jeremiah 31 is a prophecy of the return of Isreal. Paul mentions it in Romans 11, While the church certainly can benefit from it,. it was not written to the church You can;t claim we do not earn our state of justice then claim we can basically unearn it. That is a contradiction of terms, If we can unearn it, we certainly must earn it.. Sanctification is two part. I am sanctified (set apart) positionally as being in christ. this is equal to justification. I am being sanctified (set apart) daily as I walk with christ and learn in my life. Yet even then, it is him who sanctifies.. He takes us through the things we need to help grow us as the good book says. By one offering he perfected forever (justification/positional sanctifiation) those who are being sanctified. Glorification is the part where our positional sanctification and conditional sanctification meet. where they are euql. Where god's work is complete. Our conditional sanctification will never meet our positional in this lifetime.. so we can not earn salvation by trying to meet that standard.. Which is perfection.. Nonsense, one is either righteous/holy- or they're not. Anything else would be pretense, hypocrisy. God's not interestsd in that, in one's 'positional status'. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:11:35 GMT -8
Yes, I'm Catholic, formerly Protestant. I've done my homework. Anyway, the church has consistently understood that she's the new Israel, with those promises applying to her. Either way, do you deny that the new Covenant is for all humankind, Jews and Gentiles alike? And if you are under that covenant, as I'm assuming you believe yourself to be, does that mean that you never sin personally, in thought, word, and deed? BTW, I'd rather listen to the church that God established than some private intepretations of an individual. If the promises that applied to isreal belonged to the roman church. She would be living in Israel today. Whe would be seen as housed in jerusalem, Not in Rome, where her pagan roots were founded. The promisies to Israel are seen to be universal, spiritual, ultimatley not regarding a physical kingdom. The roots of the Catholic church are the roots of Christianity. You wouldn't be Christian apart from her. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 23, 2022 21:27:00 GMT -8
Paul warns us that if we ADD to his Gospel Of Grace, as the Catholics do with their Seven Sacraments, etc, we become “ Fallen From Grace” ......this not “ catholic bashing”, because 90 % Of the Protestant Churches are no better—- at least the Romanists don’t try to hide it.... Many out there need to pray earnestly that “ Falling from Grace” is not tantamount to Damnation.....If That is the case , that “ Narrow Path” That Jesus referred to is “ really” gonna be Narrow.... Willfully ignorant. Not courageous enough to seek the truth for yourself. Bravo. Good show. Lol—— You * GOT * to be kidding!!!!! You say that am not “ courageous enough” to “ seek the truth for myself?” ..... I belong to NO Denomination, yet YOUR “ TRUTH” is Anything that the Pope “ spoon- feeds” you !!! Talk about a “ Good Show?”....... haha.....Thanks for giving us all such a great laugh! How ‘ bout for your next show of “Willful Ignorance” we all sit at your feet and let you enlighten us about the Fantasyland Of Purgatory or maybe your “Take” On Mary - Worship, as you Boldly “ Think for Yourself”....... Lol....... |
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Post by hansen on Aug 23, 2022 21:42:35 GMT -8
Willfully ignorant. Not courageous enough to seek the truth for yourself. Bravo. Good show. Lol—— You * GOT * to be kidding!!!!! You say that am not “ courageous enough” to “ seek the truth for myself?” ..... I belong to NO Denomination, yet YOUR “ TRUTH” is Anything that the Pope “ spoon- feeds” you !!! Talk about a “ Good Show?”....... haha.....Thanks for giving us all such a great laugh! How ‘ bout for your next show of “Willful Ignorance” we all sit at your feet and let you enlighten us about the Fantasyland Of Purgatory or maybe your “Take” On Mary - Worship, as you Boldly “ Think for Yourself”....... Lol....... 90% of what you say is nothing but a reguritation of Reformed errors and private misinterpreations, and more errorrs that cropped up on top of that along the way. Courage means to study history, the history of your faith, the history of the church and the councils and the ECFs wherever it leads rather than the pop mythogly and pap you've been force-fed in this society whether you realize it or not. Private interpretation is nothing to be proud of incidentally, according to Scripture-and will inevitably lead to error. The Bereans and the Ethiopian Eunuch required input, from Christ's disciples, in order to garner understanding of Scripture. Anyway, an objective and open desire and quest for truth should guide a Chrstian. Takes courage tho. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 1:56:14 GMT -8
If the promises that applied to isreal belonged to the roman church. She would be living in Israel today. Whe would be seen as housed in jerusalem, Not in Rome, where her pagan roots were founded. The promisies to Israel are seen to be universal, spiritual, ultimatley not regarding a physical kingdom. The roots of the Catholic church are the roots of Christianity. You wouldn't be Christian apart from her. Wow. Just wow, Well this explains everything. My friend, If the roman church was never created in the 3rd century. The gospel would still have gotten to me.. The jews started the church in Jerusalem. Paul carried to the gentiles. They are the reason I am saved, Not some pagan church that tok Gods word and twisted it to look more jewish and pagan, who resembled nothing of the NT church. forgive me for being so blunt. But I seriously worry about you.. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 6:33:07 GMT -8
The promisies to Israel are seen to be universal, spiritual, ultimatley not regarding a physical kingdom. The roots of the Catholic church are the roots of Christianity. You wouldn't be Christian apart from her. Wow. Just wow, Well this explains everything. My friend, If the roman church was never created in the 3rd century. The gospel would still have gotten to me.. The jews started the church in Jerusalem. Paul carried to the gentiles. They are the reason I am saved, Not some pagan church that tok Gods word and twisted it to look more jewish and pagan, who resembled nothing of the NT church. forgive me for being so blunt. But I seriously worry about you.. I've been worred about Christinaity for a long time-ansd you exemply its confusion. Even if you lack the desire for truth enough to seek it for yourself, wherever it leads, then consider the non-big bad Catholic churches such as the Eastern Orthodox, who also don't follow in your folly on justifcation. Without that church, without the whole church that Christ established wherever it landed, you woudn't even have the new tesatasment to misinterpret. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 7:32:10 GMT -8
hansen The promisies to Israel are seen to be universal, spiritual, ultimatley not regarding a physical kingdom. The roots of the Catholic church are the roots of Christianity. You wouldn't be Christian apart from her. Really sorry to inform you that Dr Brown and Rabbi Tovia would not agree with you. We need Eastern Jewish commentaries which I believe is concealed from the "evangelizing" Christians...Rabbinical writings and Jewish dictionaries, customs and manners. Here's a question for you. How do the Rabbis view eternal life? J. Extra-biblcal studies can certianly be helpful and profitable but our revelation comes from Christ, and His church is responsible for receiving, understanding, preserving, and passing on that revelation. And leaders back in Jesus's day didn't agree on eternal life for that matter, with some denying an afterlife altogether. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 8:17:13 GMT -8
Extra-biblcal studies can certianly be helpful and profitable but our revelation comes from Christ, and His church is responsible for receiving, understanding, preserving, and passing on that revelation. And leaders back in Jesus's day didn't agree on eternal life for that matter, with some denying an afterlife altogether. What would you do should you meet a Orthodox Jew or a Muslim who don't believe in the New Testament at all? How would you go about proving the existence of Christ in the Torah? I remember being in a intense six months long debate against imams, Arabic imām (“leader,” “model”), and had to show them in the Quran that Christ Jesus has come, was crucified and buried and rose again. So far all I see is squabbles on water baptisms, laws, sabbaths, from a Western viewpoint, not edifying at all. Would you agree? J. That's fine, we use whatever reaonable resources that are availble for apologetcis. Josephus and Pliny come to mind. Archaelogy as well. But I wouldn't base my faith on them or the Quran, for example. |
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Post by civic on Aug 24, 2022 8:24:47 GMT -8
What would you do should you meet a Orthodox Jew or a Muslim who don't believe in the New Testament at all? How would you go about proving the existence of Christ in the Torah? I remember being in a intense six months long debate against imams, Arabic imām (“leader,” “model”), and had to show them in the Quran that Christ Jesus has come, was crucified and buried and rose again. So far all I see is squabbles on water baptisms, laws, sabbaths, from a Western viewpoint, not edifying at all. Would you agree? J. That's fine, we use whatever reaonable resources that are availble for apologetcis. Josephus and Pliny come to mind. Archaelogy as well. But I wouldn't base my faith on them or the Quran, for example. Ditto |
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Post by civic on Aug 24, 2022 8:38:18 GMT -8
Thanks I have several Jewish resources in my logos electronic library |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 24, 2022 8:50:10 GMT -8
Wow. Just wow, Well this explains everything. My friend, If the roman church was never created in the 3rd century. The gospel would still have gotten to me.. The jews started the church in Jerusalem. Paul carried to the gentiles. They are the reason I am saved, Not some pagan church that tok Gods word and twisted it to look more jewish and pagan, who resembled nothing of the NT church. forgive me for being so blunt. But I seriously worry about you.. I've been worred about Christinaity for a long time-ansd you exemply its confusion. Even if you lack the desire for truth enough to seek it for yourself, wherever it leads, then consider the non-big bad Catholic churches such as the Eastern Orthodox, who also don't follow in your folly on justifcation. Without that church, without the whole church that Christ established wherever it landed, you woudn't even have the new tesatasment to misinterpret. Sorry my friend, God is not the author of confusion. The Greek Orthodox Church is just the Catholic Church h minus the Pope. Niether of those two churches even closely resemble the New Testament church. I desire truth, thats why I stopped listening to men, and started to research the word of God.. My eternity is far to long to place myself in the hands of men. If nothing, The jewish church should have been a major warning that those in charge should not be trusted, The people who followed the religious elite of the jewish church followed them to hell I refuse to make that mistake. God told me that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for reproof. Correction and instruction in righteousness. you want to follow men? Feel free. I will do as God said and test all spirits.. I trusted my church growing up. And found out later alot of what they taught me was wrong.. If I did not do my research I would still be following along in their sins.. and false teachings |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 11:46:25 GMT -8
I've been worred about Christinaity for a long time-ansd you exemply its confusion. Even if you lack the desire for truth enough to seek it for yourself, wherever it leads, then consider the non-big bad Catholic churches such as the Eastern Orthodox, who also don't follow in your folly on justifcation. Without that church, without the whole church that Christ established wherever it landed, you woudn't even have the new tesatasment to misinterpret. Sorry my friend, God is not the author of confusion. The Greek Orthodox Church is just the Catholic Church h minus the Pope. Niether of those two churches even closely resemble the New Testament church. I desire truth, thats why I stopped listening to men, and started to research the word of God.. Sorry my friend, but humans are the author of confusion, and you've been listening to yourself via your private interpretations. The jargon is strikingly similar to others who've come before you, however, as a novelty beginning in the last few centuries. Coincidental, I guess. And, in truth, you don't really know what the ancuent churches taught with any depth through any responsible research, or what all they've actually been engaged in. But I'll get into that later. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 24, 2022 15:49:45 GMT -8
Lol—— You * GOT * to be kidding!!!!! You say that am not “ courageous enough” to “ seek the truth for myself?” ..... I belong to NO Denomination, yet YOUR “ TRUTH” is Anything that the Pope “ spoon- feeds” you !!! Talk about a “ Good Show?”....... haha.....Thanks for giving us all such a great laugh! How ‘ bout for your next show of “Willful Ignorance” we all sit at your feet and let you enlighten us about the Fantasyland Of Purgatory or maybe your “Take” On Mary - Worship, as you Boldly “ Think for Yourself”....... Lol....... 90% of what you say is nothing but a reguritation of Reformed errors and private misinterpreations, and more errorrs that cropped up on top of that along the way. Courage means to study history, the history of your faith, the history of the church and the councils and the ECFs wherever it leads rather than the pop mythogly and pap you've been force-fed in this society whether you realize it or not. Private interpretation is nothing to be proud of incidentally, according to Scripture-and will inevitably lead to error. The Bereans and the Ethiopian Eunuch required input, from Christ's disciples, in order to garner understanding of Scripture. Anyway, an objective and open desire and quest for truth should guide a Chrstian. Takes courage tho. I have been a very serious Student Of the Bible for over 40 years......Hours of study practically everyday.....that makes me knowledgeable about God's Word, Yet in and if itself, it does not make more “ Doctrinally Correct” than somebody that studied the Bible for two hours! The important thing is this—- has God “ opened your heart” and given you “ eyes to see” and “ ears to hear”..... Most importantly , has God blessed you by showing you how to Sabbath, or REST in Paul’s Gospel? That means that you REST or take Total Assurance in the FINISHED WORK of the Cross.......If you ADD * ANYTHING* to NOTHING but the Blood Of Jesus for your Salvation, you are “ Fallen From Grace” and “ Severed from Christ” .....serious stuff.....You Catholics ADD to Christ’s Finished Work with your Seven Sacraments and MANY other things..... God says in Hebrews 3 and 4 that if you do not REST in the Gospel, which means that you feel NO NEED to ADD to it , in essence making yourself the “ Co- Savior”—- He says that you are Guilty Of “ Disobedience and Unbelief!”.....and you are blind to it..... I have completed my “ quest for Truth”......I don’t know everything , but I “DO” know this....Give a man a Bible.....let him read it from cover to cover by himself.....don't tell him Anything.....don't try give him any help, and I will GUARANTEE you that he will not come out a “ catholic”......THAT takes a Sinful Pope, a Blind adherence to whatever a Sinful Priest tells you to do and Centuries Of Perverting Paul’s Gospel That Saves if merely Believed....All you catholic add-ons —-Your Make- Believe Purgatory and your Mary- Worship are straight from Hell.... It takes “ Courage” to admit that you are a Hopeless and Depraved Lost Sinner....It takes even MORE Courage to put your **TOTAL ** TRUST and FAITH in Somebody that you have never seen and if that “ Somebody” does not keep His Word.....you are Doomed! YOUR Faith is not in Jesus......it’s in yourself.. Don't lecture me on “ Faith and Courage “——- “ Your “Faith” is in a Pope and a Priest and a Perverted Church Doctrine But MAINLY in YOURSELF—- Here is what I have learned in 40+ years of serious and God - Lead Study.......I learned that the Old Hymn that you and others sing like hypocrites every Sunday actually got it Right——it really “ IS” * NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD!” —— NOTHING. Remember you heard it here first, after you “ Boasted” of all that “ YOU” did for God and get carted away to a very unpleasant and hot place—— and I’m not talking about your Satan- Inspired Pretend World Of Purgatory....The very thought of which Spits on the Blood Of Jesus! May God help you.... |
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