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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 21:17:10 GMT -8
Ah, the new gospel, what a profound and blessed revelalation to find that...we don't need to love God and neighbor! Bravo, Hurrah! We're free not from sin but free to sin, apparently, love being the antidote for sin as it were. That's a real load off. What a gospel, with a message that says, 'Christians don't need to be good!' You can't be good in fact; God makes trash. And LOVE “ IS” the True and Ultimate Cure for Sin ......Love is the “ ENGINE” that drives Obedience.....NOT the fear of dropping into Hell every time that we “ Stumble”...... Yes, love drives obedience, sinlessness, good works, doing God's will. It casts out fear. And so??? The law is there to tell us when were failing to love. God is there to give us the love that fulfills the law, the only right way. He shows it to us. Then if and when we begin to appreciate and value it, we begin to love in return. And that love is the essence of man's justice/righteousness as God is the essence of man's righteousness. We're either aligning with God in that righteousness, that love, or we're not. There's no make-believe righteousness that impresses God. Faith leads to the real thing in us, or we have no righteousness at all. Faith is the first righteous act for man, motivated by grace, then accepted and acted upon by us. Or not. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 24, 2022 21:41:52 GMT -8
Yes, love drives obedience, sinlessness, good works, doing God's will. It casts out fear. And so??? The law is there to tell us when were failing to love. God is there to give us the love that fulfills the law, the only right way. He shows it to us. Then if and when we begin to appreciate and value it, we begin to love in return. And that love is the essence of man's justice/righteousness as God is the essence of man's righteousness. The law that Jesus says must be obeyed in Matt 19:17 in order to enter life. The law that Paul tells us is fulfilled by love in Rom 13:10. The law that Paul tells us is holy, righteous, good, and spiritual in Rom 7. And they even give specific samplings of these very laws. And now you may know why the ancient churches continued to teach that observance of the ten comandments is obligatory for Christians, even as it's acknlwedged that such can only be done under grace, by the Spirit, with the love He pours into our hearts (Rom 5:5). |
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Post by hansen on Aug 25, 2022 2:28:45 GMT -8
“The scriptures says it clearly and that is why I don't want to get into a debate re "the law"...it brings division, not unity among the brethren and sisters.
J.”Uh, ok. Only among antinomians perhaps. Maybe truth just has a way of causing division but that’s only because some have broken from it. It’s quite simple, the moral law is holy and good and yet fallen man is not, so he can’t obey it no matter how hard he tries. The difference between fallen and unfallen is the difference between alienation from God and full knowledge and love of God, a subjugation of creature to Creator in a mutual bond of love. This love is the righteousness given to man as he turns to God in faith. It fulfills the law without needing to even hear it (Rom 2:13). The gospel is not about some kind of license to suddenly be free from the obligation to be righteous: that would make Christianity the ultimate satanic joke. The gospel is the means to achieve that very righteousness. Directives and obligations are not bad things. It’s not bad to be told not to kill, not to commit adultery, etc, as if righteousness, itself, has now become a bad thing-heaven forbid such a nonsensical thought. The problem is that, if I cannot refrain from these things, even in my heart to begin with, then the law is nothing but a curse; it can only serve to condemn me. Only God, not ME, can give me the righteousness required to begin to fulfill the law, and that righteousness is love. Man’s problem is disunion from his God; that’s the chief aspect of the state sometimes called “original sin”. Anyway, “ But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” Rom 3:21-22 The righteous requirements of the law must be met in us, but by the Spirit, the only authentic way: “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:1-4 Incidentally, the church carried down the teaching on the moral law, the Ten Commandments specifically, because that is what she received.
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 25, 2022 20:11:42 GMT -8
now you may know why the ancient churches continued to teach that observance of the ten comandments is obligatory for Christians
Nobody can keep the Commandments—If you trust in the Law you put yourself under the “ Curse” of the Law.......meaning That if you go down that Road to be “ Justified” , you have to keep all of them 24/7, and if you break just one, you are as guilty as a man who breaks them all
Theoretically , even if you “ Could” Keep the Law, you would find that you had just wasted your entire life....because, “ By The Law, NO FLESH will be JUSTIFIED” ......If you kept the Law you would have something to,Boast about....” Boasting” about ANYTHING other than the Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ for your Salvation is a certain way to find yourself in Hell....God set things up “ this” way—- Jesus gets 100% Of the Credit and Glory for your Salvation,and YOU get NONE.....Do you “ insist” that Jesus “ share” a little of that Glory with you? Keep on claiming that as the Angels drag your sorry butt to Hell.....
Please don’t wait until it is too late to realize the Truth Of The Song That says,” Its NOTHING of myself that I bring—- it’s ONLY to the Cross that I Cling ”
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 27, 2022 1:08:35 GMT -8
The law that Jesus says must be obeyed in Matt 19:17 in order to enter life. The law that Paul tells us is fulfilled by love in Rom 13:10. The law that Paul tells us is holy, righteous, good, and spiritual in Rom 7. And they even give specific samplings of these very laws. And now you may know why the ancient churches continued to teach that observance of the ten comandments is obligatory for Christians, even as it's acknlwedged that such can only be done under grace, by the Spirit, with the love He pours into our hearts (Rom 5:5). You are teaching a “False”Gospel......”YOU” say that “ observance of the Ten Commandments is Obligatory for Christians”...... the Bible says that we are” DEAD” to the Law......Paul declared that that the Law was “ weak and Useless”..... it had “NO POWER” to Save....No Man could be “ Justified “ By it......it actually caused Sin to INCREASE ......God “Found Fault” with it and the True Purpose Of it was to get you to “Shut Up” as to any pretense Of you keeping it! Paul said that the Law was only “good” if you understood how to use it.....you “ use it” by letting it lead you to Christ.....then you are Done with it....Why use The Law to guide you in your life now that you have something so much Better—— the Holy Spirit. If you stop trusting in the Law, which will Justify Nobody, even if you “ could” keep it ( and only an utter Fool thinks that he can) , yes, if you stop worrying about those 613 Laws and and do like Paul said, “ FINISH your Walk the same way that you STARTED it , by *FAITH*”.......You will “Find Yourself” Keeping the Law with much greater frequency than ever before....without even thinking about it....You gotta “ Let go and Let God”.....THAT takes Faith...got any? |
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Post by hansen on Aug 28, 2022 8:36:29 GMT -8
The law that Jesus says must be obeyed in Matt 19:17 in order to enter life. The law that Paul tells us is fulfilled by love in Rom 13:10. The law that Paul tells us is holy, righteous, good, and spiritual in Rom 7. And they even give specific samplings of these very laws. And now you may know why the ancient churches continued to teach that observance of the ten comandments is obligatory for Christians, even as it's acknlwedged that such can only be done under grace, by the Spirit, with the love He pours into our hearts (Rom 5:5). You are teaching a “False”Gospel......”YOU” say that “ observance of the Ten Commandments is Obligatory for Christians”...... the Bible says that we are” DEAD” to the Law......Paul declared that that the Law was “ weak and Useless”..... it had “NO POWER” to Save....No Man could be “ Justified “ By it......it actually caused Sin to INCREASE ......God “Found Fault” with it and the True Purpose Of it was to get you to “Shut Up” as to any pretense Of you keeping it! Paul said that the Law was only “good” if you understood how to use it.....you “ use it” by letting it lead you to Christ.....then you are Done with it....Why use The Law to guide you in your life now that you have something so much Better—— the Holy Spirit. If you stop trusting in the Law, which will Justify Nobody, even if you “ could” keep it ( and only an utter Fool thinks that he can) , yes, if you stop worrying about those 613 Laws and and do like Paul said, “ FINISH your Walk the same way that you STARTED it , by *FAITH*”.......You will “Find Yourself” Keeping the Law with much greater frequency than ever before....without even thinking about it....You gotta “ Let go and Let God”.....THAT takes Faith...got any? Well, just keep ignoring Scripture if you prefer. Think about what you're trying to say. Does "dead to the law" mean that we can now murder, commit adultery, etc? Or does it mean that we're no longer " under the law", no longer controlled by it and trying to keep it on our own, but controlled by a new righteousness instead (Rom 3:21-22) that refrains from murder and adultery even if we've never even heard the law. "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13 Again, faith is not an excuse from man's obligation to be righteous. I don't trust in the law to make me righteous; I trust in God to fulfill righteousness in me as He sees fit, to put His law in my mind and write it on my heart-something I can't do. That's the gospel. The Law isn't bad, nor is awareness of it bad only because it lets me know that I'm still sinning if I break it. It lets me know where I'm not righteous, where I'm failing to love, but no righteousness will ever be attained by self-righteousness, by my attempts at doing right apart from God, as if that were even possible. Dead to the law does not mean dead to righteousness. It means being alive to God; He'll do the rest as long as I keep that door open. |
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Post by Redeemed on Aug 28, 2022 15:50:12 GMT -8
Christianity begins with a Contrite or Repentant Heart....even the Phillipian Jailer who asked “ what must I do to be Saved” had the Contrite Heart that revealed to him that he was a sinner that needed help....he got the answer and it still holds true today.... “ Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ and you WILL be Saved ... That “ Contrite Heart” is a Gift from God and the Holy Spirit .... “ No man comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” ...The Spirit “ draws” firstly with The Conviction Of Sin .....We must all turn to Jesus to get Saved....who will ever turn to Jesus if they are Blind and don’t see the Need t do that. To me when the world beats you up enough and you get to this point: con·trite ADJECTIVE feeling or expressing remorse or penitence; affected by guilt: "a broken and a contrite heart" synonyms: remorseful · repentant · penitent · regretful · full of regret · sorry · apologetic · self-reproachful · rueful · sheepish · hangdog · ashamed · chastened · shamefaced · conscience-stricken · guilt-ridden · in sackcloth and ashes · compunctious and beat up from the feet up. Then you're ready to realize that you are a man or a woman in need of a savior at least I was. The way it worked for me was, I heard someone presenting the gospel and witnessing their faith and I had this feeling inside ... that had to be the answer I was looking for. It was, and His name was Jesus... that's my king. I'm sure God's hand was on the whole thing that day. |
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Post by hansen on Aug 28, 2022 18:33:49 GMT -8
Christianity begins with a Contrite or Repentant Heart....even the Phillipian Jailer who asked “ what must I do to be Saved” had the Contrite Heart that revealed to him that he was a sinner that needed help....he got the answer and it still holds true today.... “ Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ and you WILL be Saved ... That “ Contrite Heart” is a Gift from God and the Holy Spirit .... “ No man comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” ...The Spirit “ draws” firstly with The Conviction Of Sin .....We must all turn to Jesus to get Saved....who will ever turn to Jesus if they are Blind and don’t see the Need t do that. To me when the world beats you up enough and you get to this point: con·trite I like that. This world, where good and evil are both literally known, or directly experienced, we can get jaded by the sin/evil, whether as perpetrators or victims of it or, usually, as both to one degree or another, and in any case be all the better prepared to open the door when the ultimate Good comes knocking on it. This world is a sort of schoolhouse or place of formation as I see it, where God is cultivating people who might be finally ready to say yes to Him-instead of no as Adam did. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 28, 2022 20:02:15 GMT -8
Well, just keep ignoring Scripture if you prefer. Think about what you're trying to say. Does "dead to the law" mean that we can now murder, commit adultery, etc? Or does it mean that we're no longer "under the law", no longer controlled by it and trying to keep it on our own, but controlled by a new righteousness instead (Rom 3:21-22) that
refrains from murder and adultery even if we've never even heard the law.
When I say “ dead to the Law”, I am saying that the Law is “ useless” and therefore “ dead” in regard to thinking that you can do a Good Enough Job Of Keeping it to Justify your Entry into Heaven .....Resting in the Gospel accomplishes that ....
Do THAT and God will give you His Holy Spirit and your task of Commandment Keeping should improve as God Transforms you into the Image Of His Son...It happens AFTER you got Save by simply Believing the Gospel .....Your “Performance” should improve , but it has Nothing to do with Salvation...( THAT was a Free Gift, Remember?)
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Post by hansen on Aug 28, 2022 20:27:35 GMT -8
Well, just keep ignoring Scripture if you prefer. Think about what you're trying to say. Does "dead to the law" mean that we can now murder, commit adultery, etc? Or does it mean that we're no longer "under the law", no longer controlled by it and trying to keep it on our own, but controlled by a new righteousness instead (Rom 3:21-22) that refrains from murder and adultery even if we've never even heard the law. When I say “ dead to the Law”, I am saying that the Law is “ useless” and therefore “ dead” in regard to thinking that you can do a Good Enough Job Of Keeping it to Justify your Entry into Heaven .....Resting in the Gospel accomplishes that .... Do THAT and God will give you His Holy Spirit and your task of Commandment Keeping should improve as God Transforms you into the Image Of His Son...It happens AFTER you got Save by simply Believing the Gospel .....Your “Performance” should improve , but it has Nothing to do with Salvation...( THAT was a Free Gift, Remember?) It's all free, all grace beginning with justification, the basis of salvation. One can lose that state of justice, however, by living unjustly; your will remains intact. Sorry, but God wants you to use it as He would, as He does. Thats His point in all this, His goal for us. So the free gift can be rejected at any time; believers can return to the flesh- which is why we're warned not to, remember? |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 29, 2022 21:10:54 GMT -8
Well, just keep ignoring Scripture if you prefer. Think about what you're trying to say. Does "dead to the law" mean that we can now murder, commit adultery, etc? Or does it mean that we're no longer "under the law", no longer controlled by it and trying to keep it on our own, but controlled by a new righteousness instead (Rom 3:21-22) that refrains from murder and adultery even if we've never even heard the law. When I say “ dead to the Law”, I am saying that the Law is “ useless” and therefore “ dead” in regard to thinking that you can do a Good Enough Job Of Keeping it to Justify your Entry into Heaven .....Resting in the Gospel accomplishes that .... Do THAT and God will give you His Holy Spirit and your task of Commandment Keeping should improve as God Transforms you into the Image Of His Son...It happens AFTER you got Save by simply Believing the Gospel .....Your “Performance” should improve , but it has Nothing to do with Salvation...( THAT was a Free Gift, Remember?) It's all free, all grace beginning with justification, the basis of salvation. One can lose that state of justice, however, by living unjustly; your will remains intact. Sorry, but God wants you to use it as He would, as He does. Thats His point in all this, His goal for us. So the free gift can be rejected at any time; believers can return to the flesh- which is why we're warned not to, remember? Grace is “Unmerited Favor”, but in your version,It must be “merited” by “Living Justly”...... God's “goal” for us is to “ BELIEVE” in the One that He sent..... ”Salvation Is a GIFT—— Given to those that don’t WORK for it” ” The GIFTS of God are WITHOUT RECALL! |
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Post by hansen on Aug 29, 2022 21:14:53 GMT -8
It's all free, all grace beginning with justification, the basis of salvation. One can lose that state of justice, however, by living unjustly; your will remains intact. Sorry, but God wants you to use it as He would, as He does. Thats His point in all this, His goal for us. So the free gift can be rejected at any time; believers can return to the flesh- which is why we're warned not to, remember? Grace is “Unmerited Favor”, but in your version,It must be “merited” by “Living Justly”...... God's “goal” for us is to “ BELIEVE” in the One that He sent..... ”Salvation Is a GIFT—— Given to those that don’t WORK for it” ” The GIFTS of God are WITHOUT RECALL! Another error of the Reformers. Grace is more than unmerited favor. It’s the life and love of God in us, prompting and empowering us to do His will. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 31, 2022 0:16:54 GMT -8
Another error of the Reformers. Grace is more than unmerited favor. It’s the life and love of God in us, prompting and empowering us to do His will.
Words actually have meanings.....Grace is just another word for “Mercy” ....it is that Grace, or Mercy that it’s a trait of God that enablesHim take my sins and “ throw them into the depths of the sea”.....and on top of that , because of His incredible Mercy and Amazing Grace Heceven goes a step,farther—— HE REMEMBERS THEM NO MORE!”
The “ Life and Love of God” that “ empowers us” is the Holy Spirit......please stop bandying words about as if they are interchangeable and have no set meanings....
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Aug 31, 2022 0:29:10 GMT -8
So the free gift can be rejected at any time; believers can return to the flesh- which is why we're warned not to, remember?
So this “Free Gift” is not really “free” , is it ? You be a “good widdle boy” and don’t ever “ return to the Flesh” or you will forfeit your “gift” ......that is not a “Gift” .....That is a Trade—- a “tit-for- tat”, as they say......
Once you accept God’s Free Gift , I am sorry, my friend .....you are Stuck! Stuck because “NOTHING in the Created World “ can remove you from His Grip....that “ Nothing” that I just quoted? That would include YOU!
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Post by hansen on Sept 2, 2022 1:27:20 GMT -8
Another error of the Reformers. Grace is more than unmerited favor. It’s the life and love of God in us, prompting and empowering us to do His will. Words actually have meanings.....Grace is just another word for “Mercy” ....it is that Grace, or Mercy that it’s a trait of God that enablesHim take my sins and “ throw them into the depths of the sea”.....and on top of that , because of His incredible Mercy and Amazing Grace Heceven goes a step,farther—— HE REMEMBERS THEM NO MORE!” The “ Life and Love of God” that “ empowers us” is the Holy Spirit......please stop bandying words about as if they are interchangeable and have no set meanings.... Yes, words have meanings, and you misunderstand the meaning of the word grace. And the history behind that meaning. But facts can be confusing. |
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