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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 4, 2022 22:39:41 GMT -8
Here is the “ ESSENTIAL” , because Without * THIS * everything else was a Waste Of Time...
“ BELIEVE in the One that He sent”
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Post by hansen on Sept 5, 2022 5:42:43 GMT -8
God didn't make us bad-all creation was created good, in fact, according to Scripture, being the very handwiork of an infintely good Creator. Our unrighteousness consists in our alienation from that Creator, and this constitues an anomaly, an injustice/disorder, in all creation. We're reconciled with Him as we begin to know and believe in the true God as revealed by His Son. That's the most basic and primary right step for man, placing him back into right stead with God. And that's why faith pleases Him so immensely. From that reconciled state, from that union, true justice or righteousness take root and begin to blossom in man. Faith is a gift of grace, and yet a gift we could refuse and walk away from-at any point in time. If we don't like the obligation to be righteous, even by virtue of being coupled with Him now, then we don't like His gospel. His light burden is still too heavy for us. The law shows us that we cannot do it, on our own, "under the law". We don't even have that capacity; we lack any righteousness by ourselves; we only have self-righteousness which is an intruder, an imposter, not the real thing at all. The gospel shows us that we can do it, however, but only with Him, by the Spirit, under grace. God did not create man to sin; we just must be in fellowship with Him or else we're lost, sick, dead, existing in a state of disorder, sin, aka the state of "original sin". “I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:33-34 This passage of scripture has not been fulfilled yet nor is it applicable to any of your remarks. There are few Christians who'd agree with you that Jer 31 is not all about the new covenant, and thus applied to all humankind when the veil was torn. |
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Post by rickstudies on Sept 5, 2022 6:14:21 GMT -8
This passage of scripture has not been fulfilled yet nor is it applicable to any of your remarks. There are few Christians who'd agree with you that Jer 31 is not all about the new covenant, and thus applied to all humankind when the veil was torn. This is yet another example of you giving your opinion with no facts to back it up. Lot`s of Christians would agree with me. The condition for fulfillment of this passage is that "all shall know the lord." It says we willl no longer teach or say know the lord because everyone will know him. "from the least to the greatest" That condition does not exist at the present time nor has it existed at any time since the apostles. |
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Post by hansen on Sept 5, 2022 9:03:40 GMT -8
There are few Christians who'd agree with you that Jer 31 is not all about the new covenant, and thus applied to all humankind when the veil was torn. This is yet another example of you giving your opinion with no facts to back it up. Lot`s of Christians would agree with me. The condition for fulfillment of this passage is that "all shall know the lord." It says we willl no longer teach or say know the lord because everyone will know him. "from the least to the greatest" That condition does not exist at the present time nor has it existed at any time since the apostles. It exists for me. And it will exist for all who come to Him. Either way that's been the continous understanding of the church. We come to know God, directly, as revealed by His Son, although still not as fully as we'll know Him in the next life. But it begins here and as we know Him we come to believe: we become His people; He becomes our God, reversing the alienation from Him initiated for humanity by Adam. By virtue of that union He puts His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts. God is the only true source of righteousness for man. We have none apart from Him. |
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Post by resurrection33 on Sept 5, 2022 10:40:00 GMT -8
"In essentials, unity; In non-essentials, liberty; In all things, charity." I'm going to list a few essentials of Christianity. Do you agree with these and what others ones would you add to the list and why ? Thanks ! 1-The Trinity 2-The Deity of Christ 3-The humanity of Christ 4-The gospel 5-The bodily Resurrecting/Ascension and 2nd Coming of Christ 6-Salvation by grace through faith apart from works 7-Inerrancy and Inspiration of scripture 8-Love of the brethren demonstrating the fruit of the spirit 9-Being a disciple of Christ as per the gospels and great commission. 10- The depravity of man from the fall hope this helps !!! Love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 5, 2022 23:19:18 GMT -8
Love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves.
YOU don't do this, nor does anybody else —- unless your name was Jesus
If we’re capable in these weak bodies of Flesh to actually “ DO” these things , Jesus died in Vain....
Why not be honest and humble yourself and admit that you cant rise to the Standard that God demands if you choose to go the “performance route”: for your Salvation.....God has provided a “ way out” of trying to present your Performance as your means Of Justification...It’s not called the “ Good News” for no reason....It’s called “ The Gospel”...... read all about it in 1Cor15:1-4
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Post by hansen on Sept 6, 2022 8:31:18 GMT -8
Love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. YOU don't do this, nor does anybody else —- unless your name was Jesus If we’re capable in these weak bodies of Flesh to actually “ DO” these things , Jesus died in Vain.... Why not be honest and humble yourself and admit that you cant rise to the Standard that God demands if you choose to go the “performance route”: for your Salvation.....God has provided a “ way out” of trying to present your Performance as your means Of Justification...It’s not called the “ Good News” for no reason....It’s called “ The Gospel”...... read all about it in 1Cor15:1-4 If you don't love God and neighbor, even if not perfectly in this life, you won't being seeing Him in the next. Love is "the righteousness of God" that overcomes sin in us and the harm it does to neighbor and so exlcudes the penalty and condemnation for sin: death. Matthew 6:15 even says that if we don't forgive others God won't forgive us. If we don't show and return the love that we've been shown -and given- then why should we expect His kindness? |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 7, 2022 1:30:17 GMT -8
Love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. YOU don't do this, nor does anybody else —- unless your name was Jesus If we’re capable in these weak bodies of Flesh to actually “ DO” these things , Jesus died in Vain.... Why not be honest and humble yourself and admit that you cant rise to the Standard that God demands if you choose to go the “performance route”: for your Salvation.....God has provided a “ way out” of trying to present your Performance as your means Of Justification...It’s not called the “ Good News” for no reason....It’s called “ The Gospel”...... read all about it in 1Cor15:1-4 If you don't love God and neighbor, even if not perfectly in this life, you won't being seeing Him in the next. Love is "the righteousness of God" that overcomes sin in us and the harm it does to neighbor and so exlcudes the penalty and condemnation for sin: death. Matthew 6:15 even says that if we don't forgive others God won't forgive us. If we don't show and return the love that we've been shown -and given- then why should we expect His kindness? Jesus lived in the Age Of Law....That is why He preached Law.....Forgiveness was something that was done under a threat...If YOU don’t Forgive You won’t be Forgiven....the threat was Damnation.... This side of the Cross, we live in the Age Of Grace—— ALL of our sins are Forgiven....Even Before you ask.....The Impetus for forgiving is this—- If God can Forgive a Wretch like me why should I not forgive others? As with so many other things that are Holy Spirit driven, you now forgive because you “ Want” to—- NOT because you “ Have” to..... |
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Post by hansen on Sept 7, 2022 7:58:44 GMT -8
If you don't love God and neighbor, even if not perfectly in this life, you won't being seeing Him in the next. Love is "the righteousness of God" that overcomes sin in us and the harm it does to neighbor and so exlcudes the penalty and condemnation for sin: death. Matthew 6:15 even says that if we don't forgive others God won't forgive us. If we don't show and return the love that we've been shown -and given- then why should we expect His kindness? Jesus lived in the Age Of Law....That is why He preached Law.....Forgiveness was something that was done under a threat...If YOU don’t Forgive You won’t be Forgiven....the threat was Damnation.... This side of the Cross, we live in the Age Of Grace—— ALL of our sins are Forgiven....Even Before you ask.....The Impetus for forgiving is this—- If God can Forgive a Wretch like me why should I not forgive others? As with so many other things that are Holy Spirit driven, you now forgive because you “ Want” to—- NOT because you “ Have” to..... Sheez! Jesus did not come to preach the Old Covenant all over again-but to usher in something totally different: the New Covenant, the Way, the gospel, the Good News. And, yes, with this new way comes the gift of righteousness, by the Spirit, so that we'll WANT to do the right thing. BUT...the struggle isn't over because we won't always want to do the right thing, we won't always be moved by compassion and mercy to forgive as we should, we will struggle with sin and sometimes fail until good has totally won us over, meaning that we've been perfected in love and that arguably won't be fully accomplished until the next life. We don't depend on a declared righteousness, but on the real thing that Christ has wrought within us-and will continue to grow in is as we reamin in Him. Anything else is pretense. The essence of the new covenant is in His words from John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." But if we will not live righteously enough to satisfy God after all He's done for us including giving us the power, by the Spirit, to overcome sin, we won't see Him. He gives us the abilty now to do it, but the human will is never uninvolved; we can prove ourselves to be poor soil where His seed does not thrive as it's meant to. Your salvation is not secured in the absolute sense until He says so, when we meet Him. And that's perfectly fine because He'll do the right thing in any case, as always. So these words continue to hold true for the new Covenant as we're forgiven of sin and empowered to "go, and sin no more". We just need to get on board with Him, and remain on board, picking up our cross and following daily, born out by how we live our lives:
"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8
"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matt 22:37-40 "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22 Only God can give us that righeousness, that love that reflects His own image: "And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5 That's why there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus-Rom 8:1. That's why we can put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit and live- Rom 8:12-13. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2022 10:42:35 GMT -8
If you don't love God and neighbor, even if not perfectly in this life, you won't being seeing Him in the next. Love is "the righteousness of God" that overcomes sin in us and the harm it does to neighbor and so exlcudes the penalty and condemnation for sin: death. Matthew 6:15 even says that if we don't forgive others God won't forgive us. If we don't show and return the love that we've been shown -and given- then why should we expect His kindness? Jesus lived in the Age Of Law.... Hmmm.... Temporally that is true, but does Jesus live in any age? Do the various aspects being discussed (law, righteousness, forgiveness, grace, etc.) have any distinction for Jesus? |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 8, 2022 0:42:57 GMT -8
We don't depend on a declared righteousness, but on the real thing that Christ has wrought within us-and will continue to grow in is as we reamin in Him. Anything else is pretense. The essence of the new covenant is in His words from John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." But if we will not live righteously enough to satisfy God after all He's done for us including giving us the power, by the Spirit, to overcome sin, we won't see Him. He gives us the abilty now to do it, but the human will is never uninvolved; we can prove ourselves to be poor soil where His seed does not thrive as it's meant to. Your salvation is not secured in the absolute sense until He says so, when we meet Him. And that's perfectly fine because He'll do the right thing in any case, as always.
If you do not believe in “ Imputed” Righteousness , That would make the story of Abraham a lie.....it Would make “ Our” Salvation Stories Lies also......Read Romans chapter 4......
Paul talks about the Faith Of Abraham......” Abraham BELIEVED God and it was ** COUNTED” to him ( i.e. IMPUTED) as “RIGHTEOUSNESS”......Paul goes on to stress that this “ counted as righteous” business was not just meant for Abraham....These words were not meant for the sake of Abraham alone, but this “,Righteousness” will be counted toward ANYBODY that Trusts God the way that Abraham did! It will be counted , or “ imputed” to all of those that believe in Him that raised Jesus from the dead and who was delivered up to pay for our sins and then resurrected for our Justification
I would sure hate to have the burden to deny “ imputed Righteousness” after reading Romans 4......seems pretty clear to me....please show me how you get around it....and good luck......you’re gonna need it....
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 8, 2022 1:16:19 GMT -8
The essence of the new covenant is in His words from John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." But if we will not live righteously enough to
The “ Essence “ Of The Old Testament is “ DO!” ( DO these things and live!) ......the bad news is that nobody “DID”...... it’s why we need a Savior....
The “ Essence” Of The New Testament is “ DONE!”.......Everything Necessary to make you “ Right with God” and “ Fit for Heaven” was accomplished at the Cross.................all “ YOU” have to do is “ Cash- In “ on what has “ ALREADY” been accomplished by Christ shedding His Blood for you....How does one Cash- In to Receive this Wondrous Gift? Simply BELIEVE Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Paul by Jesus personally) that you can find in 1Cor15:1-4......
There are MANY things to be done “ AFTER” we Believe this Gospel and get Saved—— these things get done as God Transform us into the Image Of His Son....” HE will Finish this good work that He started” and it is HE that will “ keep us strong in order to endure and to be able to present us as BLAMELESS when we stand before Jesus on Judgement Day”....This is all Sanctification —- Don’t Confuse this Sanctification with Salvation....that Common and Confused Error has caused much trouble in the Church and “ still” does......For Salvation, the Old Hymn gets it right—— it really “ IS” ** Nothing But The Blood**....... everything else is “ Icing on the Cake”.... never neglect that “ icing” , butvmaje absolutely sure that you got the “ Cake”..... once again, that “ cake” is Resting in the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4....and make sure you don’t ADD to that Gospel lest you “ Fall From Grace”.....( Gal 5)....... God Bless...
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Post by hansen on Sept 8, 2022 9:31:19 GMT -8
The essence of the new covenant is in His words from John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." But if we will not live righteously enough to The “ Essence “ Of The Old Testament is “ DO!” ( DO these things and live!) ......the bad news is that nobody “DID”...... it’s why we need a Savior.... The “ Essence” Of The New Testament is “ DONE!”.......Everything Necessary to make you “ Right with God” and “ Fit for Heaven” was accomplished at the Cross.................all “ YOU” have to do is “ Cash- In “ on what has “ ALREADY” been accomplished by Christ shedding His Blood for you....How does one Cash- In to Receive this Wondrous Gift? Simply BELIEVE Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Paul by Jesus personally) that you can find in 1Cor15:1-4...... There are MANY things to be done “ AFTER” we Believe this Gospel and get Saved—— these things get done as God Transform us into the Image Of His Son....” HE will Finish this good work that He started” and it is HE that will “ keep us strong in order to endure and to be able to present us as BLAMELESS when we stand before Jesus on Judgement Day”....This is all Sanctification —- Don’t Confuse this Sanctification with Salvation....that Common and Confused Error has caused much trouble in the Church and “ still” does......For Salvation, the Old Hymn gets it right—— it really “ IS” ** Nothing But The Blood**....... everything else is “ Icing on the Cake”.... never neglect that “ icing” , butvmaje absolutely sure that you got the “ Cake”..... once again, that “ cake” is Resting in the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4....and make sure you don’t ADD to that Gospel lest you “ Fall From Grace”.....( Gal 5)....... God Bless... No. This is the fallacy of your novel doctrine. The essence of the OC is DO... yourself, based on the Law. The essence of the NC is DO...with ME, based on faith, whether or not you've even heard the law. The DO part is still in place. Prior to conversion to the true and living God, man is not with Him-and can do nothing, John 15:5. That's the basic difference and the reason for Jesus' coming, to reconcile us. Then we can and must live like it now. You just need to get the gospel straight. Read all of the bible. Study more, think for yourself, etc, etc, etc. Jesus didn't tell the adulterous woman, "Your sins are forgiven, go and do what you want, I got your back no matter what." "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me." Phil 4:13 "For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified." Rom 2:13 Jesus, simply, was not teaching the OC; He'd be contradicting the entire reason He came- and causing nothing but confusion. For example, there's only one way for a man to become clean-and only God can do it. Man cannot wash his own robes even though he's commanded to do that very thing in Rev 22:14. He does it by turning to God who forgives sin, takes them away, and empowers us by His Spirit to overcome them as we remain in Him and cooperate with His work. So Jesus can rightfully tell the Pharisees:
"Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23:26 Clean folks obey the law in truth-without needing to hear it. And if we stray: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 Righteousness still matters. |
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Post by bloodbought1953 on Sept 10, 2022 5:36:55 GMT -8
Righteousness still matters.
AMEN! ..... That’s why it’s *IMPUTED* to us......simply because we BELIEVE God— just like Abraham did...
You are exactly like Paul’s Jewish Brothers in Romans 10 who had a “ Zeal” for God , but “ Not according to Truth”—— those guys that Paul said we’re Lost, because they tried to be Justified “ THEIR” way ( Trusting in Their “Own” Righteousness ) instead of “ God’s “ Way, which was by Trusting in the Finished Work Of The Cross....
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Post by michaiah on Sept 10, 2022 5:47:25 GMT -8
bloodbought1953 said: Righteousness gets imputed to you upon first repenting, believing the gospel, and being baptized. BUT AFTERWARDS: “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” (1 John 2:29) Yes, they didn’t even get converted to begin with. So their righteousness continue to be filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).
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