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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 16:22:24 GMT -8
90% of what you say is nothing but a reguritation of Reformed errors and private misinterpreations, and more errorrs that cropped up on top of that along the way. Courage means to study history, the history of your faith, the history of the church and the councils and the ECFs wherever it leads rather than the pop mythogly and pap you've been force-fed in this society whether you realize it or not. Private interpretation is nothing to be proud of incidentally, according to Scripture-and will inevitably lead to error. The Bereans and the Ethiopian Eunuch required input, from Christ's disciples, in order to garner understanding of Scripture. Anyway, an objective and open desire and quest for truth should guide a Chrstian. Takes courage tho. I have been a very serious Student Of the Bible for over 40 years......Hours of study practically everyday.....that makes me knowledgeable about God's Word, Yet in and if itself, it does not make more “ Doctrinally Correct” than somebody that studied the Bible for two hours! The important thing is this—- has God “ opened your heart” and given you “ eyes to see” and “ ears to hear”..... Most importantly , has God blessed you by showing you how to Sabbath, or REST in Paul’s Gospel? That means that you REST or take Total Assurance in the FINISHED WORK of the Cross.......If you ADD * ANYTHING* to NOTHING but the Blood Of Jesus for your Salvation, you are “ Fallen From Grace” and “ Severed from Christ” .....serious stuff.....You Catholics ADD to Christ’s Finished Work with your Seven Sacraments and MANY other things..... God says in Hebrews 3 and 4 that if you do not REST in the Gospel, which means that you feel NO NEED to ADD to it , in essence making yourself the “ Co- Savior”—- He says that you are Guilty Of “ Disobedience and Unbelief!”.....and you are blind to it..... I have completed my “ quest for Truth”......I don’t know everything , but I “DO” know this....Give a man a Bible.....let him read it from cover to cover by himself.....don't tell him Anything.....don't try give him any help, and I will GUARANTEE you that he will not come out a “ catholic”......THAT takes a Sinful Pope, a Blind adherence to whatever a Sinful Priest tells you to do and Centuries Of Perverting Paul’s Gospel That Saves if merely Believed....All you catholic add-ons —-Your Make- Believe Purgatory and your Mary- Worship are straight from Hell.... It takes “ Courage” to admit that you are a Hopeless and Depraved Lost Sinner....It takes even MORE Courage to put your **TOTAL ** TRUST and FAITH in Somebody that you have never seen and if that “ Somebody” does not keep His Word.....you are Doomed! YOUR Faith is not in Jesus......it’s in yourself.. Don't lecture me on “ Faith and Courage “——- “ Your “Faith” is in a Pope and a Priest and a Perverted Church Doctrine But MAINLY in YOURSELF—- Here is what I have learned in 40+ years of serious and God - Lead Study.......I learned that the Old Hymn that you and others sing like hypocrites every Sunday actually got it Right——it really “ IS” * NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD!” —— NOTHING. Remember you heard it here first, after you “ Boasted” of all that “ YOU” did for God and get carted away to a very unpleasant and hot place—— and I’m not talking about your Satan- Inspired Pretend World Of Purgatory....The very thought of which Spits on the Blood Of Jesus! May God help you.... I don't want to lecture but you speak out foolishly about that which you don't know, to the harm of the gospel. And, yes, it takes courage to look into the teachings for yourself-but you don't, probably won't. And I've been there too-but I did. And expert bible scholars who've studied diligently for years disagree with each other, as do many who claim to have had their eyes opened, led by the Spirit. And it's certainly not a matter of best exegesis: 'may the better exegete win'-at least until a better one comes along. Many of the concepts in the bible can only be properly or fully understood by someone who's been there, who's received the message at the beginning, as Paul did, as Philip did, when they explained the meaning of Scripture to the Bereans and the Ethiopian Eunuch who could not understand on their own. That's the same message the church claims to have received at the beginning, and has had a continuous legacy of transmission of to this day. People will sin; people will also do good. But despite either we’re all weak vessels and God will preserve His gospel intact regardless of us, which is what He established his church to do. It’s the message, not the messenger. Humans will always let you down to one degree or another, sometimes horribly. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 5:31:10 GMT -8
Sorry my friend, God is not the author of confusion. The Greek Orthodox Church is just the Catholic Church h minus the Pope. Niether of those two churches even closely resemble the New Testament church. I desire truth, thats why I stopped listening to men, and started to research the word of God.. Sorry my friend, but humans are the author of confusion, and you've been listening to yourself via your private interpretations. The jargon is strikingly similar to others who've come before you, however, as a novelty beginning in the last few centuries. Coincidental, I guess. And, in truth, you don't really know what the ancuent churches taught with any depth through any responsible research, or what all they've actually been engaged in. But I'll get into that later. this is funny. You state "humans are the author of confusion" yet you base your whole theology on what "humans" have taught you. this is what God says 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Acts 17:10-12 10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.
You want to attack me for being like the bereans. and testing what is said by scripture.. Well then I do not know what to say
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Post by makesends on Aug 25, 2022 5:57:39 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ. Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned) Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound. Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line.. Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential. There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved) same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 . Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks anyway.. You say, "If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound." The problem with that statement is that it depends on us, then, whether we are hellbound. Truth is, NONE of us get the gospel quite right. But God does, and it is he upon whom we have our faith —even the reality and strength of that faith is dependent on him. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 6:02:18 GMT -8
In my view there is only one essential topic. That is the gospel of christ. Paul said if anyone teaches a different gospel they are to be accursed (literally damned) Unlike topics like prophecy, speaking n tongues, denominations, end of times etc etc, which are not salvic. If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound. Calvinism and Arminianism are other non essential doctrines.. I agree with a poster in another thread. It is good to discuss. But when ones salvation comes into question, on these topics. Then one has crossed the line.. Sadly. That means some things which people love to argue (like baptismal regeneration. Or the OSAS/NOSAS debate, in my view are essential. There is only one gospel. if baptism is required. Then those who are not baptised in order to be saved, cannot be saved because they have failed to receive the one true gospel (the opposite is true if water baptism is not required to be saved) same goes with OSAS/NOSAS.. they both can not be true. And both are based on ones perception of what the gospel is Sadly. In all of my years of hearing this particular debate. I see most who reject OSAS do so because they reject calvinism. And it appears they believe that if they accept it, they would be excepting calvinism, The same goes for NOSAS.. a calvinist leaning person would never accept NOSAS, because they would have to admit they are wrong, and maybe these arminians are correct. Amazingly, I never heard the term OSAS until I joined a christian chat about 8 years ago. I am 57 years old. And have been going to church since I was 5 . Thats also why I try not to argue OSAS or NOSAS.. or denominationalsim, or the like. I want to discuss the word of God. Not what this group or that group thinks anyway.. You say, "If we get the gospel wrong. We are hellbound." The problem with that statement is that it depends on us, then, whether we are hellbound. Truth is, NONE of us get the gospel quite right. But God does, and it is he upon whom we have our faith —even the reality and strength of that faith is dependent on him. If non of us get the gospel right. then non of us have any hope. How can we claim we entrust our eternity to the gospel. if we do not even know what the gospel is? |
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Post by hansen on Aug 25, 2022 7:34:39 GMT -8
Sorry my friend, but humans are the author of confusion, and you've been listening to yourself via your private interpretations. The jargon is strikingly similar to others who've come before you, however, as a novelty beginning in the last few centuries. Coincidental, I guess. And, in truth, you don't really know what the ancuent churches taught with any depth through any responsible research, or what all they've actually been engaged in. But I'll get into that later. this is funny. You state "humans are the author of confusion" yet you base your whole theology on what "humans" have taught you. this is what God says 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Acts 17:10-12 10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.
You want to attack me for being like the bereans. and testing what is said by scripture.. Well then I do not know what to say
God nonetheless uses weak vessels to spread His message, such as Paul and Philip with regard to the Bereans and Ethiopian Eunuch who couldn't comprehend the very Scripture that Paul was referring to in 2 Tim, on their own. When you privately interpret Scripture you're being taught by a human: yourself, who will then quite often disagree with other individuals interpreting Scripture, who also consider themselves to be rightly dividing the Word and led by the Spirit in doing so. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 8:12:23 GMT -8
this is funny. You state "humans are the author of confusion" yet you base your whole theology on what "humans" have taught you. this is what God says 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Acts 17:10-12 10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.
You want to attack me for being like the bereans. and testing what is said by scripture.. Well then I do not know what to say
God nonetheless uses weak vessels to spread His message, such as Paul and Philip with regard to the Bereans and Ethiopian Eunuch who couldn't comprehend the very Scripture that Paul was referring to in 2 Tim, on their own. When you privately interpret Scripture you're being taught by a human: yourself, who will then quite often disagree with other individuals interpreting Scripture, who also consider themselves to be rightly dividing the Word and led by the Spirit in doing so. the bereans did not blindly listen to paul. they searched the scriptures to confirm what he said was what the scripture said. I do as they do. You do not. You listen to what you are told. and told if you do not agree with the MEN who teach you. You have privately interpreted the word. By definition. that is a cult. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 25, 2022 8:28:25 GMT -8
God nonetheless uses weak vessels to spread His message, such as Paul and Philip with regard to the Bereans and Ethiopian Eunuch who couldn't comprehend the very Scripture that Paul was referring to in 2 Tim, on their own. When you privately interpret Scripture you're being taught by a human: yourself, who will then quite often disagree with other individuals interpreting Scripture, who also consider themselves to be rightly dividing the Word and led by the Spirit in doing so. the bereans did not blindly listen to paul. they searched the scriptures to confirm what he said was what the scripture said. I do as they do. You do not. You listen to what you are told. and told if you do not agree with the MEN who teach you. You have privately interpreted the word. By definition. that is a cult. And that's a statement of sheer...ignorance. Again, you don't even really know what Catholicism teaches. And you happen to agree with many doctrines handed down by Reformers, doctrines that you'd never come up with on your own anyway, truth be understood. And the Bereans, diligently studious as they were, and as you are, still would not have understood without Paul's input. And any Catholic who's not Catholic in name only doesn't blindly listen to that church either, but seeks and studies, on their own, and finds themselves agreeing. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 8:58:14 GMT -8
the bereans did not blindly listen to paul. they searched the scriptures to confirm what he said was what the scripture said. I do as they do. You do not. You listen to what you are told. and told if you do not agree with the MEN who teach you. You have privately interpreted the word. By definition. that is a cult. And that's a statement of sheer...ignorance. Again, you don't even really know what Catholicism teaches. And you happen to agree with many doctrines handed down by Reformers, doctrines that you'd never come up with on your own anyway, truth be understood. And the Bereans, diligently studious as they were, and as you are, still would not have understood without Paul's input. And any Catholic who's not Catholic in name only doesn't blindly listen to that church either, but seeks and studies, on their own, and finds themselves agreeing. 1. Prove I do not know what the Catholics teach. 2. I believe alot of what the Catholics teach. that does not make me catholic or a reformer. I do not consider myself protestant. I do not protest any church. so you can back that out of your vocabulary when talking with me 3. Scripture does NOT SAY they did not understand what Paul said. It says they listened to what he said, then looked up scripture to confirm what he said was true (which means THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE SAID QUITE WELL) If you would actually read what is said, you would see this..You have to change what was said, or add to the word what was said about the bereans to come up with any conclusion they did not understand paul. This is what happens when you listen to men.. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 9:38:57 GMT -8
1. Prove I do not know what the Catholics teach. 2. I believe alot of what the Catholics teach. that does not make me catholic or a reformer. I do not consider myself protestant. I do not protest any church. so you can back that out of your vocabulary when talking with me 3. Scripture does NOT SAY they did not understand what Paul said. It says they listened to what he said, then looked up scripture to confirm what he said was true (which means THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE SAID QUITE WELL) If you would actually read what is said, you would see this..You have to change what was said, or add to the word what was said about the bereans to come up with any conclusion they did not understand paul. This is what happens when you listen to men.. I am calm bro. I just highlighted a few words so the user could look in the actual passage and then see what I highlighted. |
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Post by eternallygrateful on Aug 25, 2022 10:06:56 GMT -8
I am calm bro. I just highlighted a few words so the user could look in the actual passage and then see what I highlighted. I am home eating lunch now. Wish I could stay home and take a nap!! But work calls |
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Post by hansen on Aug 25, 2022 17:47:07 GMT -8
1. Prove I do not know what the Catholics teach. 2. I believe alot of what the Catholics teach. that does not make me catholic or a reformer. I do not consider myself protestant. I do not protest any church. so you can back that out of your vocabulary when talking with me 3. Scripture does NOT SAY they did not understand what Paul said. It says they listened to what he said, then looked up scripture to confirm what he said was true (which means THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE SAID QUITE WELL) If you would actually read what is said, you would see this..You have to change what was said, or add to the word what was said about the bereans to come up with any conclusion they did not understand paul. This is what happens when you listen to men.. 1) If I've been presumptous I apologize but if you beleive in OSAS, eternal security, faith alone, especially depending on how it's qualified, Sola Scriptura, then you'd be out of sync with basic doctrine on justification of the EO and Catholic, churches, the ancient churches in general, and the early church fathers. Been busy, harvest time now but I'll try to lay out basic Catholic teaching when I can and see how it all flies here. 2) Sorry, I get a bit sensitive, overreactive I'm sure as we often tend to be big targets-not all without reason. But I've come, to my own surprise, to really believe that the Catholic understanding is a superior one-and of greatest benefit to humankind. I was once quite anti-Catholic myself incidentally. 3) I didn't say they didn't understand Paul. They didn't understand Scripture without Paul, without Christ's disciples and the revelation and teachings they possessed. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 25, 2022 18:14:38 GMT -8
1) If I've been presumptous I apologize but if you beleive in OSAS, eternal security, faith alone, especially depending on how it's qualified, Sola Scriptura, then you'd be out of sync with basic doctrine on justification of the EO and Catholic, churches, the ancient churches in general, and the early church fathers. Been busy, harvest time now but I'll try to lay out basic Catholic teaching when I can and see how it all flies here. 2) Sorry, I get a bit sensitive, overreactive I'm sure as we often tend to be big targets-not all without reason. But I've come, to my own surprise, to really believe that the Catholic understanding is a superior one-and of greatest benefit to humankind. I was once quite anti-Catholic myself incidentally. 3) I didn't say they didn't understand Paul. They didn't understand Scripture without Paul, without Christ's disciples and the revelation and teachings they possessed. Paul said in Galatians that if one ADDS to the Gospel That He preached—- and catholic doctrine reeks with Gospel Additions —- they would be “ Fallen From Grace”.......Convince me that they are NOT! You can’t.....all that you can REALLY do is pray to God that Falling from Grace is not equal to Damnation....Intelligent men disagree.... |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 26, 2022 23:56:33 GMT -8
the bereans did not blindly listen to paul. they searched the scriptures to confirm what he said was what the scripture said. I do as they do. You do not. You listen to what you are told. and told if you do not agree with the MEN who teach you. You have privately interpreted the word. By definition. that is a cult. And that's a statement of sheer...ignorance. Again, you don't even really know what Catholicism teaches. And you happen to agree with many doctrines handed down by Reformers, doctrines that you'd never come up with on your own anyway, truth be understood. And the Bereans, diligently studious as they were, and as you are, still would not have understood without Paul's input. And any Catholic who's not Catholic in name only doesn't blindly listen to that church either, but seeks and studies, on their own, and finds themselves agreeing. Many Catholics * DO* Seek and Study.....that’s why People are leaving that Romanists Cult in droves ( and thankfully, many of my friends and relatives) The Catholics have a problem.....There are too many people on television that “ Get it Right” and I can picture a catholic man or woman on their way to their” church” , watching a little TV while they are putting on their shoes and socks, and run across somebody like Charles Stanley That actually teaches from the Bible and it will attract those with “ ears to hear” that can understand the Truth and then it’s just a matter of time before they abandon the Cult That has dedicated its existence “ Adding” to Pauls Gospel Of Grace , thereby putting them in the unenviable position of “ Falling From Grace” and being “ Severed from Christ” and not even understanding what it means.... |
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Post by rickstudies on Aug 27, 2022 15:19:22 GMT -8
And that's a statement of sheer...ignorance. Again, you don't even really know what Catholicism teaches. And you happen to agree with many doctrines handed down by Reformers, doctrines that you'd never come up with on your own anyway, truth be understood. And the Bereans, diligently studious as they were, and as you are, still would not have understood without Paul's input. And any Catholic who's not Catholic in name only doesn't blindly listen to that church either, but seeks and studies, on their own, and finds themselves agreeing. Many Catholics * DO* Seek and Study.....that’s why People are leaving that Romanists Cult in droves ( and thankfully, many of my friends and relatives) The Catholics have a problem.....There are too many people on television that “ Get it Right” and I can picture a catholic man or woman on their way to their” church” , watching a little TV while they are putting on their shoes and socks, and run across somebody like Charles Stanley That actually teaches from the Bible and it will attract those with “ ears to hear” that can understand the Truth and then it’s just a matter of time before they abandon the Cult That has dedicated its existence “ Adding” to Pauls Gospel Of Grace , thereby putting them in the unenviable position of “ Falling From Grace” and being “ Severed from Christ” and not even understanding what it means.... American churches are in decline and do not reflect the state of Christianity in the World. The body of Christ is alive and well and continues to grow in numbers every year. The Catholic church numbers 1.36 billion people and also grows in numbers every year at the present time. Let us pray the Lord recieves many from it`s ranks. |
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 27, 2022 16:18:04 GMT -8
The church I'm a member of is by no means in decline. We are growing by Leaps and Bounds. I've led a senior adult life group meeting there for the last 7 years and we never have a vacancy. I can't believe all the churches we've planted in the last 10 years. Take a look www.northcoastchurch.com/locations/ |
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